JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[ziaulislam]

Total agree with @MustanKhan , J10C is immidate solutions may be in limited numbers,
but will add lot of value,
we can easily wait for thandar block 3,
secondly it superseded thandar block 3 that is its speed , payload and flight altitude,



I am in favour of CFTs, tried to get any source or information in past for thandars, was unable to find. Do have any source or just your own wish like me.
Technically looking at thandars it's seem very difficult to have CFT considring it's air frame limitation and it will decrease its speed and increase RCS

seeing that jf17 will always fly with 2 fuel tanks, it might not be bad idea to get conformational fuel tanks..
whether this will add to too much weight that outstrips the benefits of CFTs is yet to seen
s far f18, f16, f15 all used them and found it to be beneficial

 

[Cookie Monster]

Total agree with @MustanKhan , J10C is immidate solutions may be in limited numbers,
but will add lot of value,
we can easily wait for thandar block 3,
secondly it superseded thandar block 3 that is its speed , payload and flight altitude,



I am in favour of CFTs, tried to get any source or information in past for thandars, was unable to find. Do have any source or just your own wish like me.
Technically looking at thandars it's seem very difficult to have CFT considring it's air frame limitation and it will decrease its speed and increase RCS

For now it's just a wish...
...but @messiach ma'am did state that the idea of CFT was explored on JF17 in the past...but not pursued IIRC.

Perhaps it can be revisited. Earlier JF17B and a wild weasel variant of it was not envisioned...so maybe now with that in mind...CFT will have more value?

Also I don't mean to derail this thread...so I'll just make this one post about this...
...about the J10 suggestion. If the rumored J15 is being pursued...then it's better to go all in with that. No point in acquiring J10...between JF17 and J15...J10 will not serve any major purpose other than creating a new type of jet(hence all the costs related to that).

 

[Scorpiooo]

For now it's just a wish...
...but @messiach ma'am did state that the idea of CFT was explored on JF17 in the past...but not pursued IIRC.

Perhaps it can be revisited. Earlier JF17B and a wild weasel variant of it was not envisioned...so maybe now with that in mind...CFT will have more value?

Also I don't mean to derail this thread...so I'll just make this one post about this...
...about the J10 suggestion. If the rumored J15 is being pursued...then it's better to go all in with that. No point in acquiring J10...between JF17 and J15...J10 will not serve any major purpose other than creating a new type of jet(hence all the costs related to that).

Why we want or wish to induct something stronger in our defence line, is our situation with enemy from past one year becoming dangerous day by day till Modi is in.
Why we wish to have something stronger like J15 or J10 or even any other platform as soon as possible is just due to pure love for our country and nation. Not to prolong the thread

 

[Cookie Monster]

Why we want or wish to induct something stronger in our defence line, is our situation with enemy from past one year becoming dangerous day by day till Modi is in.
Why we wish to have something stronger like J15 or J10 or even any other platform as soon as possible is just due to pure love for our country and nation. Not to prolong the thread

I was never questioning ur intentions...
...all the wishlists(mine included) of all the fanboys stem from that.

I was arguing from a practical standpoint. For example it is far better to have 36 J15...than 18 J10s and 18 J15s.

 

[Readerdefence]

Jf17 has fuel limiting issues ..would be interesting to see if CFTs are feasible to get rid of the two fuel tanks it has to use.
Some say block 3 will have refined version of rd 93 and more fuel but that isnt confirmed

Hi mate thanks for your reply isn’t it possible to buddy refuel for the attacking jets & what about after taking off refuel them again in the air before they cross the border will that help in this scenario if possible to answer
Thank you

 

[Thorough Pro]

CFT's are smaller than underwing tanks, so they would reduce the range.

For the rumored JF17B(Wild Weasel type) it would be immensely helpful to have conformal fuel tanks. It would free up two hardpoints.

The two conformal fuel tanks plus the central fuel tank will give it long enough range to fly deep enough to protected Indian sites and carry out SEAD/DEAD. With only the central hardpoint utilized for a fuel tank...that leaves 6 hardpoints...
- the two wingtip ones can carry ELINT Pods(like that on J16D)
- 2 of the remaining 4 can carry MAR 1(or a Chinese ARM)
- the remaining two can carry air to air missiles for self defense(although I assume there will be escort aircraft in full air to air engagement configuration)
- the aesa radar can be optimized for EW.

In absence of conformal fuel tanks...it would be very difficult to find room to optimize JF17B for SEAD/DEAD type role...while also giving it enough range.

 

[Cookie Monster]

CFT's are smaller than underwing tanks, so they would reduce the range.

Yes but that difference is negligible when u consider the two hard points that are freed up.

F16s CFTs have about 1500lbs capacity each
F18s CFTs have about 1750lbs capacity each

Right now JF17 can carry an 800 Kg(1764 lbs) fuel tank or an 1100 Kg(2425 lbs) fuel tank on the inner hardpoints. The centerline can only be 800 Kg bcuz I assume the 1100 Kg one won't have enough clearance.

If conformal fuel tanks are to be used...they can roughly match the fuel capacity of the 800 Kg(1764 lbs) tanks. F18 is the bigger aircraft...and so maybe F16's CFTs are a better comparison bcuz JF17 is just slightly smaller than an F16.

