Judge rejects minor girl's plea to skip swim class on religious grounds

[Awesome]

Why send your kids to a co-ed?

So that kids learn to interact with the opposite sex. Being nanga punga is not a mandatory interaction that you want your kids to learn.

I think girls should get sufficient exposure to the boys of their age and grow up in the context of that interaction, otherwise when they grow up, the men seem like a bizarre mystery to them and they end up doing either really stupid stuff or end up being oppressed.

To ensure your kid makes good choices, make sure you teach them, not shield them.

 

[cyphercide]

Why are some Muslims (journalists?) bent on trying to demonstrate wide spread occurrence of perceived 'Islamophobia' in the West?

That you needed to dig up a case that is more than 4 years old.....

The administrative court in Düsseldorf ruled that the state's responsibility to educate the girl outweighed the potential infringement on her religious freedom.

German Muslim girl can't skip swim lessons: court - The Local

German Muslim girl can't skip swim lessons: court
Published: 7 May 08

The 12-year-old girl's parents sued her school in the northern German city of Remscheid after the school refused to allow the girl to skip swimming class. Citing religious reasons, the parents said they did not want their daughter to participate because her body would not be covered.

The ruling means the girl must participate in swimming lessons starting next week, Sabine Ernst of the Alexander von Humboldt School told German news agency DDP. Ernst declined to state what the consequences could be if the girl declines to attend.

Her parents' attorney said the family plans to appeal and that the decision should not be considered precedent-setting.

The parents rejected an offer last year from the girl's teacher to allow her to swim in leggings and a t-shirt, saying the girl's body would still be visible through the wet clothing.

The Düsseldorf court concluded that because most of a swimming lesson takes place underwater, the girl's body would largely remain obscured even in wet clothing.

The Remscheid school said it did not have the personnel to separate boys and girls in swimming lessons. In the past the school had allowed Muslim girls to skip the lessons and take a different class instead, but a rule put in place last year explicitly requires participation by Muslim students.

Crap. Now I feel like a dick for defending the parents.

Nothing wrong with making things easy for yourself.
There is no law in Germany which recognizes Quranic guidelines for genders,but there are laws which recognize other things,such as not willing to swim out of fear,phobia,allergy,or simply not wanting to.
What matters is the end result.
If the girl gets her right of choosing not to swim,that's what matters.
Even after court ruling,no police will be called if she simply refuses to attend swimming classes and gives no reason.
Key term here is 'knowing the law of the land'.

It's not worth faking ailments just to have things your way. Not only is it unethical but imagine the backlash if the girl gets outed on the lie.

 

[Awesome]

I had a similar problem some years ago.
My son's school wanted all the class to attend a church service.
I had no problem with my son visiting a church,but i found out thar it will be a propper church servive,with all praying the christian way.
I didnt bother to go to school admin and bash them with what my religion says..
I simply took my so to school half an hour late when the class had already left for the church.

Is it like a Christian school? How did they manage to get a non-secular activity into the programme in UK?

 

[Safriz]

^^ No,its not.
Finding it terrifying to swim with boys can be legally classed as phobia.

 

[Safriz]

Is it like a Christian school? How did they manage to get a non-secular activity into the programme in UK?

My friend there is no such thing as secular europe...
All are inclined towards christianity.

Here in UK,the church of England is the biggest property owner,amd almost all schools are old churvh buildings rented out to the government,and they regularly preach christianity to children.

 

[cyphercide]

^^ No,its not.
Finding it terrifying to swim with boys can be legally classed as phobia.

A valid therapy prescribed for such phobias is systematic desensitization(In this particular case, swimming with boys for hours to get the phobia out). We wouldn't want that, would we?

Systematic desensitization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Safriz]

A valid therapy prescribed for such phobias is systematic desensitization(In this particular case, swimming with boys for hours to get the phobia out). We wouldn't want that, would we?

Systematic desensitization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is on the discretion of the person to take the therapy or leave it.
There is no legal compulsion on taking therapy.

 

[cyphercide]

That is on the discretion of the person to take the therapy or leave it.
There is no legal compulsion on taking therapy.

Since this is a legal case, what if it is court mandated therapy? Other people can throw curve balls too, you know.

 

[Safriz]

Since this is a legal case, what if it is court mandated therapy? Other people can throw curve balls too, you know.

You dont seem to know much about european law.
Thats all i can say.

 

[cyphercide]

You dont seem to know much about european law.
Thats all i can say.

Guilty as charged. European courts are known for never mandating psychotherapy. Googling on the subject reveals zero cases.

Sarcasm Off

The virtues of honesty clearly escape you, my good man. Since it has already been established that the parents were the crazy ones and my benefit of doubt being shattered, my interest in this debate is now nullified.

Bugging out.

 

[Fireurimagination]

Damn..here goes Germany's olympic gold in swimming ; the blame lies with the parents cause I don't think a 12 year old girl born and raised in Germany would have that much problem with bare chested 12 year boys in a swimming class but it's the parents that have the problem with bare chested 12 year boys in a swimming class and if it was so then they shouldn't have put her in a co-ed school or in a school with compulsory swimming lessons or they should have stayed back in Morocco instead of asking for special favors or bending of rules for them

 

[KRAIT]

In India and Pakistan, people are way not tolerant with many things which are Western. Short skirts, drinking and smoking by girls, having BF and pre-martial sex , live in relationship etc.(some points are debatable) are against our social norms.

If we can't be tolerant and wants things to be our way then whats wrong with Germany court deciding for its own norms and culture. We can't impose our culture on them when we live in their country. You don't have to live in a country where you find uncomfortable to live.

Can we expect Indian and Pakistanis protesting against beef and pork in US ? You don't like it, deal with it, don't try to change what they like.

 

[KRAIT]

Those people have skewed vision and irrational view of Indian culture. Of course there are such incidents, itsa county of 1.2 billion with many religion and cultures living in it. These inhumane things happen..

Doesn't it happen in Pakistan. When two people eat food in open during \Ramadan, they were beaten, didn't they ? You guys want to ban Indian movies and channels to save your culture.

If the court took the matter from the national POV, it is not a matter of objection to be taken forward. They have the right of keeping heir society according to THEIR views.

All we can do is either adapt or leave the country. Look at Sikhs of India, adapted everywhere especially in West.

 

[livingdead]

My friend there is no such thing as secular europe...
All are inclined towards christianity.

Here in UK,the church of England is the biggest property owner,amd almost all schools are old churvh buildings rented out to the government,and they regularly preach christianity to children.

You are right about church of England, but not about europe in general.
UK still have monarchy, queen is the head of state as well as head of church of england. UK has got blashphemy law, to an outsider it is exactly like a muslim country.
Except that it is not, church of England is a (castrated) benign entity, secualrist rule here.

UK also has faith schools (many faiths have them including muslims) which is not really a good idea, but quite popular.
Are you sure it is a state school you are talking about not a faith school?

You can flatly refuge going to church, or even sue them if they force you.

 

[Safriz]

You are right about church of England, but not about europe in general.
UK still have monarchy, queen is the head of state as well as head of church of england. UK has got blashphemy law, to an outsider it is exactly like a muslim country.
Except that it is not, church of England is a (castrated) benign entity, secualrist rule here.

UK also has faith schools (many faiths have them including muslims) which is not really a good idea, but quite popular.
Are you sure it is a state school you are talking about not a faith school?

You can flatly refuge going to church, or even sue them if they force you.

Church of England is the bigest property owner in England and owns most schools here.
Depends on where you live,some are unannounced christian schools and they even teach gospels to children,although not every day.
We can take the matter to the court,but we dont. Just pull our children out when its a pure christian activity.