JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[ironman]

CATIC executives are also unhappy with the unwillingness of Russia to sell them some their latest products. "We have been interested in acquiring new aircraft, such as the Sukhoi Su-35, but thus far this has not been presented as an option for us," they said.

This is what I'm saying to Chinese members long time back. Grey boy here is your evidence from Jane's itself.

 

[Sapper]

This is what I'm saying to Chinese members long time back. Grey boy here is your evidence from Jane's itself.

I am curious ... why would CATIC require Su35 ... CATIC is weapons manufacturer, not user.

PLAAF may be interested in Su35 (which is indeed an incredible fighter), but saying that CATIC is interested is beyond my understanding.

Analogy ...
Its like saying that Boeing (Boeing makes F18s) is interested in Rafale (just an example) ... USAF can be interested or dis-interested in Rafale ... what's Boeing got to do with ?

 

[TaimiKhan]

I am curious ... why would CATIC require Su35 ... CATIC is weapons manufacturer, not user.

PLAAF may be interested in Su35 (which is indeed an incredible fighter), but saying that CATIC is interested is beyond my understanding.

Analogy ...
Its like saying that Boeing (Boeing makes F18s) is interested in Rafale (just an example) ... USAF can be interested or dis-interested in Rafale ... what's Boeing got to do with ?

It means here in the sense as a technology transfer or licensed assembly item for the PLAAF, just like the Su-27/J-11 arrangement.

 

[All-Green]

Its not just the gun, ammo, ammo drums, plus Gsh-23 has different versions too, with different barrel lengths and the weight isn't that much of the simple gun, its around 50.0KG for Gsh-23L.

But Gsh-30 has a weight of 105KG, nearly double the weight of Gsh-23.

And as for ammo the Gsh-23 ammo is 23x115mm

&

Gsh-30 is 30x165mm

a 7 mm increase in width of round and 50mm increase in length of cartridge, resulting in considerable rise in weight of the ammo. As 30mm round is larger, meaning will take more space and ammo capacity will be reduced.

Moreover the negative impact of firing a much heavier gun on the flight control (and airframe) of a light combat aircraft is to be kept in mind...
In a post design stage such a change is like giving an elephant gun to a 13 year old...risky business...

Unless there was a provision for a heavier cannon in the design, i do not see a change in cannon...

 

[Arsalan]

Changing of JF-17s gun caliber from 23mm to something else would be not envisioned at this time or any time in near future, reason being the Gsl-23mm gun version are used in F-7 & F-7PG versions of PAF, the current J-10 & future FC-20 are also using the same gun, some of the Chinese fighter aircrafts also use this gun and caliber. So for ease of ammo and commonality this gun will be kept.

Also, the higher caliber we go to, it will add additional weight of ammo, reduced capacity and huge cost for changing the guns of entire series of aircrafts and ammo.

And the Gsl-23mm gun I believe is China made as sometime ago read that Russia had stopped production of the 23mm caliber gun as they have changed to the 30mm caliber for their aircrafts.

very true indeed,, our planes are using the 23mm guns and this makes any change of caliber for JF a rare opportunity. moreover the gun comming with the JF is good enough. all i wanted with my previous post was to let you guys know tht the JF can be fitted with the other gun with out any modification, i never meant to say that we should go fot it...

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

It means here in the sense as a technology transfer or licensed assembly item for the PLAAF, just like the Su-27/J-11 arrangement.

hmmm, moreover the sukhoi will also be more then intrested for some sort of joint venture as the chines money will provide a good fuel to there economy!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

oh one more intresting peice of information for guys who have been following the thread...
well friends i guess you will remember me asking question about the production line of JF17 in PAC Kamra! i have been always looking for some information about how many lines are we operating and what is there production rate. sadly i have never been answered as yet but thanks to the same person, my friend (the aero engg one) i just got my answer.
currently PAC lamra have three production lines. one of them is working on the JF project. this means that currently JF17 is being manufactured on one single production line but with the thunder comming in and older fleet of mirages and F7 phasing out PAC in commited to open all three line to JF plus make a new one for other maintainance tasks. the time frame for this event is not know as yet as for the time being PAF seem reluctant to give up mirages and F7PGs as they still have some life left in them.
however to conclude we now know that:
PAC Kamra is producing JF17 on one single production line.
the line will be producing one aircraft eveey three weeks,, this means a JF will roll out after every three weeks.

i hope all of you who have some intrest in this project will find this news quite intesting, atleast i did so.

regards!

