JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[muse]

I can give plenty more info/ pics only to prove the Probe is supplied by SAAB and has an option of retraction. Anyone interested in knowing more??

Yes, please -- also please elaborate about an "option of retraction" - I take your poiint about no moving parts but the retractable just has to be the way to go.

 

[krash]

oh my bad then i thought the probe was a chinese version....

and one more thing this is a trainer aircraft for varyag, looks like its based on j-7. (found the pic in some chinese gov magazine), one noticable thing is its front looks like earlier prototype of thunder and maybe just maybe the twin seater thunder might look like this as well...

That is the JL-9 (FTC-2000 Mountain Eagle for export). Its the new jet trainer for the PLAAF and the PLAN. It won the competition against the L-15. A prototype fitted with a tail hook has been seen but it is still not sure if this is the aircraft that will be chosen for training aircraft carrier pilots. And yes it is based on the J-7 so as to make it a more viable option for all the air forces around the world who are already operating the J-7 and/or the FT-7.

JL-9:

L-15:

 

[Crypto]

Question :- Is the JF 17 developed from the Project 33 or from the Project Sabre II ??

Its based on F-22 Raptor

 

[TaimiKhan]

This pic shows the ROSE3 cockpit but what is significant is the HMD system. For those who think HMDS is an issue, it is not...

Well since its already out.

Yeah, the PAF Mirages have limited HMS system which is fully night flying capable. Origin is European, but the cost of one whole system is somewhere around 100K $$$. And i am sure about its integration with the night attack Sqd of the ROSE upgraded Mirages, don't know about its operational status with the air superiority Mirages.

 

[Kompromat]

Better angle of Swed refueling probe and wingtip launch rail......

Even en entirely blinded man would be able to see that the IFR probe is retractable -

 

[Zarvan]

That is the JL-9 (FTC-2000 Mountain Eagle for export). Its the new jet trainer for the PLAAF and the PLAN. It won the competition against the L-15. A prototype fitted with a tail hook has been seen but it is still not sure if this is the aircraft that will be chosen for training aircraft carrier pilots. And yes it is based on the J-7 so as to make it a more viable option for all the air forces around the world who are already operating the J-7 and/or the FT-7.

JL-9:

L-15:

I have a question I heard that after induction of initial 50 JF-17 Pakistan Airforce is going put better engine and avionic in ohter new JF-17 is it righ if yes than will it be french engines

 

[Dazzler]

Question :- Is the JF 17 developed from the Project 33 or from the Project Sabre II ??

Answer is NO it is not, it has its roots in Saber2, some consultancy was done by Russians but otherwise it is entirely a Sino-Pak project.

 

[krash]

I have a question I heard that after induction of initial 50 JF-17 Pakistan Airforce is going put better engine and avionic in ohter new JF-17 is it righ if yes than will it be french engines

Well that has been much speculated i.e. the french avionics. But nonetheless the avionics package will be upgraded be it a Chinese or a french package. The speculation came after the apparent cancellation of the deal with the french and the PAF ACM announcing that the Chinese missiles had been selected as the future for the JF-17. But still you can expect anything. As far as the engine is concerned, there again we have speculation at best. A French engine is not believed to be a probable option. But the WS-13 is being considered as an option. The WS-13 gives more power than the RD-93. But there are others saying that the PAF, at least for the second batch, will stick with RD-93.

 

[Dazzler]

Avionics is not an issue as we have plenty of toys to play with. Entire ROSE/ MAESTRO avionic package is manufactured locally in Pakistan for quite a few years. We do have options for JFT i.e. Chinese and local. So far, necessary local sub systems such WMMC, SMT, Secure Comm etc are associated in it along with Chinese.

 

[SQ8]

Avionics is not an issue as we have plenty of toys to play with. Entire ROSE/ MAESTRO avionic package is manufactured locally in Pakistan for quite a few years. We do have options for JFT i.e. Chinese and local. So far, necessary local sub systems such WMMC, SMT, Secure Comm etc are associated in it along with Chinese.

Standardized european fleetwide purchase.

 

[sancho]

I don't boast in thin air. This was displayed by Swedes in IDEAS 2006, 2008 and tested/ bought by PAF for JFT. Notice the retractable lines...

