JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Nomad40]

just wondering.

I am not ex-military lets put it that way.

 

[araz]

Sir,
F-16 Saab Gripen are also single engine fighter jets and has additional hard points....
So what was the logic behind it?

I will go out on a limb and say this. NO AIRCRAFT IN THE INDO-PAK ARENA WILL GO OUT WITH A LOADOUT OF MORE THAN 4 BVRS AND POSSIBLY 2 WVRs. It would simply be madness to do any more than that in an arena where most FOBs are within 2-3oo miles of each other. You want a fighter to discharge its load ASAP against its targets and return to base. Can you imagine being in a MKI with 10BVRs hung up and 2 AMRAAMSchasing you. What else will you do other than jettison your load and run for your life. SO where is the advatage in having the capacity of having more than 4 BVRs? the reality of war and peace time photoshoots need to be understood. The (hypothetical) reality of a fight with the USAF/other force over the Pacific ocean would be a totally different scenario as there you are looking to engage multiple targets at stand off ranges and are on a longer loitering time.
A

 

[Dreamer.]

Hi,

Saab Grippen is made by a COMMERCIAL ENTITY---so you may find coffee cup holders---cigarette lighter socket---and other accesories bla bla bla and 9 hard points.

OTOH---the JF17 is the product of an Air Force---. To the point---precise---functional in its utility---no show off---no pomp---just a pure work horse---.

Please remember---most fighter aircrafts would not be able to launch even a single missile before they got hit---Abhinandan's Mig 21 an example

Mastan Khan Account got hacked.

 

[Liquidmetal]

Hi,

Saab Grippen is made by a COMMERCIAL ENTITY---so you may find coffee cup holders---cigarette lighter socket---and other accesories bla bla bla and 9 hard points.

OTOH---the JF17 is the product of an Air Force---. To the point---precise---functional in its utility---no show off---no pomp---just a pure work horse---.

Please remember---most fighter aircrafts would not be able to launch even a single missile before they got hit---Abhinandan's Mig 21 an example

Mr Khan, as always to the point. Thanks.

 

[Nomad40]

I will go out on a limb and say this. NO AIRCRAFT IN THE INDO-PAK ARENA WILL GO OUT WITH A LOADOUT OF MORE THAN 4 BVRS AND POSSIBLY 2 WVRs. It would simply be madness to do any more than that in an arena where most FOBs are within 2-3oo miles of each other. You want a fighter to discharge its load ASAP against its targets and return to base. Can you imagine being in a MKI with 10BVRs hung up and 2 AMRAAMSchasing you. What else will you do other than jettison your load and run for your life. SO where is the advatage in having the capacity of having more than 4 BVRs? the reality of war and peace time photoshoots need to be understood. The (hypothetical) reality of a fight with the USAF/other force over the Pacific ocean would be a totally different scenario as there you are looking to engage multiple targets at stand off ranges and are on a longer loitering time.
A

That is an Unwritten LAW when you go to fight you take what is absolutely necessary (tank half empty 4-6 combi aam) which will give you 1-2 kill aspect any thing else is pure BS No matter the loitering time no matter the bogey count your front line attack is light&swift deliver the blow and let bravo formation do the rest.

 

[Mrc]

How many times in real life have an aircraft discharged 10 BVR and scored 10 kills??
Heck
How many times an aircraft has scored more than one BVR kills in real life ?

Probably never

I will go out on a limb and say this. NO AIRCRAFT IN THE INDO-PAK ARENA WILL GO OUT WITH A LOADOUT OF MORE THAN 4 BVRS AND POSSIBLY 2 WVRs. It would simply be madness to do any more than that in an arena where most FOBs are within 2-3oo miles of each other. You want a fighter to discharge its load ASAP against its targets and return to base. Can you imagine being in a MKI with 10BVRs hung up and 2 AMRAAMSchasing you. What else will you do other than jettison your load and run for your life. SO where is the advatage in having the capacity of having more than 4 BVRs? the reality of war and peace time photoshoots need to be understood. The (hypothetical) reality of a fight with the USAF/other force over the Pacific ocean would be a totally different scenario as there you are looking to engage multiple targets at stand off ranges and are on a longer loitering time.
A

 

[Nomad40]

How many times in real life have an aircraft discharged 10 BVR and scored 10 kills??
Heck
How many times an aircraft has scored more than one BVR kills in real life ?

Probably never

NEVER BVR firing is a game of hide and seek it is a game of speed & distance there are 5 processes that go to get missile off the rack and onto the target, The first shot is almost always to make the opponent go Defensive which is at a distance the 2nd and even sometimes 3rd shot is required to neutralize the target,that is of-course you shoot first and haven't been shot down by his buddy/missile yet.

 

[MastanKhan]

Mastan Khan Account got hacked.

Hi

Why do you say that?

 

[Trango Towers]

Swept Tail looks cool.

