Kargil : Indian Army's operation "Vijay" was ineffective

[GiG]

There was once an Indian on reddit that tried to dismiss our control of point 5353 by saying it won't last long when hit by a cruise missile.... [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

And then they say we make fun of them, even the American seals were not able to fight at the mountain slopes with all the airpower at their disposal

The lesson is when your enemy is dug in on the peaks the only logical way is to cut their supply lines else commit suicide. Pakistanis can cut the Indian supply lines from point 5353 at will can India do the same?

 

[VkdIndian]

Considering how you didn't even reply to his post speaks volumes about the stuff you know.

Go on. Refute what he said and refute what I said.

I will keep stating the facts

We hold 4 peaks today

We still patrol them

How is operation vijay a success

You are no body when it comes to defence and diplomatic matters.
The fact that you have not answered about even one of theses experts speakers volumes about your claim of being forthright and love of finding truth.

I am not worried about lies on this thread because entire international audience (each and everyone) agrees with the analysis of your very own Mushahid Hussain, Lt Gen Shahid Aziz, Lt Gen Majid Malik and Nazam Sethi.

It gives real pleasure and satisfaction to rub these facts into the faces of people like you.

Kargil was a watershed moment in Pakistan’s internal and external standing.
It lost the entire goodwill it had earned after India’s nuclear tests.
World saw and realised what kind of banana republic it is where army chief stabs its PM in the back.

Will you answer the comments made by Mushahid Hussain, Lt Gen Shahid Aziz, Lt Gen Majid Malik and Nazam Sethi.

You wouldn’t because “paer kaanp rahe hain aur maathe pe paseena hai”.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Going by your reasoning,
we can assume then that until such time that Israelis came to Indian rescue and showed how to use the Mirage effectively,
a mere ragtag infantry force opened a can of whop *** on mother india ?

Their entire northern light infantry was bombed to death by bofars,and mirage 2000 laser guided bombs.
They left 600 bodies,in kargil.mountains.

civilised professional armies, bring everyone home dead or alive.
ie Mel.Gibson ' we were soldiers ,
nobody gets,left behind
your air force was paralysed no bvrs.

not well planned by mushraff

 

[White and Green with M/S]

You are no body when it comes to defence and diplomatic matters.
The fact that you have not answered about even one of theses experts speakers volumes about your claim of being forthright and love of finding truth.

I am not worried about lies on this thread because entire international audience (each and everyone) agrees with the analysis of your very own Mushahid Hussain, Lt Gen Shahid Aziz, Lt Gen Majid Malik and Nazam Sethi.

It gives real pleasure and satisfaction to rub these facts into the faces of people like you.

Kargil was a watershed moment in Pakistan’s internal and external standing.
It lost the entire goodwill it had earned after India’s nuclear tests.
World saw and realised what kind of banana republic it is where army chief stabs its PM in the back.

Will you answer the comments made by Mushahid Hussain, Lt Gen Shahid Aziz, Lt Gen Majid Malik and Nazam Sethi.

You wouldn’t because “paer kaanp rahe hain aur maathe pe paseena hai”.

Ok you're superpower and you always win, now Happy

 

[Tornado23]

You are no body when it comes to defence and diplomatic matters.
The fact that you have not answered about even one of theses experts speakers volumes about your claim of being forthright and love of finding truth.

I am not worried about lies on this thread because entire international audience (each and everyone) agrees with the analysis of your very own Mushahid Hussain, Lt Gen Shahid Aziz, Lt Gen Majid Malik and Nazam Sethi.

It gives real pleasure and satisfaction to rub these facts into the faces of people like you.

Kargil was a watershed moment in Pakistan’s internal and external standing.
It lost the entire goodwill it had earned after India’s nuclear tests.
World saw and realised what kind of banana republic it is where army chief stabs its PM in the back.

Will you answer the comments made by Mushahid Hussain, Lt Gen Shahid Aziz, Lt Gen Majid Malik and Nazam Sethi.

You wouldn’t because “paer kaanp rahe hain aur maathe pe paseena hai”.

I shall reiterate again.

These aren't my points.

These are irrefutable facts.

We hold 4 peaks

We still patrol them today.

How was op vijay a success then?

Heck even if we held 1 peak that being 5353 then that will still mean op vijay is a failure.

You can keep saying I'm a no one and make out all these facts I am stating, I somehow made up by myself... Even though I didn't.

I just used your own people, praveen swahmy and RK Anand for these facts.

I mean you can say they are a nobody but considering how praveen swahmy has been an Indian defence analyst since before either of us were born, I believe its fair to say he knows what he is talking about


Refute us holding the 4 peaks

Refute us patrolling those peaks today

And prove how India managed to retake all the peaks. Not 1 or 2. ALL 8 peaks. Until then. Its a massive failure for India.

