Jf-17 Vs. Fc-20 In Dogfight

[Pak47]

We know the Jf-17's constantly out performed the F-16 B15's in WVR combat.

How does the Jf-17 compare with the Fc-20. (J10 B)

I found this on a different forum.

"The J-10 is a relaxed stability canard design with quad redundant FBW in three axis, providing a platform that is likely to outperform the JF-17 in WVR combat."

 

[Donatello]

We know the Jf-17's constantly out performed the F-16 B15's in WVR combat.

How does the Jf-17 compare with the Fc-20. (J10 B)

I found this on a different forum.

"The J-10 is a relaxed stability canard design with quad redundant FBW in three axis, providing a platform that is likely to outperform the JF-17 in WVR combat."

Just because it is relaxed stability doesn't mean it will outperform. It might, but not exactly for any single reason. For example the Delta configuration on the J-10 will create enormous drag while turning. So even though the j-10 can slow it's speed and turn rapidly, it still needs to regain speed after a turn. For that you need a powerful engine. Something like the Eurofighter Typhoon, where even though it is a delta design, it can accelerate very quickly due to both engines being very powerful.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Just because it is relaxed stability doesn't mean it will outperform. It might, but not exactly for any single reason. For example the Delta configuration on the J-10 will create enormous drag while turning. So even though the j-10 can slow it's speed and turn rapidly, it still needs to regain speed after a turn. For that you need a powerful engine. Something like the Eurofighter Typhoon, where even though it is a delta design, it can accelerate very quickly due to both engines being very powerful.

But the climb rate of the delta and the ITR is much more compared to the JF 17 to point and shoot and what if the FC 20 engages the JF 17 in a vertical slashing attack or in a barrel 3D scissors? That time the JF 17 with it's underpowered engines is at a disadvantage.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

We will need data on TW ratio,wing loading,turn rate and max AOA to tell clearly.But jf-17 seems to be outgunned.If it could beat j-10b then china would have opted for cheaper jf-17 over it.

 

[That Guy]

@gambit

What do you think? Which would be better in a dogfight?

Personally, I think the J-10 would constantly outperform the JF-17.

 

[Pak47]

@Aeronaut @Oscar @Dazzler @fatman17 @Windjammer [MENTION=33335]@Donatello

and many other not listed.

Ik, we don't have much details on the exact engine fc-20 will use, but what do you think?

 

[S10]

Let's put it this way, if JF-17 was anywhere near J-10's performance, wouldn't the PLAAF purchase them by now?

 

[araz]

Let's put it this way, if JF-17 was anywhere near J-10's performance, wouldn't the PLAAF purchase them by now?

The answer would still be No. Different platforms fill different needs. What is ideal for us is not necessarily ideal for China. Give you another example. F16s have won against F15s and18s in mock combat. However the USAF does not abandon all f15s and 18s in favour of F16s. Size determines range number of armaments and loiter time which a small country like pakistan does not really need therefore our choice for JFT. China has a large land mass and needs large fighters with longer range and longer loiter time. Therefore for their Lo Hi combo they will use J10and J11 respectively. For our Lo Hi combo we will need JFT and J10/F16s.
Araz

 

[fatman17]

JFT is a LCA
FC-20 is a MMRCA

so why the comparison. complete waste

 

[Side-Winder]

The answer would still be No. Different platforms fill different needs. What is ideal for us is not necessarily ideal for China. Give you another example. F16s have won against F15s and18s in mock combat. However the USAF does not abandon all f15s and 18s in favour of F16s. Size determines range number of armaments and loiter time which a small country like pakistan does not really need therefore our choice for JFT. China has a large land mass and needs large fighters with longer range and longer loiter time. Therefore for their Lo Hi combo they will use J10and J11 respectively. For our Lo Hi combo we will need JFT and J10/F16s.
Araz

but why don't they replace their JH-7s or Q-5s with JFT? now that JFT is having mid air refeulling capability! i think PLAAF should induct it now!

 

[araz]

but why don't they replace their JH-7s or Q-5s with JFT? now that JFT is having mid air refeulling capability! i think PLAAF should induct it now!

Dont you think this is a decision for PLAAF? They have invested time and money in J10. 15 yrs down the line they have a plane whch is exactly what they want. You now want them to choose a plane which does not suit their needs to be inducted just so you can say that it is a success. They have to make their own evaluationand decide for themselves what they want.
Araz

 

[IHK_PK]

NOT NECESSARY THAT U GET ALL WHAT U NEED.

 

[Side-Winder]

Dont you think this is a decision for PLAAF? They have invested time and money in J10. 15 yrs down the line they have a plane whch is exactly what they want. You now want them to choose a plane which does not suit their needs to be inducted just so you can say that it is a success. They have to make their own evaluationand decide for themselves what they want.
Araz

i have no doubt that JFT project is a success,i had just a question in mind! thanks for your reply sir!

 

[Dazzler]

Let's put it this way, if JF-17 was anywhere near J-10's performance, wouldn't the PLAAF purchase them by now?

An amateur way to put a case into perspective, If JFT is so inferior, why PLA is still flying obsolete Q5, J7s and J-8IIs? Are they on par with J-10s aerodynamic performance? NO!

It all comes down to requirement, look at the projects they have under their belt, from J-20 to J-30, to J-11 xx, 15, 16, JH-7xx and what not. If you had any idea how much money, resources and time a single project R&D costs...

JFT perfectly fits the PAF, almost by default, a highly agile 4th generation aircraft that has a hostile neighborhood with plenty of toys to play with.

For PLAAF, the situation is much worse, they have Uncle Sam, Japan, Taiwan, India, even Vietnam in the backyard so they need heavy, long range and advanced aircraft in service ASAP.

Lastly, despite all this, the ground attack variant is still an option for PLAAF as a replacement for Q-5 and possibly for J-7s since they have not ruled it out and are still testing it.

 

[Pak47]

JFT is a LCA
FC-20 is a MMRCA

so why the comparison. complete waste

So your telling me its a complete waste for PAF pilots to train in their JF-17's to counter Su-30's and Rafales?