JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]

[SQ8]

Taimi sahab, The thing you are divulging could had been disclosed by PAF in official capacity. When America don't feel ashamed in disclosing F-22 crash reports, I don't know why PAF feels reluctant to do it? Does this got to do with rotten "Fauji mentality" of not disclosing failures to "bloody civilians" ?

Its a mix of both I think. The AF would not like to have people peeking into what it does and tell it how to do its job(even if the interference and reprimand is justified) while there are not many civilians in leadership positions who will take this seriously.

 

[Manticore]

Kindly keep the jft info pool updated with relevant important info. I thinks it has been neglected for several months
@
TTs/Jnr TTs/Editors/Senior members

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Hmmm,,, So the early rumors after the crash that JF-17 disintegrated in the air had due to structural defect were true to some extent!

And supposed insiders were hell bent on declaring it FOD despite very small DSI inlets of JF-17 and rare chance of Birds being sucked in it

Taimi sahab, The thing you are divulging could had been disclosed by PAF in official capacity. When America don't feel ashamed in disclosing F-22 crash reports, I don't know why PAF feels reluctant to do it? Does this got to do with rotten "Fauji mentality" of not disclosing failures to "bloody civilians" ?

Its due to corporation interests. In USA there r highly developed Private defence industry which controls their Politicians as well. Out of 310 million Americans atleast 50 million work in Defence industry one way or another.

This F-22 is developed by one of their Private defence corporation. So if they hide the reports it will severely dealt their credibility in World where they supply defence stuff to almost every country and specially in US where rival corporations will exploit this to convene their Armed forces to buy their stuff over them even if they make better stuff. As once Jundgary explained they have lot of competition b/w them and they invest a lot in Marketing their products, Quality and Image to make them competitive.

The Defence industries which r Private even in Pakistan do that Like GIDS etc who make drones and if u go into their websites they share almost every information of their Drones because their purpose is to sell their product and get the bags of cash. This is what Private Businessmen and corporations do.

Where as in Professional forces the detail is always put under the carpets for security reason and to surprise the enemy like in our case. Hence we as being very emotional Nation develop misunderstandings, like look they r hiding this so their must be something they r not telling then starts the conspiracy theories.

We need to be patient and trust the people who have made these things as they know better. Afterall we dont know much about the sole Military American projects too which were not sold to other countries like U-2 a/c, F-117, SR-71 Blackbird etc etc. Information about them or their capabilities is close to none.

I hope u got the point.

 

[Bratva]

Its due to corporation interests. In USA there r highly developed Private defence industry which controls their Politicians as well. Out of 310 million Americans atleast 50 million work in Defence industry one way or another.

This F-22 is developed by one of their Private defence corporation. So if they hide the reports it will severely dealt their credibility in World where they supply defence stuff to almost every country and specially in US where rival corporations will exploit this to convene their Armed forces to buy their stuff over them even if they make better stuff. As once Jundgary explained they have lot of competition b/w them and they invest a lot in Marketing their products, over Quality and Image to make them competitive.

The Defence industries which r Private even in Pakistan do that Like GIDS etc who make drones and if u go into their websites they share almost every information of their Drones because their purpose is to sell their product and get the bags of cash. This is what Private Businessmen and corporations do.

Where as in Professional forces the detail is always put under the carpets for security reason and to surprise the enemy like in our case hence we as being very emotional Nation develop misunderstandings like look they r hiding this so their must be something they r not telling hence the conspiracy theories come.

We need to be patient and trust the people who have made these things as they know better. Afterall we dont know much about the sole Military American projects too which were not sold to other countries like U-2 a/c, F-117, SR-71 Blackbird etc etc. Information about them or their capabilities is close to none.

I hope u got the point.

Yup I got the point. Hiding incompetency in the name of national security is hall mark of our Armed forces. Like Saab fiasco or the JF-17 crash. Both purchased with Taxpayer money, not with Armed forces own cash. And what's so secret behind JF-17 crash that they decided to put it under carpet? Obviously the incompetency.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Yup I got the point. Hiding incompetency in the name of national security is hall mark of our Armed forces. Like Saab fiasco or the JF-17 crash. Both purchased with Taxpayer money, not with Armed forces own cash. And what's so secret behind JF-17 crash that they decided to put it under carpet? Obviously the incompetency.

Like i said those people who operate and make them knows best All we need is to be patient and Trust them. U-2 incident in Russia and F-117 in Serbia r also there and not much know about them in public.

Here is a word of advise; ''Always analyse with open mind and try to be positive.''

 

[Bratva]

Like i said those people who operate and make them knows best All we need is to be patient and Trust them. U-2 incident in Russia and F-117 in Serbia r also there and not much know about them in public.

Here is a word of advise; ''Always analyse with open mind.''

Then similar logic should apply on politicians and democratic governments in Pak as well, nai?

 

[Arsalan]

Yup I got the point. Hiding incompetency in the name of national security is hall mark of our Armed forces. Like Saab fiasco or the JF-17 crash. Both purchased with Taxpayer money, not with Armed forces own cash. And what's so secret behind JF-17 crash that they decided to put it under carpet? Obviously the incompetency.

Taxpayers Money?? These things suite well in American or European society where every one is paying tax and working there part for betterment of the society and country. I do not need to tell you the ground realities that we face here in Pakistan!!

What about the institutes that are collecting the tax money start sharing the details with public first?
How much data is available about the government spending? aren't they they the ones who are getting the money from public? lets start with them. Don't we have a right to know about that as well?

Things like that are just the Bull $ht Media creating fuss and barking against military, reasons, OBVIOUS!
There had been some lapses on the military's part. Woh be dhoodh ka dulhay nai but give it the space they deserve. Over all, military is one of the finest institutes on our government. Lets start the corrections from the worst end.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Then similar logic should apply on politicians and democratic governments in Pak as well, nai?