Neither objective was completed as is evident by praveen swahmy and RK Anands notes, your casualties were higher than that of Pakistan as is evident by the official count held by Pakistan of its shaheed (453) where as yours is still yet to see the light of day. If we do take your propaganda figure into account its still higher (549+) than ours.

You had kargil since 71. We didn't. So considering how we took those peaks off you means we gained land off of you and still have it under our control. Which means you lost land. Ye you gained some peaks on our side. But does it outweigh the peaks gained on your side? No. It doesn't. As rightly pointed out by gig's, 5353 gives us oversight of 250km of indian territory.

We can shell your nh1a and cut off your supplies

That's what our peaks we gained gave us.

What did you get? Your own land back? Tiger hill, tololing, shangruti, dhalunag? That's it?

Please do excuse yourself from this forum


Do you know what here's a big question for you. Why, out of all the forums did you decide to make an account with PAKISTAN defence forum? Why didn't you make your account and post on the Indian bharat rashak or whatever its called? Why pak def?

 

[White and Green with M/S]

I shall reiterate again.

These aren't my points.

These are irrefutable facts.

We hold 4 peaks

We still patrol them today.

How was op vijay a success then?

Heck even if we held 1 peak that being 5353 then that will still mean op vijay is a failure.

You can keep saying I'm a no one and make out all these facts I am stating, I somehow made up by myself... Even though I didn't.

I just used your own people, praveen swahmy and RK Anand for these facts.

I mean you can say they are a nobody but considering how praveen swahmy has been an Indian defence analyst since before either of us were born, I believe its fair to say he knows what he is talking about


Refute us holding the 4 peaks

Refute us patrolling those peaks today

And prove how India managed to retake all the peaks. Not 1 or 2. ALL 8 peaks. Until then. Its a massive failure for India.

Neither objective was completed as is evident by praveen swahmy and RK Anands notes, your casualties were higher than that of Pakistan as is evident by the official count held by Pakistan of its shaheed (453) where as yours is still yet to see the light of day. If we do take your propaganda figure into account its still higher (549+) than ours.

We had kargil since 71. We didn't. So considering how we took those peaks off you means we gained land off of you and still have it under our control. Which means you lost land. Ye you gained some peaks on our side. But does it outweigh the peaks gained on your side? No. It doesn't. As rightly pointed out by gig's, 5353 gives us oversight of 250km of indian territory.

We can shell your nh1a and cut off your supplies

That's what our peaks we gained gave us.

What did you get? Your own land back? Tiger hill, tololing, shangruti, dhalunag? That's it?

Please do excuse yourself from this forum


Do you know what here's a big question for you. Why, out of all the forums did you decide to make an account with PAKISTAN defence forum? Why didn't you make your account and post on the Indian bharat rashak or whatever its called? Why pak def?

Ignore him bro why you wasting your time with him all Indians are in delusional that they won all war against PAKISTAN

 

[Osiris]

I shall reiterate again.

These aren't my points.

These are irrefutable facts.

We hold 4 peaks

We still patrol them today.

How was op vijay a success then?

Heck even if we held 1 peak that being 5353 then that will still mean op vijay is a failure.

You can keep saying I'm a no one and make out all these facts I am stating, I somehow made up by myself... Even though I didn't.

I just used your own people, praveen swahmy and RK Anand for these facts.

I mean you can say they are a nobody but considering how praveen swahmy has been an Indian defence analyst since before either of us were born, I believe its fair to say he knows what he is talking about


Refute us holding the 4 peaks

Refute us patrolling those peaks today

And prove how India managed to retake all the peaks. Not 1 or 2. ALL 8 peaks. Until then. Its a massive failure for India.

Neither objective was completed as is evident by praveen swahmy and RK Anands notes, your casualties were higher than that of Pakistan as is evident by the official count held by Pakistan of its shaheed (453) where as yours is still yet to see the light of day. If we do take your propaganda figure into account its still higher (549+) than ours.

We had kargil since 71. We didn't. So considering how we took those peaks off you means we gained land off of you and still have it under our control. Which means you lost land. Ye you gained some peaks on our side. But does it outweigh the peaks gained on your side? No. It doesn't. As rightly pointed out by gig's, 5353 gives us oversight of 250km of indian territory.

We can shell your nh1a and cut off your supplies

That's what our peaks we gained gave us.

What did you get? Your own land back? Tiger hill, tololing, shangruti, dhalunag? That's it?

