JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[PakEye]

sooo ?? kia hoa usko

very simple the picture showing Only
Indigenous Avionics Integration of Standoff Weapons
Avionics Production Factory
no details
now question to you
sooo kia hoa thaa ???

 

[messiach]

I have got great professional relationship with all my former colleagues. When we exit a military organisation, there is a proper debriefing process, ensuring safe exit. Overhauling is a lolypop & its like assembling suzukis. PAF is not responsible for turbine development, it should be an initiative from the government. Embedded within this civil military administration are 'agents' which somehow or the other have always managed to suppress any effort for technological independence. That is a fact.

Thank hou very much for a series of very informative posts. I get the distinct impression that you were part of that project and felt really hard done by the way in which it was scuppered by the high ups. I agree we have a history of taking short cuts and the easy way out rather than putting the elbow greese in to our efforts. Please do continue to share whatever you feel safe sharing .
Regards.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I have got great professional relationship with all my former colleagues. When we exit a military organisation, there is a proper debriefing process, ensuring safe exit. Overhauling is a lolypop & its like assembling suzukis. PAF is not responsible for turbine development, it should be an initiative from the government. Embedded within this civil military administration are 'agents' which somehow or the other have always managed to suppress any effort for technological independence. That is a fact.

when you say "agents" you mean greedy generals/politicians right?

would you say theres a need for large scale turbine development? personally i dont think so at a large scale. why develop something when you can just buy it with ease (from china) granted there having problems of their own and are making progress. but i dont see the point.
in the future when pakistan is in a better fiscal position then yes.
you can start small with uav/cruise missile missile engine and work up from that like the japanese. i assume the engines powering the babur and raad are indigenous right?

 

[messiach]

'Agents' - my experience federal bureaucracy generally. Turbine development small or large - is a matter of survival for large scale manufacturing, EPPs, water distribution, cotton based manufacturing, packaging. This argument of 'why develop something when you can buy it from china' reminds me of bahadur shah zafar's - Dilli door ast. China is not the panacea. Cruise turbines - local product, but that's not comparable here.

when you say "agents" you mean greedy generals/politicians right?

would you say theres a need for large scale turbine development? personally i dont think so at a large scale. why develop something when you can just buy it with ease (from china) granted there having problems of their own and are making progress. but i dont see the point.
in the future when pakistan is in a better fiscal position then yes.
you can start small with uav/cruise missile missile engine and work up from that like the japanese. i assume the engines powering the babur and raad are indigenous right?

 

[araz]

I have got great professional relationship with all my former colleagues. When we exit a military organisation, there is a proper debriefing process, ensuring safe exit. Overhauling is a lolypop & its like assembling suzukis. PAF is not responsible for turbine development, it should be an initiative from the government. Embedded within this civil military administration are 'agents' which somehow or the other have always managed to suppress any effort for technological independence. That is a fact.

I get your point however two things remain unanswered. Firstly your own involvement in the indegenous efforts to start research into turbines and secondly how much is lack of money a factor in this reluctance to embark on projects which are proverbial black holes and can sink a lot of money withput any tangible outcomes. With a serious lack of research into metallurgy and other allied fields how much of a chance was there of succeeding. I have read your posts with interest and have digested them therefore no need to refer back to what you have said earlier.
I also understand FULLY the concept of AGENTS in the government/forces who are out to ensure that certain technologies are kept away from us for their own petty gains.
Please understand we want to learn from your experience rather than hassle you unnecessarily. I always say to every professional and so to you as well, please share only that which you are comfortable sharing not that you need reminding but to reiterate our appreciation that there may be experiences/ events that cannot be shared on open fora.
Regards
ps: I remember your involvement at Chengdu but the question asked is re the indiviual research into turbines.
Regards
A

 

[MastanKhan]

'Agents' - my experience federal bureaucracy generally. Turbine development small or large - is a matter of survival for large scale manufacturing, EPPs, water distribution, cotton based manufacturing, packaging. This argument of 'why develop something when you can buy it from china' reminds me of bahadur shah zafar's - Dilli door ast. China is not the panacea. Cruise turbines - local product, but that's not comparable here.

Hi,

Thank you very much for your post---. We are facing the same problem in the U S as well---. Why develop when you can buy it from china---it's quality is acceptable and it is cheaper---.

Ma'am---it is the time for World Economy today---. But if we had used the opportune moment some 20 plus years ago to start the base---it would be fine---we would have any problem in having production now---.

But to invest in it now---for a nation the size of pakistan---it is not feasible. You would rather buy the patent / design and produce it under TOT---if need be but other than that---there is not much that can be done now---.

Now---how many nations can boast that they can maintain and service the RD93.

How many nations can claim that they can build their own nuc reactors---we can---and that of our OWN design---by our own scientist---did you know that---( even though Dr Bashiruddin Mahmood wants to take credit---they are not his design---the designer passed away many a years ago ). And not only in pakistan---some of his designs maybe used in the U S and one other place as well.

