JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[PakShaheen79]

yeah surely with the present radar KLJ-7 radar on thunders i think the
above indian guy is totally correct that thunders are absolutely not suited for deep penetration into indian territory

Agreed. I have learned that PAF is looking for The Vixen 1000ES radar from batch 2 and on wards.

"The Vixen 1000ES is an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar designed for 4.5+ generation multi-role fighter aircraft. The system features both air-to-air, air-to-sea and air-to-ground modes including interleaved operation, ensuring high availability and reliability. The Vixen 1000ES radar is a collaborative program with SELEX Galileo, SAAB Microwave and SAAB Aerosystems to equip the Gripen NG with an state-of-the-art radar system based on the Vixen radar family. "
Vixen 1000ES

 

[MAB]

Agreed. I have learned that PAF is looking for The Vixen 1000ES radar from batch 2 and on wards.

"The Vixen 1000ES is an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar designed for 4.5+ generation multi-role fighter aircraft. The system features both air-to-air, air-to-sea and air-to-ground modes including interleaved operation, ensuring high availability and reliability. The Vixen 1000ES radar is a collaborative program with SELEX Galileo, SAAB Microwave and SAAB Aerosystems to equip the Gripen NG with an state-of-the-art radar system based on the Vixen radar family. "
Vixen 1000ES

Well if the PAF is looking to put an AESA radar on the second batch of the Thunders than this will really give a boost to the thunder.

 

[Kompromat]

Well if the PAF is looking to put an AESA radar on the second batch of the Thunders than this will really give a boost to the thunder.

Why not , if PAF is able to get this AESA radar , i must say for batch two , they should do Significant Air frame changes , optimise engine performance add CFT's , if possible get few more hard points , an weapons and EW suite Targeting Pod such as Sniper etc , JHMS or JHMCS. iT will put Thunder on International wish list too for many Countries

I think many develoments are going on , because in the end of the day Avionics & Electronic systems are as integral as the Airframe itself.

any news on Avionics for The thunderz?

Good luck for Thunder.

Regards:

 

[RameeX Xaved]

Why not , if PAF is able to get this AESA radar , i must say for batch two , they should do Significant Air frame changes , optimise engine performance add CFT's , if possible get few more hard points , an weapons and EW suite Targeting Pod such as Sniper etc , JHMS or JHMCS. iT will put Thunder on International wish list too for many Countries

I think many develoments are going on , because in the end of the day Avionics & Electronic systems are as integral as the Airframe itself.

any news on Avionics for The thunderz?

Good luck for Thunder.

Regards:

but the most important point you guys are missing is that with all the changes in its airframe, hardpoints, avionics, mission time etc, how much would the unit cost of Jf-17 block II increase? somewhere around $40-50 million? remember JF-17 was developed for a low cost solution for the third world countries. with these changes, can we afford this toy in huge numbers to replace all of our obsolete fighters with on going projects like the new F-16s and FC-20?
by the way personally i believe that all the changes we are dreaming about Jf-17, it is already coming with FC-20 so whats the point of getting two platforms for similar strike roles? i doubt Jf-17 will be only used for defensive purposes once it gets the AESA and at the same time its not up to the standards in terms of maneuverability once engaged in BVR fights. so whats the point of doing such heavy upgrades?

 

[nightrider_saulat]

Agreed. I have learned that PAF is looking for The Vixen 1000ES radar from batch 2 and on wards.

"The Vixen 1000ES is an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar designed for 4.5+ generation multi-role fighter aircraft. The system features both air-to-air, air-to-sea and air-to-ground modes including interleaved operation, ensuring high availability and reliability. The Vixen 1000ES radar is a collaborative program with SELEX Galileo, SAAB Microwave and SAAB Aerosystems to equip the Gripen NG with an state-of-the-art radar system based on the Vixen radar family. "
Vixen 1000ES

if it is the case then in the future then we would also be able to upgrade our block I with AESA radars

 

[k7x]

JF 17 was quoted is morder low cost fighter.

For block I it may be true as all components are from China. you can get i less than $20 M .

for Block 2 you guys are talking about french, Italian etc etc packages.

if that got added to the basic airfame cost. what would be the price. will Pakistan ready to pay such huge sums for 200 a/c

sample . French people are asking 40M for mirage upgrade.. what about others.. will it be cheap to maintain it as low cost mordern aircraft or do you have to compramise on qunatity or quality

 

[BATMAN]

but the most important point you guys are missing is that with all the changes in its airframe, hardpoints, avionics, mission time etc, how much would the unit cost of Jf-17 block II increase? somewhere around $40-50 million?

Only Airfram and radar change is expected in block 2 which should not add so much cost until unless USD devalue to half.
In any case development process should not cease.

remember JF-17 was developed for a low cost solution for the third world countries. with these changes, can we afford this toy in huge numbers to replace all of our obsolete fighters with on going projects like the new F-16s and FC-20?

Thunder is low cost because its development costed less but it is an equal substitute for F-16.
Nothing will hold us from installing non AESA radars as low cost solution for third world countries. beside, third world countries have other choices available they should buy what suits them.

by the way personally i believe that all the changes we are dreaming about Jf-17, it is already coming with FC-20 so whats the point of getting two platforms for similar strike roles? i doubt Jf-17 will be only used for defensive purposes once it gets the AESA and at the same time its not up to the standards in terms of maneuverability once engaged in BVR fights. so whats the point of doing such heavy upgrades?