Please do excuse yourself from this forum


Do you know what here's a big question for you. Why, out of all the forums did you decide to make an account with PAKISTAN defence forum? Why didn't you make your account and post on the Indian bharat rashak or whatever its called? Why pak def?

Nonesene..you hold one peak , rest are the ridges of the same peak.

It does not give you advantage as it is surrounded by Indian controlled peak on 3 sides... obstructing its view.

This peak that you hold is furthest from Nh1 as it lies right on LoC.

In this day of real time surveillance with drone.. one does not need to be standing on top of a cliff to direct artillery fire.

Proof is in the pudding. It has been 22 years since Kargil with thousands artillery duels from both sides..not once has Pakistan been able disrupt any traffic on NH1...why do you think that is.

It was tiger hill which was paramount directing fire on NH1..as it was direct line of sight of large section of NH1..not point 5353.

This saga of point 5353 ..is Pakistanis clutching at straws .. trying salvage something out of war which ended complete and utter humiliation of Pakistani nation.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Nonesene..you hold one peak , rest are the ridges of the same peak.

It does not give you advantage as it is surrounded by Indian controlled peak on 3 sides... obstructing its view.

This peak that you hold is furthest from Nh1 as it lies right on LoC.

In this day of real time surveillance with drone.. one does not need to be standing on top of a cliff to direct artillery fire.

Proof is in the pudding. It has been 22 years since Kargil with thousands artillery duels from both sides..not once has Pakistan been able disrupt any traffic on NH1...why do you think that is.

It was tiger hill which was paramount directing fire on NH1..as it was direct line of sight of large section of NH1..not point 5353.

This saga of point 5353 ..is Pakistanis clutching at straws .. trying salvage something out of war which ended complete and utter humiliation of Pakistani nation.

Here comes another troll/ delusional bhakt, okay you won all war against PAKISTAN, now h as happy

 

[Tornado23]

Nonesene..you hold one peak , rest are the ridges of the same peak.

It does not give you advantage as it is surrounded by Indian controlled peak on 3 sides... obstructing its view.

This peak that you hold is furthest from Nh1 as it lies right on LoC.

In this day of real time surveillance with drone.. one does not need to be standing on top of a cliff to direct artillery fire.

Proof is in the pudding. It has been 22 years since Kargil with thousands artillery duels from both sides..not once has Pakistan been able disrupt any traffic on NH1...why do you think that is.

It was tiger hill which was paramount directing fire on NH1..as it was direct line of sight of large section of NH1..not point 5353.

This saga of point 5353 ..is Pakistanis clutching at straws .. trying salvage something out of war which ended complete and utter humiliation of Pakistani nation.

Nonesene..you hold one peak , rest are the ridges of the same peak.

It does not give you advantage as it is surrounded by Indian controlled peak on 3 sides... obstructing its view.

This peak that you hold is furthest from Nh1 as it lies right on LoC.

In this day of real time surveillance with drone.. one does not need to be standing on top of a cliff to direct artillery fire.

Proof is in the pudding. It has been 22 years since Kargil with thousands artillery duels from both sides..not once has Pakistan been able disrupt any traffic on NH1...why do you think that is.

It was tiger hill which was paramount directing fire on NH1..as it was direct line of sight of large section of NH1..not point 5353.

This saga of point 5353 ..is Pakistanis clutching at straws .. trying salvage something out of war which ended complete and utter humiliation of Pakistani nation.

Are you actually trying here?

'Point 5353 is a prominent peak on this ridge, overlooking the strategic National Highway 1 of India linking Srinagar to Leh. It is at an aeral distance of 12 km from Dras, which lies on the National Highway 1.'

Point 5353 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

As for the other peaks

rediff.com: Pakistan occupying six Indian peaks, claims MP

Currently today we hold

Point 5353
Aftab 1
Bunker ridge
Saddle ridge

We lost the other 2.

This alone shows operation vijay was a failure.

Why?

Because operation vijay was launched to retake ALL peaks occupied by Pakistan and to expel pakistani prescense from the area. This was not done as we hold the 4 peaks mentioned above and are still patrolling it.

So how is it a victory for India? It isnt

Last time I checked, partially completing an objective does not result in a success.


Also for reals? You are saying we can't shell NH1 because we didn't do so in the loc ceasefires.

Fun fact, we did the shell the crap out of it during the kargil war. Perhaps in war time we will shell it.

 

[Windjammer]

@Huffal
Dude let me ask you, have you too much free time to kill......if so then fine, else why you wasting energy and time with these unemployed Indians.
Fact 1.... An Indian MP claimed that Pakistan still holds Six Kargil Peaks.
The Indian army never denied it and barely said.....''We are looking into the comments (claim).
Fact 2..... Indians admitted that the Indian supply route to Kargil or Siachin was constantly in the sights of Pakistani guns ....thus they had to build several tunnels to assure the supply line remain unaffected.

