JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]

[VCheng]

I think you should quit the pointless rant, JFT is developed for PAF initially keeping in mind the specs Pakistan Air Force needed this should be more than enough for you whether Pak applies 80's 90's technologies or not leave it to them if it exceed the requirements more than other 3 Types in service that is huge boost for PAF with-in budget. Yeah right bangla example tried to play but failed. Second being an arm chair general you are in no position to declare this platform's sales of the future to be zero YOU DON'T KNOW zilch. Lastly the blocks that this aircraft is going to come in is meant to incrementally apply latest technologies keeping the costs in mind eventually this aircraft is going to be around $30m or so naturally affordable? of course! the economy is not going to be 1% nor is it. BACK TO Thread topic.

Export sales to date = Zero.

Export orders in hand = Zilch.

Real claims of interest = Nada.

(Seems like my not knowing "zilch" is pretty accurate for the JF-17. )


But I do agree with you that the JF-17 is a great choice for PAF and will fulfill many of its needs in an affordable manner for the next few decades. Yes.

 

[SQ8]

Carlo Kopp? Heck no, to many here, I am the left hand of Satan himself, apparently.

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Back to the topic, are there any updates to the new Chinese engine for the JF-17?

Perhaps not the left hand of satan.. but a combination of Hasan Nisar and a scorned mistress(To Pakistan).

The engine has been flown and tested but circa 2011 the JF-17 program leads were not interested in it. Apparently the Russians are fairly willing to give up further RD-93s and even offer more powerful variants.

 

[user1]

Export sales to date = Zero.

Export orders in hand = Zilch.

Real claims of interest = Nada.

(Seems like my not knowing "zilch" is pretty accurate for the JF-17. )


But I do agree with you that the JF-17 is a great choice for PAF and will fulfill many of its needs in an affordable manner for the next few decades. Yes.

In our urdu textbook of High School, their used to be any essay written by Akhtar Riaz-uddin in which she told (about the Japan of 60s) World buys everything Japanese except cars. Nobody buys Japanese cars. Compare that time with today.

Not to worry about JF-17 yet; at the time of independence, there was no defence industry in Pakistan and India did not hand over most of the Military equipment to Pakistan. Now Pakistan sells many of it's weapons in International market.Al-Khalid, Baktar-Shikan, Anza, Mushshak, Super-Mushshak to name a few.

One day, JF-17 will also be included in the list, Insha Allah. It's just a matter of time.

 

[ziaulislam]

Export sales to date = Zero.

Export orders in hand = Zilch.

Real claims of interest = Nada.

(Seems like my not knowing "zilch" is pretty accurate for the JF-17. )


But I do agree with you that the JF-17 is a great choice for PAF and will fulfill many of its needs in an affordable manner for the next few decades. Yes.

first all even if JF-17 gets zero exports it will be and is a sucess.

second whats the basis of your claim that interest is zero?
unless of course you are chief program manager for jf-17 sales.
their are clear cut reports from offical sources that claims that atleast some interest has been shown. these reports come not only from PAF ,CAC but also from intersted partis like eygpt and argentina.
now saying that no interest has been shown by you means either you are ignorant or arrogant, making any sort of discussion with you meaningless

 

[Luftwaffe]

Export sales to date = Zero.

Export orders in hand = Zilch. Real claims of interest = Nada. (Seems like my not knowing "zilch" is pretty accurate for the JF-17. )

But I do agree with you that the JF-17 is a great choice for PAF and will fulfill many of its needs in an affordable manner for the next few decades. Yes.

What part did you not understand "Future Sales", "Pak requirements first to be fulfilled", you won't stop pointless rant so I think I should ask @Oscar to control the situation. You are pretty inaccurate when you are told by multiple members about future sales while you demand current status what is already known the men at PAC already explained first their requirements to be fulfilled, how many F-35s are sold? wait glitches problems less cash delays...if you catch the drift...orders means nothing until delivered confirmed, again stop moving in circles it would take time it is not like selling mitahi.

 

[Kompromat]

What part did you not understand "Future Sales", "Pak requirements first to be fulfilled", you won't stop pointless rant so I think I should ask @Oscar to control the situation. You are pretty inaccurate when you are told by multiple members about future sales while you demand current status what is already known the men at PAC already explained first their requirements to be fulfilled, how many F-35s are sold? wait glitches problems less cash delays...if you catch the drift...orders means nothing until delivered confirmed, again stop moving in circles it would take time it is not like selling mitahi.

If he stops ranting, how do you think he is going to 'stand out from the crowd'?

