Jordan expels Israeli ambassador

[FaujHistorian]

This from their mouths not mine, and trust me it's not mockery it's just inferiority syndrome that got you to hail Israel in every occasion.


See? That's what I'm talking about, I didn't even talk about 67 war, see how your inferiority syndrome blinded you? I was talking about Al-Karama battle in 1968. And wait here, coming from you? off course you would boast others hair since you have non.

For 1973, we didn't officially entered the war because we didn't prepare for it and wasn't involded in planning for it, as we were isolated from Arab world after Black September events. However we did our job pretty well in preventing Israel from advancing into Syrian capital.




I don't want to get involved in Jordanian role in Arab Israeli wars until you show us a single battle you won in your entire history..

As I say to you over and over dude.

Please do not butcher war history and say that Arabs somehow overpowered 50 times smaller Israel.

That's all.


And yes Pakistan is small like Israel when it comes to our war history.

And our enemy is larger than us in every respect just like Arabs.

Pakistan's goal has always been to protect the borders of modern day Pakistan. Our army and airforce and navy has been in the defensive posture since 1947.

Everyone gave our country 2 years to live. That's all. 2 years.

But we are still around. Still breathing in the face all the adversity we faced.

Like Israel, we just want to live in peace and keep our borders safe. That's all.

Did we do perfect job?


No. did we beat 50 times bigger enemy. NO!

Could we have done better job militarily and economically? Yes!
-- Had we had a good and sane king like Jordan's. Absolutely Yes!

But we lived in a different place in different times.

We never claimed any Indian area across International borders. Never.

We never wanted war with 50 times bigger enemy anyways.


Can you claim defending against and fighting to repel 50 times bigger enemy?


peace

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

As I say to you over and over dude.

Please do not butcher war history and say that Arabs somehow overpowered 50 times smaller Israel.

That's all.


And yes Pakistan is small like Israel when it comes to our war history.

And our enemy is larger than us in every respect just like Arabs.

Pakistan's goal has always been to protect the borders of modern day Pakistan. Our army and airforce and navy has been in the defensive posture since 1947.

Everyone gave our country 2 years to live. That's all. 2 years.

But we are still around. Still breathing in the face all the adversity we faced.

Like Israel, we just want to live in peace and keep our borders safe. That's all.

Did we do perfect job?


No. did we beat 50 times bigger enemy. NO!

Could we have done better job militarily and economically? Yes!
-- Had we had a good and sane king like Jordan's. Absolutely Yes!

But we lived in a different place in different times.

We never claimed any Indian area across International borders. Never.

We never wanted war with 50 times bigger enemy anyways.


Can you claim defending against and fighting to repel 50 times bigger enemy?


peace

Yeah, it's like Arabs and India fight with all their population , your logic sucks. India can't be compared to Israel, it's no more middle and old ages were number of troops decide the destiny of wars, it's the quality of arms which decide that in 20th and 21th centuries. Israel had the best of Western and American weapon and arms, much superior than the Arabs, not to mention their superior training, that have no comparison to the poorly trained and armed Indians who got more than 420 jets downed without wars in the past decade. Another thing, whose planes are bombing his country day and night? Is it Jordan and Egypt or Pakistan?

I urge you again to bring me a single battle you won against the inferior India, before boasting others hair. To make it easier for you, you have non, our history Mr. Historian puts you all into the deepest hole of shame.

 

[anonymus]

Yeah, it's like Arabs and India fight with all their population , your logic sucks. India can't be compared to Israel, it's no more middle and old ages were number of troops decide the destiny of wars, it's the quality of arms which decide that in 20th and 21th centuries. Israel had the best of Western and American weapon and arms, much superior than the Arabs, not to mention their superior training, that have no comparison to the poorly trained and armed Indians who got more than 420 jets downed without wars in the past decade. Another thing, whose planes are bombing his country day and night? Is it Jordan and Egypt or Pakistan?

I urge you again to bring me a single battle you won against the inferior India, before boasting others hair. To make it easier for you, you have non, our history Mr. Historian puts you all into the deepest hole of shame.

Correction:

India has lost 482 migs in 4 decades not one. That too because of defective spares part supplied by Ukraine and those migs were anyway of 1970 vintage. Only 3 modern fighter had been lost to accident in last decade.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

I was talking about Al-Karama battle in 1968.

It is a topic that could deserve it's own thread. The Jordanians and PLA certainly see it as a successful battle. In Israel the feelings are mixed. You have to take into account that the battle took place shortly after the Six day war, so even holding on against the Israeli army was thought of as a grand victory.
There were many failings in the Israeli side, helicopters arriving late, faulty commands etc. However if we try to look at the operations Israel conducted that day objectively it's hard to say it's a win for Jordan.
Jordan was on a defensive terrain defended by the Jordan river which Israeli forces had to cross, they had easier access to reinforcement (which they used). Jordan also had bunkers defending the area.
Jordan army in the region outnumbered the Israeli, that's without taking into account the additional hundreds of PLA fighters.
Neither did Israel have the element of surprise. The only advantage Israel had was in the air force deployed.
now to losses:
Israel:
28 dead
69 wounded
4 tanks;
2 half-tracks
2 armored cars;
1 aircraft

Jordan
84 dead
250 wounded;
4 captured;
30 tanks
2 aircraft

PLO
100–200 dead;
~100 wounded;
120–150 captured

typical Arab "victory".

peace
Egypt did what they wanted on this war our objectives were clear
1 destroy the bar liev line
2 inflect heavy losses on isreal army
3advancing within our air defense range into sainai and hold our position
4 start negotiations to get back our land sainai
and we did it all our mistake is advancing without air cover because syria and the soviet union made us because things on syrian front were bad

You have started well, but if not for USSR your whole 3rd army would have died without the urgent supply of water.
In effect there were no Egyptian military forces between our army past the canal to Cairo and the Egyptian heartland.
on an explicit USSR threat to send troops and it's own air force against Israel stopped our tanks, not Egypt.