 

[MystryMan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/841136778241286144

 

[Director General]

. i assume the engines powering the babur and raad are indigenous right?

No, None of them use Pakistani engines.

 

[khanasifm]

REK. Basically, Pakistan's locally-built counterpart to the JDAM-ER and you can actually see it in the illustration.

JDAM ER accuracy, launch height and Range vs REK

The Pentagon claims that JDAM bomb accuracy is about 13 meters CEP (Circular Error Probable), but according to Boeing sources JDAM accuracy is 9.6 meters CEP. Without the GPS guidance system using only the INS guidance system JDAM accuracy is 30 meters.
The JDAM ER bomb will feature a range in excess of 35 miles through the addition of folding wings. In May 2011, the JDAM ER was in demonstration with an international customer with airframe modifications designed to increase the stand-off range to approximately 40 miles.

Max Launch Altitude: 13,700 meter

http://www.deagel.com/Bombs-and-Guidance-Kits/JDAM-ER_a001074004.aspx

 

[The Accountant]

Hi,

Thank you very much for your post---. We are facing the same problem in the U S as well---. Why develop when you can buy it from china---it's quality is acceptable and it is cheaper---.

Ma'am---it is the time for World Economy today---. But if we had used the opportune moment some 20 plus years ago to start the base---it would be fine---we would have any problem in having production now---.

But to invest in it now---for a nation the size of Pakistan---it is not feasible. You would rather buy the patent / design and produce it under TOT---if need be but other than that---there is not much that can be done now---.

Now---how many nations can boast that they can maintain and service the RD93.

How many nations can claim that they can build their own nuc reactors---we can---and that of our OWN design---by our own scientist---did you know that---( even though Dr Bashiruddin Mahmood wants to take credit ). And not only in pakistan---some of his designs are used in the U S as well.

MK, some post of yours are really annoying especially when you go to bashing and insulting others to extreme hight ... But purely from knowledge understanding point of view of the general principle of the world be it defence, economy, politics and strategies, your post is not just worth reading but also a source of learning ...

I am surprised to see how do you manage to acquire understanding of such vast knowledge in diverse fields ...

Kindly share some tips with us so that we can get benefit from your learning ...

 

[HannibalBarca]

MK, some post of yours are really annoying especially when you go to bashing and insulting others to extreme hight ... But purely from knowledge understanding point of view of the general principle of the world be it defence, economy, politics and strategies, your post is not just worth reading but also a source of learning ...

I am surprised to see how do you manage to acquire understanding of such vast knowledge in diverse fields ...

Kindly share some tips with us so that we can get benefit from your learning ...

wanna learn? then Iqraa, Iqraa and Iqraa.

 

[TaimiKhan]

No, None of them use Pakistani engines.

Yeah you are right. They are procured from DRDO.

 

[messiach]

Firstly your own involvement in the indegenous efforts to start research into turbines and secondly how much is lack of money a factor in this reluctance to embark on projects which are proverbial black holes and can sink a lot of money withput any tangible outcomes.

Some basic information is in portfolio. To add, my work specifics included ACI - axel engineering for AL-31 & variants for the jian project. In-addition Aug. Bypass characterization for lyulka-NPO saturn & RD33 fans. This should be enough.
Your Q. referring to 'indegenous efforts to start research into turbines' , this is a long story.

Your querry referring to 'lack of money a factor in this reluctance to embark on projects' is just a myth carried over time and again until it starts to look and feel true. Neither money, nor resources or metallurgical skills have anything to do with turbine engineering in the times we stand today. This could have been true in early 70. Even early 70's, perhaps you are aware of it, we had an engineering house in lahore, by BECO. That was nationalised by Mr ZA bhutto. Prior to nationalisation, BECO produced military grade steel used in chasis for army and airforce vehicles and jeeps. Post nationalisation, BECO fell to its knees & virtually disintegrated into bits (thks to federal bureaucracy), most of the engineering were hired by european and german engineering groups. The chasis of german car Audi today is fundamentally the same chasis-type with a lot of similarities to the one once produced @ BECO HQ in lahore.

 

[Blue Marlin]

This argument of 'why develop something when you can buy it from china' reminds me of bahadur shah zafar's - Dilli door ast. China is not the panacea. Cruise turbines - local product, but that's not comparable here.

do you mind translating the red bit

 

[messiach]

But to invest in it now---for a nation the size of pakistan---it is not feasible. You would rather buy the patent / design and produce it under TOT---if need be but other than that---there is not much that can be done now---.

Refer to my reply to araz - neither money nor metallurgical skills or long incubation periods have anything to do with turbine engineering in the Pakistan of 2017. Its mostly to do with political pressures. These are incessantly repeated myths.