 

[PakShaheen79]

oh one more intresting peice of information for guys who have been following the thread...
well friends i guess you will remember me asking question about the production line of JF17 in PAC Kamra! i have been always looking for some information about how many lines are we operating and what is there production rate. sadly i have never been answered as yet but thanks to the same person, my friend (the aero engg one) i just got my answer.
currently PAC lamra have three production lines. one of them is working on the JF project. this means that currently JF17 is being manufactured on one single production line but with the thunder comming in and older fleet of mirages and F7 phasing out PAC in commited to open all three line to JF plus make a new one for other maintainance tasks. the time frame for this event is not know as yet as for the time being PAF seem reluctant to give up mirages and F7PGs as they still have some life left in them.
however to conclude we now know that:
PAC Kamra is producing JF17 on one single production line.
the line will be producing one aircraft eveey three weeks,, this means a JF will roll out after every three weeks.

i hope all of you who have some intrest in this project will find this news quite intesting, atleast i did so.

regards!

So that's mean we have total 48 weeks in a year, Right. 48/3=16 Thunders in a year, not bad for start I think when more lines will be producing Thunder PAC will able to push this rate upto near 24 or so in a year.

Now i wounder! For first batch to be inducted we will have to wait till 2012-13. I was thinking by the end of 2011 all 42 remaining in first batch will be there in PAF.

 

[rizhussain44]

So that's mean we have total 48 weeks in a year, Right. 48/3=16 Thunders in a year, not bad for start I think when more lines will be producing Thunder PAC will able to push this rate upto near 24 or so in a year.

Now i wounder! For first batch to be inducted we will have to wait till 2012-13. I was thinking by the end of 2011 all 42 remaining in first batch will be there in PAF.

There are actually 52 weeks in a calendar year. 364 days/7 = 52 weeks.
By that PAC's current production rate for JF-17 will be 52/3 = 17.33/year, not bad yar!

 

[PakShaheen79]

There are actually 52 weeks in a calendar year. 364 days/7 = 52 weeks.
By that PAC's current production rate for JF-17 will be 52/3 = 17.33/year, not bad yar!

Oh ... My bad. Indeed it is 52 weeks and not 48.

17 planes in a year is not bad but look at time it will take to produce first batch.

3*42 = 126 weeks... means more than two years. i.e. not before 2012-13

 

[rizhussain44]

Oh ... My bad. Indeed it is 52 weeks and not 48.

17 planes in a year is not bad but look at time it will take to produce first batch.

3*42 = 126 weeks... means more than two years. i.e. not before 2012-13

But you have to note that this is only the current production rate, I am sure it will only go up from here. If it is 17/yr right now then after an year it should be 20+, I could be wrong. Also.. I think not just Pakistan/PAC will be making it but we will be getting planes from China too. Didn't we just receive 5 more JF-17s from China, I heard that news. So considering these two factors we should be able to get our first batch of JF-17s completed an year earlier than your estimate of 2012-13.

my 2 cents.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Oh ... My bad. Indeed it is 52 weeks and not 48.

17 planes in a year is not bad but look at time it will take to produce first batch.

3*42 = 126 weeks... means more than two years. i.e. not before 2012-13

In the 42, 3 already made, so 39 to go.

These 42 are not going to be all PAC built, rather the production line of PAC & Chengdu are gonna role out these 42 airframes.

And Chinese production rate would be better then PAC at the moment & in future too.

 

[hataf]

i think we recived 2 JF-17not 5
as per wikipedia

 

[PakShaheen79]

But you have to note that this is only the current production rate, I am sure it will only go up from here. If it is 17/yr right now then after an year it should be 20+, I could be wrong. Also.. I think not just Pakistan/PAC will be making it but we will be getting planes from China too. Didn't we just receive 5 more JF-17s from China, I heard that news. So considering these two factors we should be able to get our first batch of JF-17s completed an year earlier than your estimate of 2012-13.

my 2 cents.

5 new??

When did that happened. I think we have 10 from China and 111 produced at PAC. So total 11 with us.

 

[rizhussain44]

i think we recived 2 JF-17not 5
as per wikipedia

5 new??

When did that happened. I think we have 10 from China and 111 produced at PAC. So total 11 with us.

I read at two three different places here on PDF and no body seemed to disagree with it so I assumed it was a correct report. I couldn't find at the moment where i read it accept for post 617 of this thread.

Can someone else also confirm if we did or did not receive 5 more JF-17s from China just before our first JF-17 rollout ceremony?