Israel had the best of Western and American weapon and arms, much superior than the Arabs, not to mention their superior training

Israeli did not always have better equipment, in the six day war and beforehand the situation was pretty comparable.
In the 1948 war some Arab armies were equipped much better, namely the Jordanian force for example.
The Israeli's did have much better training as well as superior command. They also had much better moral as they were fighting for their life and the survival of their families while the Arabs were fighting an offensive war. The mood in Israel in the waiting period before the Six day war was of the nearing end of Israel.

 

[Mahmoud_EGY]

You have started well, but if not for USSR your whole 3rd army would have died without the urgent supply of water.
In effect there were no Egyptian military forces between our army past the canal to Cairo and the Egyptian heartland.
on an explicit USSR threat to send troops and it's own air force against Israel stopped our tanks, not Egypt.

we had troops in cairo and we could have called Algeria for help if we need at the time
the 3rd army could have attacked anyway
your army couldnt stand the losses they already have
a long war will finish off your economy
the soviets helped us and the US helped you i can say the same if the US didnt back you up your country would not be here today
all our objectives are done by war and negotiations

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

It is a topic that could deserve it's own thread. The Jordanians and PLA certainly see it as a successful battle. In Israel the feelings are mixed. You have to take into account that the battle took place shortly after the Six day war, so even holding on against the Israeli army was thought of as a grand victory.
There were many failings in the Israeli side, helicopters arriving late, faulty commands etc. However if we try to look at the operations Israel conducted that day objectively it's hard to say it's a win for Jordan.
Jordan was on a defensive terrain defended by the Jordan river which Israeli forces had to cross, they had easier access to reinforcement (which they used). Jordan also had bunkers defending the area.
Jordan army in the region outnumbered the Israeli, that's without taking into account the additional hundreds of PLA fighters.
Neither did Israel have the element of surprise. The only advantage Israel had was in the air force deployed.
now to losses:
Israel:
28 dead
69 wounded
4 tanks;
2 half-tracks
2 armored cars;
1 aircraft

Jordan
84 dead
250 wounded;
4 captured;
30 tanks
2 aircraft

PLO
100–200 dead;
~100 wounded;
120–150 captured

typical Arab "victory".

Dear, it's a typical Jewish lie, you are pretty known for it:

I tell you why it's a victory, simply because Israel didn't achieve any of it's objectives and got more casualties and loses than Jordan, for the first time Israel requests a cease fire which King Hussein refused until Israel retreat from all Jordanian lands, the thing that happened in the hard way.

Loses

Israel:

250 dead
450 wounded
11 tanks + 27 hit tanks were pulled from the battle field
3 half-tracks + 18 hit APCs were pulled from the battle field
3 armored cars; + 27 hit cars were pulled from the battle field
1 aircraft + 7 were pulled from the battle field

Jordan:

86 dead
108 wounded;
13 tanks + 20 hit tanks
39 armored cars

Look what Israeli said after they were humiliated:

- Israeli Chief of Staff, Haim Bar-Lev, said in a speech published by Haaretz on 31/3/68: "This battle was unique due to the high numbers of casualties among our troops and a phenomenon for the first time in capturing our vehicles"

- Haim Bar-Lev, the Israeli chief of staff aid: that Israel lost in the latest offensive on the Jordan military vehicles equivalent to three times what it lost in the Six-Day War.

- The Israeli Knesset member, Shmuel Tamir, requested forming a parliamentary committee to investigate the results of the battle that prove that the casualties among Israeli troops are relatively more.

- A battle group commander (Aharon Peled) to the Israeli newspaper Davar said: I had seen heavy shelling several times in my life but I have not seen anything like this before, most of my tanks were hit in the battle with the exception of only two.

- The Israeli Knesset member, Shlomo Jrsk, said: "We doubt validity of the numbers of Israel casualties in the battle that was announced by IAF".

- Names of Jordanian martyrs:

http://www.jaf.mil.jo/Ar/About.aspx?CategoryID=12&SubCategoryID=51

- Captured and destroyed Israeli vechles:

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

(Israeli destroyed jet)

 

[Battle of Kursk]

I thought there was a point to debate with you, but your numbers are just made up.
Israel can not lie about the number of it's casualties in battle since we are a small democratic country and the information gets easily around. Israel has a history of reporting accurate numbers (only exclusion is special forces operation which is irrelevant here anyway).
furthermore Israel has no interest in lying about the numbers, not then and certainly not now.

The pictures don't prove your point, as I stated there were Israeli losses.