In any case it remains to be seen how much volume of fuel can the CFTs for JF17 hold...bcuz CFTs are different for each aircraft. Once we have that number...then a better comparison can be made in terms of the pros and cons of amount of fuel vs the hardpoints.

 

[Talon]

Repost from Facebook

 

[Thorough Pro]

Why would it be negligible?
We don't know what design and size Thunder CFT's would be but using the same ratio as for F-16, Thunder CFT's would be about 60% of the underwing tanks, and then underwing pylons would carry additional armaments so the impact on the range would be quite significant i,e. less fuel, more drag due to CFT's (howsoever negligible, it won't be zero) and then the additional weight of underwing armament.

F-16:
Internal 7,160lbs
CFTs 3,000lbs (36% of underwing)
Centerline 2,045lbs
Underwing 8,180lbs

Thunder:
Internal 5,130lbs
CFT's 463lbs (36% of underwing)
Centerline 467lbs
Underwing 1,286lbs

Yes but that difference is negligible when u consider the two hard points that are freed up.

F16s CFTs have about 1500lbs capacity each
F18s CFTs have about 1750lbs capacity each

Right now JF17 can carry an 800 Kg(1764 lbs) fuel tank or an 1100 Kg(2425 lbs) fuel tank on the inner hardpoints. The centerline can only be 800 Kg bcuz I assume the 1100 Kg one won't have enough clearance.

If conformal fuel tanks are to be used...they can roughly match the fuel capacity of the 800 Kg(1764 lbs) tanks. F18 is the bigger aircraft...and so maybe F16's CFTs are a better comparison bcuz JF17 is just slightly smaller than an F16.

In any case it remains to be seen how much volume of fuel can the CFTs for JF17 hold...bcuz CFTs are different for each aircraft. Once we have that number...then a better comparison can be made in terms of the pros and cons of amount of fuel vs the hardpoints.

 

[Scorpiooo]

I was never questioning ur intentions...
...all the wishlist(mine included) of all the fanboys stem from that.

I was arguing from a practical standpoint. For example it is far better to have 36 J15...than 18 J10s and 18 J15s.

One thing in confirm , if pakistani have J15 then it will from 2 to 3 sqr atleast not limited to one sqr
Remember operating a twin engine having high flyaway cost will not practical for Pakistan, so we need medium platform with decent flyway cost other then f16, which OAF can operate on regular basis and keep heavy bird on need basics
Offcouse no problem in lightweight as we have thandars

 

[syed_yusuf]

Why would it be negligible?
We don't know what design and size Thunder CFT's would be but using the same ratio as for F-16, Thunder CFT's would be about 60% of the underwing tanks, and then underwing pylons would carry additional armaments so the impact on the range would be quite significant i,e. less fuel, more drag due to CFT's (howsoever negligible, it won't be zero) and then the additional weight of underwing armament.

F-16:
Internal 7,160lbs
CFTs 3,000lbs (36% of underwing)
Centerline 2,045lbs
Underwing 8,180lbs

Thunder:
Internal 5,130lbs
CFT's 463lbs (36% of underwing)
Centerline 467lbs
Underwing 1,286lbs

Is there a plan for jft cft

 

[In arduis fidelis]

Repost from Facebook

View attachment 643179

Which glacier is this? Can someone geolocate this? It must be near Skardu Airbase.

 

[FuturePAF]

For the rumored JF17B(Wild Weasel type) it would be immensely helpful to have conformal fuel tanks. It would free up two hardpoints.

The two conformal fuel tanks plus the central fuel tank will give it long enough range to fly deep enough to protected Indian sites and carry out SEAD/DEAD. With only the central hardpoint utilized for a fuel tank...that leaves 6 hardpoints...
- the two wingtip ones can carry ELINT Pods(like that on J16D)
- 2 of the remaining 4 can carry MAR 1(or a Chinese ARM)
- the remaining two can carry air to air missiles for self defense(although I assume there will be escort aircraft in full air to air engagement configuration)
- the aesa radar can be optimized for EW.

In absence of conformal fuel tanks...it would be very difficult to find room to optimize JF17B for SEAD/DEAD type role...while also giving it enough range.

Hopefully the WS-13/19 will be a more efficient engine and burn less fuel then the RD-93 built on older technology. Even if the thrust is the same but the engine doesn’t burn as much fuel as fast for the same thrust, it could help extended the range of the jet or at least reduce the need for fuel tanks or Conformal fuel tanks.

Having said that, the large dorsal spine on the JF-17B probably houses more room for fuel. Also, using long range precision standoff weapons will help SEAD aircraft avoid the need to go in deep into enemy territory and a better network linking other platforms closer to the target (like the stealth UAV under development) would be a safer option.

Jf17 has fuel limiting issues ..would be interesting to see if CFTs are feasible to get rid of the two fuel tanks it has to use.
Some say block 3 will have refined version of rd 93 and more fuel but that isnt confirmed

If strategic assets could be made to fit under the JF-17 and equipped with these REK, then the JF-17 could safely take over the strategic role from the Mirages.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Is there a plan for jft cft

Not publicly

 

[syed_yusuf]

Not publicly

What do u mean not publicly? If we are discussing here it means there is a smoke. I would say a good development if done . Will help jft to evolve to a next level