JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Blue Marlin]

Yeah you are right. They are procured from DRDO.

not even from india, the nirbhay uses russain engines http://www.npo-saturn.ru/?sat=69

 

[messiach]

Axel engineers have 'zero tolerance' for the word overhauling. We need to get our act together politically.

Now---how many nations can boast that they can maintain and service the RD93.

Nizamuddin Auliya not bahadar shah - Delli door ast - Dehli is far away. Not ridiculing, Emphasizing.

do you mind translating the red bit

 

[Blue Marlin]

Axel engineers have 'zero tolerance' to the word overhauling. We need to get our act together politically.


Nizamuddin Auliya not bahadar shah - Delli door ast - Dehli is far away.

i dont know if you haven't noticed but im not pakistani or indian for that matter. i still dont get you.

what do you mean by dehli is far away?

 

[The Accountant]

Some basic information is in portfolio. To add, my work specifics included ACI - axel engineering for AL-31 & variants for the jian project. In-addition Aug. Bypass characterization for lyulka-NPO saturn & RD33 fans. This should be enough.
Your Q. referring to 'indegenous efforts to start research into turbines' , this is a long story.

Your querry referring to 'lack of money a factor in this reluctance to embark on projects' is just a myth carried over time and again until it starts to look and feel true. Neither money, nor resources or metallurgical skills have anything to do with turbine engineering in the times we stand today. This could have been true in early 70. Even early 70's, perhaps you are aware of it, we had an engineering house in lahore, by BECO. That was nationalised by Mr ZA bhutto. Prior to nationalisation, BECO produced military grade steel used in chasis for army and airforce vehicles and jeeps. Post nationalisation, BECO fell to its knees & virtually disintegrated into bits (thks to federal bureaucracy), most of the engineering were hired by european and german engineering groups. The chasis of german car Audi today is fundamentally the same chasis-type with a lot of similarities to the one once produced @ BECO HQ in lahore.

Really unfortunate ... bhuttos nationalisation destroyed us ...

 

[Thunder.Storm]

i dont know if you haven't noticed but im not pakistani or indian for that matter. i still dont get you.

what do you mean by dehli is far away?

If you want to understand it then it is a very long story behind that quote. but in summary a king was attacking dehli but dehli ruler was busy in enjoying life when his people ask him they are coming so in reply that ruler told them stay calm dehli is far away and then the day came when the attacker king arrived to dehli and the ruler of dehli had to leave that kingdom because of his laziness . i think i made some mistakes in the story but i remember this far. and i think the king of dehli in that time was Ahmad Shah Rangella.

 

[Arsalan]

Thank you very much Mr. Chak Bamu. I have been following this forum carefully from years ago but not participating. The Thunder is one of the planes that I consider suitable for the air force of my country and that is why I keep informed on its evolution.

Best regards

I see that you have been part of the forum since 2009 (joined back in 2009) but these were your first posts here in this forum. So yes, welcome to the forum sir. I hope you will be contributing more going forward and we will get to know more about you and your country’s military, thanks to your presence on this forum.

Have a great time.

Really unfortunate ... bhuttos nationalisation destroyed us ...

100% true!!

 

[araz]

i dont know if you haven't noticed but im not pakistani or indian for that matter. i still dont get you.

what do you mean by dehli is far away?

Aurangzeb Alamgir was hell bent on eradicating the Sufi saints and their mosoleums. He went far and wide and destroyed many shrines, he was returning to take care of Nizamuddin Auliyya a Saint of his time. When the news reached NIzamuddin Auliyya Rahimahu Allah he uttered the famous words. "Hunouz Dilli Door ast"(persian for Dehli is still far away). His words became famous as they turned out to be true and Aurangzeb died on the way to Dehli. So now we use the phrase for an event which has a lot of uncertainties involed.

 

[fatman17]

When is the B model first flight going to be? It was mentioned that it would b inducted by April 2017 in PAF.

Not inducted but first flight

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Some basic information is in portfolio. To add, my work specifics included ACI - axel engineering for AL-31 & variants for the jian project. In-addition Aug. Bypass characterization for lyulka-NPO saturn & RD33 fans. This should be enough.
Your Q. referring to 'indegenous efforts to start research into turbines' , this is a long story.

Your querry referring to 'lack of money a factor in this reluctance to embark on projects' is just a myth carried over time and again until it starts to look and feel true. Neither money, nor resources or metallurgical skills have anything to do with turbine engineering in the times we stand today. This could have been true in early 70. Even early 70's, perhaps you are aware of it, we had an engineering house in lahore, by BECO. That was nationalised by Mr ZA bhutto. Prior to nationalisation, BECO produced military grade steel used in chasis for army and airforce vehicles and jeeps. Post nationalisation, BECO fell to its knees & virtually disintegrated into bits (thks to federal bureaucracy), most of the engineering were hired by european and german engineering groups. The chasis of german car Audi today is fundamentally the same chasis-type with a lot of similarities to the one once produced @ BECO HQ in lahore.