Loool. It's not there to look cool

We have seen F16s with al least 4 AMRAAMs, 2 Sidewinders + Fuel tanks perform these CAPs. How can the JF17 be an adequate substitute for that level of firepower with only 2 SD10s? ... or has PAF taken to flying 2 JF17s for every 1 F16 to compenstate for the deficiency ?? Does this not represent a degradation of CAP capbility near the LOC right when we need more ?

4 missile plus guns is plenty. Caps are usually flown in pairs. Plenty of firepower.

 

[Mrc]

NEVER BVR firing is a game of hide and seek it is a game of speed & distance there are 5 processes that go to get missile off the rack and onto the target, The first shot is almost always to make the opponent go Defensive which is at a distance the 2nd and even sometimes 3rd shot is required to neutralize the target,that is of-course you shoot first and haven't been shot down by his buddy/missile yet.

U have no idea what u are talking about.. ..


Those two carried have 99.999 percent kill probability in their no escape zone..

So never would a second shot b required for same plane if pilot knows what he is doing...


Its a new concept iaf will take few decades to understand . So keep flying with few dozen BVRs

 

[Nomad40]

U have no idea what u are talking about.. ..


Those two carried have 99.999 percent kill probability in their no escape zone..

So never would a second shot b required for same plane if pilot knows what he is doing...


Its a new concept iaf will take few decades to understand . So keep flying with few dozen BVRs

Trust me I only talk about what I know, can you tell me what are the distances of different shoot ques, how a BVR missile works, what is lofting, how many G can a bvr (120C) pull, Inertia vectors for the missile. Sir do you even know how close do you have to get to achieve a 99.99% kill ratio on the sd-10 and aim-120, sir can you tell me how long a rocket on an Aim-120 burns?. If not than I would actually be very very happy to discuss with my fellow Pakistani brothers to the best of my knowledge and ability and I would love the input of members because Iam no expert I am simply stating my opinions which if some one feels not accurate can respectfully deny and correct me.

 

[Mrc]

Trust me I only talk about what I know, can you tell me what are the distances of different shoot ques, how a BVR missile works, what is lofting, how many G can a bvr (120C) pull, Inertia vectors for the missile. Sir do you even know how close do you have to get to achieve a 99.99% kill ratio on the sd-10 and aim-120, sir can you tell me how long a rocket on an Aim-120 burns?. If not than I would actually be very very happy to discuss with my fellow Pakistani brothers to the best of my knowledge and ability and I would love the input of members because Iam no expert I am simply stating my opinions which if some one feels not accurate can respectfully deny and correct me.

How many times in a real life more than one BVR has been fired on same target?? kindly quote the source

 

[Nomad40]

How many times in a real life more than one BVR has been fired on same target?? kindly quote the source

Only god know's (Information is never ever disclosed) but we can only guess from tactics and numbers, I would ask you the same question of how many BVR hits/Confirm kills are recorded with one missile shot or a Long distance shot but I know very well that you dont know because (read the first 8 words).

 

[JohnWick]

I will go out on a limb and say this. NO AIRCRAFT IN THE INDO-PAK ARENA WILL GO OUT WITH A LOADOUT OF MORE THAN 4 BVRS AND POSSIBLY 2 WVRs. It would simply be madness to do any more than that in an arena where most FOBs are within 2-3oo miles of each other. You want a fighter to discharge its load ASAP against its targets and return to base. Can you imagine being in a MKI with 10BVRs hung up and 2 AMRAAMSchasing you. What else will you do other than jettison your load and run for your life. SO where is the advatage in having the capacity of having more than 4 BVRs? the reality of war and peace time photoshoots need to be understood. The (hypothetical) reality of a fight with the USAF/other force over the Pacific ocean would be a totally different scenario as there you are looking to engage multiple targets at stand off ranges and are on a longer loitering time.
A

Its a creative discussion and No offence to anyone at all....
Mki with his thrust vectoring And high flares deployment capacity can easily evade 1 or may be 2 AMRAAMS if it is in the hand of a capable pilot not like 27 Feb maroon and Mki with PESA radar and with AWACS support can deploy it's BVRs before AMRAAM....
It was no offence at all.... I was only saying that caring only 2 BVRs is not sufficient
It should be at least 4 and every wise person will agree with me.
As far as your question about having
4 BVRs....What do you think Lookheed Martin,Boeing,Dassualt Aviation,General Dynamics, and Sukhoi company are some kind of FOOLISH TO DESIGN jets capable of caring more than 4 damn BVRs???? or you are wise enough than them?
Again no offence I am as patriotic Pakistani as anyone else but When you able to understand that you will have your answer....

 

[Mrc]

Only god know's (Information is never ever disclosed) but we can only guess from tactics and numbers, I would ask you the same question of how many BVR hits/Confirm kills are recorded with one missile shot or a Long distance shot but I know very well that you dont know because (read the first 8 words).

Well I know of 2 confirmed single shot long distance kills .. In Feb last year .. one was a sukhoi and other one was mig 21