JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]

[FunkyGen]

mach speed 2+ is needed. well you can not expect more from a single engine aircraft [/quote]


mach 2 speed for what?...... intercepting? i don't think so, future air battles will be fought based on stealth, multiple assets will be connected via a data link and will be fighting as one and some other technical mumbo jumbo. Plus why put the pilot through so much stress? better develop technologies that give him/her more situational awareness than develop costly engines for fighters.

Fran

I'm amazed PAF is still keeping H-2 & H-4 under wrap. Don't know what's so special about them

Frankly speaking i don't think we are capable of producing any "out of this world tech.". Better unveil these goodies at the next ideas and earn some bucks and invest the dough in setting up more defense firms in our country.

 

[syed absar hussain]

So from where JFT will be carrying 4 SD-10 A u mentioned above??

yes, as Pakistan Air Force has confirmed that it will purchase SD-10A beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) to equip its planned force of over 250 JF-17 fighter jets. This has been stated by the Rao Qamar Suleman, air chief marshal of the Pakistan Air Force.

Chinese SD-10A BVRAAM were displayed alongside two Pakistan Air Force (PAF) JF-17 Thunder fighters at the Farnborough Air Show 2010. Model of JF-17 Thunder was displayed at the Farnborough Air Show 2010 with six air-to-air missiles incorporated in its wings four of which were SD-10A BVRAAMs.

 

[RAMPAGE]

So from where JFT will be carrying 4 SD-10 A u mentioned above??

The guy is copy-pasting from old articles. !!!

First he says H-4 is a BVR and them he says that it's a Guided bomb !!!

Btw where have you been ???

 

[The Deterrent]

Mupsow was evolved in to Ra'ad. H-2 is a PGM of 60 KM, yet it is not shown to "pakistani public" still after 10 years of it's inception while Takbir is made public. H-4 remains a true mystery.

Ra'ad ALCM has little to do with MUPSOW, rather Ra'ad was derived from Babur GLCM as its modified air-launched variant.

 

[Gentelman]

The guy is copy-pasting from old articles. !!!

First he says H-4 is a BVR and them he says that it's a Guided bomb !!!

Btw where have you been ???

Been to 2nd year FSc
Just subscribed to zong net yesterday so here I am.
Well in absence frm here i were bzy in Pakistani Music nd Dramas(not studying tough:p)

 

[farhan_9909]

Ra'ad ALCM has little to do with MUPSOW, rather Ra'ad was derived from Babur GLCM as its modified air-launched variant.

Considering that How much Time Pakistan takes on Changes minor feature in a system

How is it possible that they Completely changed the design from Babur to ALCM in just 2years

Babur was first tested in august 2005 while Raa'd in August 2007

 

[The Deterrent]

Considering that How much Time Pakistan takes on Changes minor feature in a system

How is it possible that they Completely changed the design from Babur to ALCM in just 2years

Babur was first tested in august 2005 while Raa'd in August 2007

What system are you referring to, that took too much time to have minor changes?

Only the external design was changed. AWC developed the airframe of Ra'ad in accordance with the capabilities of the aircrafts, so that it had lesser length (hence lesser fuel capacity) and boxy fuselage for more ground clearance. The rudders were also modified to the same as those of H-4/Raptor-II.
The internal systems such as the engine, avionics, guidance, warhead, air-inlet etc remained the same.

Besides, one should assume that work on Ra'ad must have started earlier than 2005 (while Babur was still in development), as a longer range ALCM was a requirement for the PAF.

 

[Armstrong]

What system are you referring to, that took too much time to have minor changes?

Only the external design was changed. AWC developed the airframe of Ra'ad in accordance with the capabilities of the aircrafts, so that it had lesser length (hence lesser fuel capacity) and boxy fuselage for more ground clearance. The rudders were also modified to the same as those of H-4/Raptor-II.
The internal systems such as the engine, avionics, guidance, warhead, air-inlet etc remained the same.

Besides, one should assume that work on Ra'ad must have started earlier than 2005 (while Babur was still in development), as a longer range ALCM was a requirement for the PAF.

Waisee what would be per unit cost of a Ra'ad ?

Or better yet - Do you think it would economical enough for us to procure in large amounts to use, in case of War, as a Stand-Off weapons against High-Valued Installations etc. or would we be required to break the bank every time we even think of procuring a dozen or so of these ?

 

[The Deterrent]

Waisee what would be per unit cost of a Ra'ad ?

Or better yet - Do you think it would economical enough for us to procure in large amounts to use, in case of War, as a Stand-Off weapons against High-Valued Installations etc. or would we be required to break the bank every time we even think of procuring a dozen or so of these ?

Not more than $4-500,000 would be my guess, but its just an approximate estimate.

It could be, depends on the production costs. So far it is being considered for the nuclear role only (because of lack of precise terminal guidance i.e. a Radar/IR seeker). In the future, conventionally armed Ra'ads might be produced if the production line is ramped up.

 

[Bratva]

Ra'ad ALCM has little to do with MUPSOW, rather Ra'ad was derived from Babur GLCM as its modified air-launched variant.