I never questioned if it's retractable, just asked what happed to that one, because you said that it will be added by the end of last year right? Which also was based on reliable infos, but never happend and it will be a fixed one. Also only because Mr. Asif Amin says:

Air refuling probe who aredy installed on Gripen

It doesn't mean it is Swedish!

Cobham Mission Systems Division (U.K.)

Client aircraft programs:

...Saab JAS 39 Gripen Air Refuelling Systems - Aerial refuelling probes

Cobham Mission Systems Division - U.K.

Cobham Wins NATO Multi Mission Launcher for Hungarian Air Force
Thursday, July 20, 2006:7:05 AM

Cobham Air Refuelling and Auxiliary Mission Equipment Division has been awarded a contract to supply the Hungarian Air Force with its NATO Multi Mission Launcher (NMML) for integration onto its recently acquired Gripen aircraft...

...Richard Tyson, Managing Director, Cobham Air Refuelling and Auxiliary Mission Equipment, said,


''The Gripen is the first of a new generation of multi-role combat aircraft to enter service and this order reinforces Cobham's ability to provide wing-tip to wing-tip mission equipment solutions to air forces around the world.''

Cobham plc :: Mission Systems, #176


"wing tip to wing tip mission equipment" sounds familiar right (background of the IDEAS pic)?


Both of your infos turned out to be not correct and although I don't doubt that Chobham would offers such things for JF17, is there any reliable/official source that this system was procured and tested?

 

[sancho]

I dont see the JFt getting conformals in the near future.. not a requirement...
...Block II onwards.. one would expect to see a fixed probe on the JFt..
by the time we get to Block III.. it is hoped a retractable solution is found.. optimistically by the Chinese.. so that it conforms to the planned RCS reduction features expected in that batch.

But JF 17 Block 2, or 3 will have to increase the internal fuel as well isn't it? If not for extended range, but for less external loads and more hardpoints, which are limited now as well. If not CFTs, more internal fuel tanks must be added, which means in the airframe (similar to the changes of Gripen NG, or LCA MK2), or with bigger wings. Which solution is more likely in your opinion?

 

[SQ8]

But JF 17 Block 2, or 3 will have to increase the internal fuel as well isn't it? If not for extended range, but for less external loads and more hardpoints, which are limited now as well. If not CFTs, more internal fuel tanks must be added, which means in the airframe (similar to the changes of Gripen NG, or LCA MK2), or with bigger wings. Which solution is more likely in your opinion?

I dont think internal fuel increase is in the picture..
surprisingly.. the PAF expects to reduce weight.. or keep it level in subsequent blocks..
And there is a provision for two hardpoints.. where 3 and 4(innermost wing) are..
in addition.. a domestic MER is also in the works..
Although the first priority is a staggered station for electronic pods.
by switching over to composites in increasing amounts.. and by changing critical structures to lighter but more complex(still am not sure what this tagline was meant by the source )..
The refueling probe is not chinese.... that being said.. a lot of orders were made during IDEAS 2005 ..and 2008 which were later revised.. or cancelled..
But the majority of these involved electronic systems...

 

[Dazzler]

But JF 17 Block 2, or 3 will have to increase the internal fuel as well isn't it? If not for extended range, but for less external loads and more hardpoints, which are limited now as well. If not CFTs, more internal fuel tanks must be added, which means in the airframe (similar to the changes of Gripen NG, or LCA MK2), or with bigger wings. Which solution is more likely in your opinion?

Increment in internal fuel should not be a problem as 200 kg of additional fuel space was available by the introduction of DSI during prototype stage, with additional composite in coming batches, reduced weight will make more space for additional internal fuel. However, I do not see the the need of external CFTs for now but who knows if PAF wants something in that league, they might just go for it. what is inevitable is we can do pretty much what we want to just like the Yanks did with F-4, F-16 over their lifespan. Same rule applies to Indian LCA.

 

[Dazzler]

"wing tip to wing tip mission equipment" sounds familiar right (background of the IDEAS pic)? Both of your infos turned out to be not correct and although I don't doubt that Chobham would offers such things for JF17, is there any reliable/official source that this system was procured and tested?

Yes it is Cobham made for Gripen and in this case foe JFT, thanks for correction. But, the reason i gave these pics/ info is because you raised the question of "retractable probe", now it seems you are changing direction, as expected. Anyway, I understand your logic, nothing is reliable no matter how many pics, sources come from us. Take it or leave it. It will not change the reality.