 

[VCheng]

.................
The engine has been flown and tested but circa 2011 the JF-17 program leads were not interested in it. Apparently the Russians are fairly willing to give up further RD-93s and even offer more powerful variants.

Keeping the Russian engine will keep the program dependent on a third country. Full indigenization would still be important as a goal, if the Chinese engine is good enough. May be it is not? The newer variants of the RD-93 are indeed more powerful, but even their MTBOs are still not up to world standards yet.

 

[Kompromat]

Keeping the Russian engine will keep the program dependent on a third country. Full indigenization would still be important as a goal, if the Chinese engine is good enough. May be it is not? The newer variants of the RD-93 are indeed more powerful, but even their MTBOs are still not up to world standards yet.

There is no option until WS-13/A matures.

 

[mjnaushad]

In our urdu textbook of High School, their used to be any essay written by Akhtar Riaz-uddin in which she told (about the Japan of 60s) World buys everything Japanese except cars. Nobody buys Japanese cars. Compare that time with today.

Not to worry about JF-17 yet; at the time of independence, there was no defence industry in Pakistan and India did not hand over most of the Military equipment to Pakistan. Now Pakistan sells many of it's weapons in International market.Al-Khalid, Baktar-Shikan, Anza, Mushshak, Super-Mushshak to name a few.

One day, JF-17 will also be included in the list, Insha Allah. It's just a matter of time.

Who did we sell Al Khalid too??? Anza, mushak etc are nothing more than license production. .. I'll feel proud when we will come with actual innovation and not license production. ..

 

[fatman17]

the most important aspect of the JFT program is to replace the legacy a/c in PAF inventory with a superior a/c which the JFT is.
export of the FC-1 not JFT would be a 'good to have'. its not critical. the cost of the JFT is very affordable at this point.

having said that all it takes is one export order to trigger a chain reaction....

 

[graphican]

Has there not been a confirmed order from Azerbaijan? A while ago we had learned that it was!

 

[Munir]

Posters tend to forget that block 1 was merely to gain sufficient testing for basic capabilities. The weapons were infrared wvr and unguided bombs. One cannot sell that to international customers. You need an fully upgraded variant (which can be seen as block 2) and we will gradually see more serious customers. And as far as I am informed the customers can get their own versions from block 2 onwards...

 

[SQ8]

Keeping the Russian engine will keep the program dependent on a third country. Full indigenization would still be important as a goal, if the Chinese engine is good enough. May be it is not? The newer variants of the RD-93 are indeed more powerful, but even their MTBOs are still not up to world standards yet.

I would not be entirely sure, the PAF has been in direct contact with the Russians and works with the manufacturer to improve MTBO rates. You are basing MTBO on the old RD-33 series while the current RD-93(which draws upon the improvements in quality and maintenance of the RD-33 series 3 and MK improvements) has a MTBO of 4000 hours.

 

[Chak Bamu]

If anyone does not like someone else's posts. It is best to ignore and not start a needless OT discussion. Opinions are just opinions, everybody has them. No need to get riled up if someone is being cynical.

On topic: Does anyone know the progress made by WS-13. It has been in testing on FC-1 for quite sometime now. Perhaps the information is classified, but still ANY news would be welcome.

I would not be entirely sure, the PAF has been in direct contact with the Russians and works with the manufacturer to improve MTBO rates. You are basing MTBO on the old RD-33 series while the current RD-93(which draws upon the improvements in quality and maintenance of the RD-33 series 3 and MK improvements) has a MTBO of 4000 hours.

@Oscar I trust your information, but can you please provide a reference if possible? Or is this information somehow classified? There is a world of difference in 400 hrs and 4000 hrs. It would be nice to have some reference.

 

[SQ8]

If anyone does not like someone else's posts. It is best to ignore and not start a needless OT discussion. Opinions are just opinions, everybody has them. No need to get riled up if someone is being cynical.

On topic: Does anyone know the progress made by WS-13. It has been in testing on FC-1 for quite sometime now. Perhaps the information is classified, but still ANY news would be welcome.



@Oscar I trust your information, but can you please provide a reference if possible? Or is this information somehow classified? There is a world of difference in 400 hrs and 4000 hrs. It would be nice to have some reference.

Not classified at all. Just a little mistake in classification Available on Klimov website as 4000 hours is the service life of the newest variant.. however I'd take the average 3000 hours as more realisitic. That being said, the RD-93 might be closer to 2000(although sources say otherwise but lets stick to published facts). Even then, the F-404 has a MTBO for its "hot" components at 2000 hours while its "cold" stages are good for 4000 hours.