Yup they should but they dont but atleast our armed forces do that. Thats why we r still integrated as one National even though our position is of a lone Sheep surrounded by Blood thirsty Wolves from all sides. 

Taxpayers Money?? These things suite well in American or European society where every one is paying tax and working there part for betterment of the society and country. I do not need to tell you the ground realities that we face here in Pakistan!!

What about the institutes that are collecting the tax money start sharing the details with public first?
How much data is available about the government spending? aren't they they the ones who are getting the money from public? lets start with them. Don't we have a right to know about that as well?

Things like that are just the Bull $ht Media creating fuss and barking against military, reasons, OBVIOUS!
There had been some lapses on the military's part. Woh be dhoodh ka dulhay nai but give it the space they deserve. Over all, military is one of the finest institutes on our government. Lets start the corrections from the worst end.

Even the Zakaat System is now been given to the individuals because the Bait ul Maal had actually no mechanism to deliver all of the money to needy people.

Before they used to cut the 2.5% of yr celery for Zakaat.

 

[Basel]

Can we work with South Korea to modernize JF-17? and if JF-17 and FA-50 is compared which one is better?

 

[SQ8]

Can we work with South Korea to modernize JF-17? and if JF-17 and FA-50 is compared which one is better?

We have worked already with the South Koreans on electronic defence suite for the JF-17 but that deal was cut short by the Americans.

The JF-17 and FA-50 are similar aircraft and competitors in many markets. However, the JF-17 brings with it the advantage of being cheaper and having a single supplier base in China...this is also a disadvantage for those nations that do not have friendly relations with China.. but the same disadvantage plagues the F/A-50 for those nations that are not friendly with S.K.

Design wise, both are quite similar in going with the F-16 inspired planform, although the JF-17 is more conventional as it does not use the blended body configuration that is common to both the F/A-50 and F-16. As such the F/A-50 is closer to a smaller F-16(right down to the airbrakes) and that shows the effect of KAI's F-16 manufacturing years and LM input as well. However, it does also mean that the JF-17 is simpler to manufacture as compared to a F/A-50 due to this highly conventional construction. As a platform, the F/A-50 perhaps has an advantage that it was built as a two seater originally so essentially it has more weight it can shed in a single seat form. Both aircraft have similar payload capabilities as platforms so essentially it will come down to the engines that power future versions that determines final performance. The F/A-50 will have the advantage of a proven GE-414 available while the JF-17 has no clear engine available for upgrade as there is no concrete data on the progress of the Chinese WS-13.

 

[sancho]

The JF-17 and FA-50 are similar aircraft and competitors in many markets.

As I said in the LCA thread, the FA50 is mainly a trainer, with light attack capability and not a real fighter comparable to JF 17. Otherwise you would have to compare the YAK 130 or the Alenia M346 to JF17 as well, but the performance of these aircrafts, or even of techs like radars (small noses) should very different. So while these aircrafts will be considered mainly for the training purpose, nobody will buy a JF 17 for training, therefor it should have a pretty different market, especially with the weapon capability that it offers.

 

[SQ8]

As I said in the LCA thread, the FA50 is mainly a trainer, with light attack capability and not a real fighter comparable to JF 17. Otherwise you would have to compare the YAK 130 or the Alenia M346 to JF17 as well, but the performance of these aircrafts, or even of techs like radars (small noses) should very different. So while these aircrafts will be considered mainly for the training purpose, nobody will buy a JF 17 for training, therefor it should have a pretty different market, especially with the weapon capability that it offers.

You are referring to the T/A-50.. the F/A-50 actually has fairly respectable payload capability.

 

[Basel]

As per internet FA-50 uses Israeli EL/M-2032 airborne radar, as per wiki it is same radar used in Tajes and Mig-21 upgrades. Where you put this plane in terms of avionics?

EL/M-2032 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As per wiki this is what FA-50 is capable of:

FA-50 can be externally fitted with Rafael's Sky Shield or LIG Nex1's ALQ-200K ECM pods, Sniper or LITENING targeting pods, and Condor 2 reconnaissance pods to further improve the fighter's electronic warfare, reconnaissance, and targeting capabilities.[70][71] Other improved weapon systems over TA-50 include SPICE multifunctional guidance kits,[72] Textron CBU-97/105 Sensor Fuzed Weapon with WCMD tail kits, JDAM, and JDAM-ER for more comprehensive air-to-ground operations, and AIM-120 missiles for BVR air-to-air operations.[73] FA-50 has provisions for, but does not yet integrate, Python and Derby missiles, also produced by Rafael, and other anti-ship missiles, stand-off weapons, and sensors to be domestically developed by Korea.[74][75][76]

KAI T-50 Golden Eagle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This make it quite capable aircraft that why I asked to compare JF-17 with it, and what we can get from S. Korea.

 

[SQ8]

As per internet FA-50 uses Israeli EL/M-2032 airborne radar, as per wiki it is same radar used in Tajes and Mig-21 upgrades. Where you put this plane in terms of avionics?

EL/M-2032 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As per wiki this is what FA-50 is capable of:



KAI T-50 Golden Eagle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This make it quite capable aircraft that why I asked to compare JF-17 with it, and what we can get from S. Korea.

The radar is quite potent and is better than the KLJ-7 in A2G modes.. However.. some samples of the ALQ-200 ECm system found its way to Pakistan from SK which caused the Americans to have a fit. As far as weapons are concerned the JF-17 has a comparable weapons fit that matches the capabilities of the ones listed for the F/A-50.

 

[Bratva]

A 4 mint report on FC-1/JF-17 in chinese