JF-17 has more potential of development than FC-20.
Despite thunder's upgrade FC-20 will be continue dominate in its primary role, i.e. more hard points and range.
This is why increasing hardpoints may not be the top priority for thunder upgrades.

 

[nightrider_saulat]

JF 17 was quoted is morder low cost fighter.

For block I it may be true as all components are from China. you can get i less than $20 M .

for Block 2 you guys are talking about french, Italian etc etc packages.

if that got added to the basic airfame cost. what would be the price. will Pakistan ready to pay such huge sums for 200 a/c

sample . French people are asking 40M for mirage upgrade.. what about others.. will it be cheap to maintain it as low cost mordern aircraft or do you have to compramise on qunatity or quality

if economy could possibly have perform better in the last two years of zardari and allies
then for surely we were going to be in very condition today
to go for blockII

 

[Arsalan]

yes it was siad that radar will be changed in block II but it has been qiute silent since past few months and we dont actually know anything regarding the progree for blkII. now considering the current situation of the counry i guess we may not see a highly improved blk II and major upgrades might welll be left for Block III. at the moment there seem a good lot of other problems that we have tackel!

what do you guys think?

regards!

 

[zavis2003]

but the most important point you guys are missing is that with all the changes in its airframe, hardpoints, avionics, mission time etc, how much would the unit cost of Jf-17 block II increase? somewhere around $40-50 million? remember JF-17 was developed for a low cost solution for the third world countries. with these changes, can we afford this toy in huge numbers to replace all of our obsolete fighters with on going projects like the new F-16s and FC-20?
by the way personally i believe that all the changes we are dreaming about Jf-17, it is already coming with FC-20 so whats the point of getting two platforms for similar strike roles? i doubt Jf-17 will be only used for defensive purposes once it gets the AESA and at the same time its not up to the standards in terms of maneuverability once engaged in BVR fights. so whats the point of doing such heavy upgrades?

ithink we has made jf17 not as to make it low cost aircraft its not our headache though we wants to keep it cost in a limits but to get something well onboard for feasible increase in cost PAF would go for it and also its china head ache to keep it low cost for export
pak is constantly looking for the AESA and better engine
and JF17 is available in a diff packages for customers so it is not a problem for us

 

[SEAL]

Whats the max detection range of Grifo-S7 and Vixen 1000ES radar??

 

[Young-khan]

ithink we has made jf17 not as to make it low cost aircraft its not our headache though we wants to keep it cost in a limits but to get something well onboard for feasible increase in cost PAF would go for it and also its china head ache to keep it low cost for export
pak is constantly looking for the AESA and better engine
and JF17 is available in a diff packages for customers so it is not a problem for us

Well just because today the jf17 is designed aroun low cost and being a low cost fighter does not mean that this is the case in the future.

As time will pass by and more funds are available when pakistani economy improves the thunder will be gradually refined and more money will be spent on its improvement.

Even in its current form the thunder is a much needed boost for the paf.

I feel that the first batch of thunders with kl7 radar are more designed and tuned for air defense roles. However with the second batch that will me a mixture of defence and offence. Lots will be learnt from the first batch and implemented in to the second batch.

Once the second batch is up and running fully then the first batch will be tweaked more for defensive and ground support roles.

Lets have the first batch and learn from it and improve it, but aesa radar and more hardpoints are not necessary at this point, whats necessary is a platform that has bvr ability and can help defend pak airspace.

 

[Arsalan]

Well just because today the jf17 is designed aroun low cost and being a low cost fighter does not mean that this is the case in the future.

As time will pass by and more funds are available when pakistani economy improves the thunder will be gradually refined and more money will be spent on its improvement.

Even in its current form the thunder is a much needed boost for the paf.

I feel that the first batch of thunders with kl7 radar are more designed and tuned for air defense roles. However with the second batch that will me a mixture of defence and offence. Lots will be learnt from the first batch and implemented in to the second batch.

Once the second batch is up and running fully then the first batch will be tweaked more for defensive and ground support roles.

Lets have the first batch and learn from it and improve it, but aesa radar and more hardpoints are not necessary at this point, whats necessary is a platform that has bvr ability and can help defend pak airspace.

agreed!
although there may be no plans to turn it into a highly sophisticated platform at the moment but we should keep in mind that the JF have potential to undertake a world of upgrades that can really take it to a new level!
for the time being PAF seem to be more intrested in rapid induction so as to fill in some number, once we are done with some 100 aircrafts PAF may well buy some time to further improve the plane provided we feel its requirment and have finance to under take it!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

Whats the max detection range of Grifo-S7 and Vixen 1000ES radar??

both these radar are under development and there specs are more of a classified inforamtion. however for the Grifo-S7 it is reported to be somewhere aroud 125Km for fighter size target and supposed to have 25 different operational modes with ability to track 6 or 8 target simultaneously with ability to attack four. saying all this, i will again lke to mention that the specs of both these systems are not accurtately known as yet!

regards!

 

[PakShaheen79]

Whats the max detection range of Grifo-S7 and Vixen 1000ES radar??

I am afraid that you might not find answer on internet that easily. Manufacturers other than Russians and Chinese never disclose true range of their radars.

But, Keep looking for it...you may able to educate us here as well.. Best of luck...Happy Searching!