A little off topic;

BECO also produced the country's first Diesel engine for CJ-5/M38 series jeeps which were produced in Pak during Gen Ayubs era.

Recently I learnt that once such a sophisticated industry has now been reduced to producing spare parts for tractors thanks to ZABs failed nationalisation initiatives which effectively destroyed all industries of the country, and at minimum put them 10 years behind.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Refer to my reply to araz - neither money nor metallurgical skills or long incubation periods have anything to do with turbine engineering in the Pakistan of 2017. Its mostly to do with political pressures. These are incessantly repeated myths.

Dear madam,

Firstly, many thanks for providing free education here at PDF. We outsiders learn a lot from people like yourself!

The industrialsation of Pak of 60' and 70' was a shinny example for all East Asians including China. Some even came to your good country to 'learn' from your experience. And what have you become now...but hope is never lost.

Policies can retard/arrest development or they can unleash innovation and progress.

One wonders why would Pak State axe its own roots.

However, let us choose a positive discourse... what in your studied opinion should Pak State do to anchor industrial/manufaturing resurrection in your old country?

Regards,

SPF

 

[MastanKhan]

A little off topic;

BECO also produced the country's first Diesel engine for CJ-5/M38 series jeeps which were produced in Pak during Gen Ayubs era.

Recently I learnt that once such a sophisticated industry has now been reduced to producing spare parts for tractors thanks to ZABs failed nationalisation initiatives which effectively destroyed all industries of the country, and at minimum put them 10 years behind.

Hi,

50 years behind would be the right term---.

 

[ziaulislam]

A little off topic;

BECO also produced the country's first Diesel engine for CJ-5/M38 series jeeps which were produced in Pak during Gen Ayubs era.

Recently I learnt that once such a sophisticated industry has now been reduced to producing spare parts for tractors thanks to ZABs failed nationalisation initiatives which effectively destroyed all industries of the country, and at minimum put them 10 years behind.

Pakistan would have been the new korea , Malaysia had ZAB not destroyed every industry in pakistan, this destruction lasted for 10+ years and when we just started to recover in 80s we were hit again by sanctions.
More recovery simply didnt happened afterwards as better destinations became available

 

[Blue Marlin]

Aurangzeb Alamgir was hell bent on eradicating the Sufi saints and their mosoleums. He went far and wide and destroyed many shrines, he was returning to take care of Nizamuddin Auliyya a Saint of his time. When the news reached NIzamuddin Auliyya Rahimahu Allah he uttered the famous words. "Hunouz Dilli Door ast"(persian for Dehli is still far away). His words became famous as they turned out to be true and Aurangzeb died on the way to Dehli. So now we use the phrase for an event which has a lot of uncertainties involed.

so in regards to messiah's post then it would be seen as chill out dont worry about it.

 

[Thorough Pro]

You don't start to recover so quickly. Once you nationalize the industry and take away the businesses and industries from their rightful owners and give it to incompetent political yes men, no one in his right mind ever thinks of investing again.

The amazing thing is even BB announced that she will nationalize the industry again during her first (I am forgetting was it first or second) tenure.

Political stability also plays a very important role in giving confidence to investors to invest their money. Throughout late 80's, whole of 90's and up to 2013 MQM's terrorism and hooliganism also played a major role in keeping any new investments coming to Sind.

Pakistan would have been the new korea , Malaysia had ZAB not destroyed every industry in pakistan, this destruction lasted for 10+ years and when we just started to recover in 80s we were hit again by sanctions.
More recovery simply didnt happened afterwards as better destinations became available

 

[My-Analogous]

Hi,

Thank you very much for your post---. We are facing the same problem in the U S as well---. Why develop when you can buy it from china---it's quality is acceptable and it is cheaper---.

Ma'am---it is the time for World Economy today---. But if we had used the opportune moment some 20 plus years ago to start the base---it would be fine---we would have any problem in having production now---.

But to invest in it now---for a nation the size of pakistan---it is not feasible. You would rather buy the patent / design and produce it under TOT---if need be but other than that---there is not much that can be done now---.

Now---how many nations can boast that they can maintain and service the RD93.

How many nations can claim that they can build their own nuc reactors---we can---and that of our OWN design---by our own scientist---did you know that---( even though Dr Bashiruddin Mahmood wants to take credit---they are not his design---the designer passed away many a years ago ). And not only in pakistan---some of his designs maybe used in the U S and one other place as well.

Can you please mention that Nuclear scientist name please