 

[Tornado23]

Ignore him bro why you wasting your time with him all Indians are in delusional that they won all war against PAKISTAN

Because its funny to see what he replies with.

I am stating facts. What he replies with is him finding it hard to accept those facts.

 

[Tornado23]

@Huffal
Dude let me ask you, have you too much free time to kill......if so then fine, else why you wasting energy and time with these unemployed Indians.
Fact 1.... An Indian MP claimed that Pakistan still holds Six Kargil Peaks.
The Indian army never denied it and barely said.....''We are looking into the comments (claim).
Fact 2..... Indians admitted that the Indian supply route to Kargil or Siachin was constantly in the sights of Pakistani guns ....thus they had to build several tunnels to assure the supply line remain unaffected.

1) I have a lot of free time to kill. Especially today. Every Friday I do no work. Just chill.

2)i know. I want to see what they will come out with. Its a good laugh

 

[Osiris]

Are you actually trying here?

'Point 5353 is a prominent peak on this ridge, overlooking the strategic National Highway 1 of India linking Srinagar to Leh. It is at an aeral distance of 12 km from Dras, which lies on the National Highway 1.'

Point 5353 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

As for the other peaks

rediff.com: Pakistan occupying six Indian peaks, claims MP

Currently today we hold

Point 5353
Aftab 1
Bunker ridge
Saddle ridge

We lost the other 2.

This alone shows operation vijay was a failure.

Why?

Because operation vijay was launched to retake ALL peaks occupied by Pakistan and to expel pakistani prescense from the area. This was not done as we hold the 4 peaks mentioned above and are still patrolling it.

So how is it a victory for India? It isnt

Last time I checked, partially completing an objective does not result in a success.


Also for reals? You are saying we can't shell NH1 because we didn't do so in the loc ceasefires.

Fun fact, we did the shell the crap out of it during the kargil war. Perhaps in war time we will shell it.

Firstly take a Geography 101 and learn the difference between a ridge and a peak.

Point 5353 is a peak and rest under your control are the ridges of the same hill.
Ridge is at lower elevation than the peak of the mountain.

So let's be clear, you control one peak of the 140 peaks you captured initially and that's it.

So let's ascertain on who's bigger failure here.

Pakistan which occupied 140 peaks at the beginning of this war determined to cut supply line to Siachen, forcing India to vacate Siachen or India, which recaptured 139 of 140 peaks and has its supply chains to Siachen stronger than ever...that is a success rate of 99.3%.

It was not as if Pakistan never tried to target NH 1 since it lost control of tiger hill in the Kargil war.

In 2002 standoff Pakistan did try to shell NH 1 from its position on 5353, but due its limited visibility of NH1 and massive counter fire from surrounding peaks which are all Indian control, Pakistanis quickly gave up and never attempted it again.

The only time, Pakistan was able briefly interdict .. Indian supply convoys on NH1 ..was during its brief occupation of Tiger hill..once the tiger hill and Tololing were lost .. Pakistan was never again able to target NH 1 again.[/QUOTE]

 

[Tornado23]

Firstly take a Geography 101 and learn the difference between ridge and a peak.

Point 5353 is a peak and rest under your control are the ridges of the same hill.
Ridge is at lower elevation than the peak of same hill.

So let's be clear, you control one peak of the 140 peaks you captured initially and that's it.

So let's ascertain on who's bigger failure here.

Pakistan which occupied 140 peaks at the beginning of this war determined to cut supply line to Siachen, forcing India to vacate Siachen or India, which recaptured 139 of 140 peaks and has its supply chains to Siachen stronger than ever...that is success rate of 99.3%.

It was not as if Pakistan never tried to target NH 1 since it lost control of tiger hill in the Kargil war.

In 2002 standoff Pakistan did try to shell NH 1 from its position on 5353, but due its limited visibility of NH1 and massive counter fire from surrounding peaks which are all Indian control, Pakistanis quickly gave up and never attempted it again.

The only time, Pakistan was able briefly interdict .. Indian supply convoys on NH1 ..was during its brief occupation of Tiger hill..once the tiger hill and Tololing were lost .. Pakistan was never again able to target NH 1 again.

[/QUOTE]140 peaks... You for real?

Give me the source of that because that's sus.

 

[Jackdaws]

What the hell?

Ok my dude you yourself have destroyed your own credibility by saying you captured 100k pakistanis soldiers. Its evident we only had 34000 regulars with another 11k to 12k irregulars. At most 55k including regulars, irregulars, and non combatants

What are you smoking?

So who released this stamp?