What system are you referring to, that took too much time to have minor changes?

Only the external design was changed. AWC developed the airframe of Ra'ad in accordance with the capabilities of the aircrafts, so that it had lesser length (hence lesser fuel capacity) and boxy fuselage for more ground clearance. The rudders were also modified to the same as those of H-4/Raptor-II.
The internal systems such as the engine, avionics, guidance, warhead, air-inlet etc remained the same.

Besides, one should assume that work on Ra'ad must have started earlier than 2005 (while Babur was still in development), as a longer range ALCM was a requirement for the PAF.

By MUPSOW, I meant the external design. Obviously the internal systems are borrowed from GLCM program. My assumption is based on two things, one on active South African assistance in early 2000's. H-2/H-4 and many rumors reported MUPSOW was also offered to PAF and second the pics of MUPSOW.

P.S. The system he is referring to I guess is Shaheen 1 A

Not more than $4-500,000 would be my guess, but its just an approximate estimate.

It could be, depends on the production costs. So far it is being considered for the nuclear role only (because of lack of precise terminal guidance i.e. a Radar/IR seeker). In the future, conventionally armed Ra'ads might be produced if the production line is ramped up.

But wouldn't aforementioned guidance is needed to hit moving targets? While in current configuration Ra'ad is capable to hit static targets?

 

[SQ8]

Sometimes things are more obvious than all the speculations need be. Pakistan has been dealing with the South Africans since the Apartheid ended and their industry needed the money. There are still South African engineers assisting us in various programs. The H-2 was originally a South African program running since the 70's. That weapon entered South African service back in the Angolan wars. As they progressed to MUPSOW.. but it was pitched to Pakistan and we ordered it and tweaked it to modern standards. The H-2 designation is that of Kentron and nothing to do with Pakistan. Today that weapon is known as the Raptor-I.

The primary delivery system adopted for the nuclear weapons built by Armscor in the 1980s was a television-guided air-to-surface glide bomb known as the H2.

http://www.qc.edu/political_science/profmat/Israel and the South African bomb.pdf
The South African Air Force

The H-4( carried on from the H-2) is the Raptor-II system. Both are now in service with the PAF. One caters to targets at 60km.. the other for deeper targets at 120km. And that is that.

The Ra'ad has assistance from the same outside industry experts as other Pakistani weapons. However, to save costs it may use the same engine from the Babur along with perhaps similar guidance sets(which are really quite simple if you get to see them). Having long discourses on that is pointless. The system exists, it is operational and is in constant improvement as well. To get an Idea,India was spurred on the purchase of the Popeye derivative system by the presence of the Raptor systems.

 

[alimobin memon]

This is "strictly" the translation of the above page so dont go on and make stories of it.

Whats wrong with you ? Who is making stories of anything. Dont reply me if you have to be mean!.
I didn't join this forum to be harsh or so there is mention of 100 Kn that is so. U think I am making stories its ur issue. Check the second line 100 then some chinese and RD 33. Thats why I said.
NO thanks !

 

[The Deterrent]

By MUPSOW, I meant the external design. Obviously the internal systems are borrowed from GLCM program. My assumption is based on two things, one on active South African assistance in early 2000's. H-2/H-4 and many rumors reported MUPSOW was also offered to PAF and second the pics of MUPSOW.

P.S. The system he is referring to I guess is Shaheen 1 A

Agreed, but everything required for ALCM development was already provided by Babur and H-4, so there wasn't any need of input from the MUPSOW.

Shaheen-IA is a part of the modernization process of the strategic ballistic missile programme. It was introduced that late because Shaheen-I and Ghauri were good enough until now. As per today's standards, both Shaheen-I and Ghauri are becoming obsolete in both technological and operational terms.

But wouldn't aforementioned guidance is needed to hit moving targets? While in current configuration Ra'ad is capable to hit static targets?

Yes, true that. But further terminal guidance (such as that provided by an EO seeker) is necessary to hit conventional target such as bunkers etc. So far the DSMAC + INS enables it to target "areas" rather than "structures".

MODS: Kindly move the above discussion to a relevant thread if deemed off-topic.

 

[syed absar hussain]

Been to 2nd year FSc
Just subscribed to zong net yesterday so here I am.
Well in absence frm here i were bzy in Pakistani Music nd Dramas(not studying tough:p)

not a problem
our kids also have the rights to know whats going on in their homeland

 

[Dazzler]

Whats wrong with you ? Who is making stories of anything. Dont reply me if you have to be mean!.
I didn't join this forum to be harsh or so there is mention of 100 Kn that is so. U think I am making stories its ur issue. Check the second line 100 then some chinese and RD 33. Thats why I said.
NO thanks !

calm down mate, i have seen so many twisted stories on the basis of such articles hence my statement, there are facts and fiction mixed as you can make from the translation. I didnt mention your or anyone's name or did I?

The thing is, we do not know much about the crash, many versions circulate on the net, most chinese members take Kanwa reports with a pinch of salt usually