JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[SomeGuy]

Doesnt matter. Ever since AWACS has come into picture , there are no surprises. If you consider a possibility that AWACS is not in the scenario , then most probably it will Su 30 who will see JF 17 first.
I am having trouble finding KLJ10 specs , if you have that then we can compare it against Bars. Also since Su 30 will soon undergo MLU , it will be upgraded to Ibris -Snow leaopard (if i am correct). This is the radar present in Su 35 and has more detection and power range.

Since it can act as a Mini Awacs itself -- It can further relay the information to second wave of fighters.

No.

From what I understand, all models of the Su-30 series can only provide half of the power required for the Irbis-E radar.

Currently, only Su-35 and Su-37 have enough power to support this.

So Su-30MKI might very well get a new radar for MLU, but it probably won't be this one.

 

[MastanKhan]

Excellent, the bigger it is the earlier its detected. Ignore the Indian fanboys who claim that its bigger RCS is meant to intimidate the opponent



The first thing that will be jettisoned by the pilot of MKI when he realizes a missile is on its way to blow his a**. Besides i reckon the fight is likely to occur in WVR rather than a BVR scenario, WVR is something PAF can pride itself upon because our pilots have mastered this art.



No doubt an excellent radar, could have been a great advantage if we didn't have 3D Radars and 8 AWACS patrolling the skies. It was not just a coincidence that the MKI was intercepted in a matter of seconds over Kashmir in 2008.
How can you conclude that JF17's electronic package is smaller when its system is not even public. From what i have heard directly from people involved in this project is that it has excellent EW package. RWR, DAS, MAW and other jamming and self protection systems are present on the aircraft. In my opinion thats an excellent electronic warfare package, besides those 3 D20 Falcons and 8 AWACS weren't exactly purchased to be only show cased on Defence Day.



Lets wait and see which missile PAF selects for JF17, as Shamim Sahab has disclosed the range for the Darter is 120 Km.



Indeed, would love to see those big a** engines dodge a heat seeking missile.



Let them come, they can send as many heavy hitters as they want. Has PAF ever backed out of a fight? We know what they have but they don't know what we have, let them come and we will unleash our nasty surprises that we have reserved only for IAF. SU30 is a good plane no doubt about that, but please don't make it out to be something its not. Its not some super duper plane that is not beatable, if the Indians were fielding a 5th Generation Aircraft that we couldn't see on our radars than we would have a problem. I will just say this, PAF does not shares the same sentiment as you when it comes to the MKI. They are confident they can counter it, i dont see them freaking out over it.

Hi,

Talk is easy------the enemy already has 124 of them----we don't even have one coming close---.

You need to read up on material on air warfare---your reasoning is very good for home consumption.

PAF has backed out since the 90's---they had no answer for MIG 25 flights over pakistan----.

They backed out at Kargil----they again backed out when the Atlantique was shot---they backed out when the indian missile gun boats were being towed into firing range onto karachi harbour in 71---they backed out launching missiles against the SU 30 and the mirage 2k that crossed over after mumbai attacks---they backed out when Asghar Khan refused to fly the RF 57 over india---they cbacked out when Asghar Khan called his counter part in india and told him he won't let his men fight if the other didn't let his---.


You got me started again---I didnot want to get into those issues---.

You need to get your learning cap on---and stop fighting to learn and understand----the bigger equipment will have a bigger jammers----these bigger jammers are also extremely high tech as well---the bigger jammers will overpower the smaller jammers----.

RCS---what rcs---you won't be able to see nothing coming in on your screen---it will all be jammed---.

The awacs that pakistan has and the ones they will be getting---paf will only operate them from extreme ranges away from the indian border---as pak army doesnot have long range ground to air missiles---there will be limitations on operational flights as to how close tothe border they can fly.

Your comments---let them come----


When you say let them come and we will show them what we have----that means that your equipment is inferior and you cannot go to their side to fight---you are waiting on your side on the premise that home ground may give some extra help---.

Are you old enough to remembr AKRAM PEHALWAN'S fight with ANTONIO INOKI in lahore---Akram used to brag---come I will show you what I can do----.

Well Inoki came---tore up Akram--ripped his socket out of his shoulder---when asked what happened---Akram would say---pehlay us nay meri aankh mein ungli mari---phir us nay mera bazoo tor dia---ie---first he stuck his finger in my eye then he broke my arm----that was the great pakistani warrior---bit the dust in the most humilioating fashion a man could get defeated---you should have seen him strutting around in the ring before the fight---and looked at the true warrior Inoki---calm and quiet---.

Let me see if I can find that video----

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi--,

It is not 2:1 odds this time----you have to counter the MULTIPLIER effect of a better offencive weapons system with a longer range and accuracy and air support.

That multiplier effect would increase their power posturing to somewhere 10:1---15:1---.

People keep on talking because they can---they cannot understand that comparing the 1st gulf war to the 2nd gulf war----the weaponery had changed a 50 fold---comparing it to vietnam war---the weaponery had changed a 100 folds---comparing it to 2nd WW---it had change 500---1000 folds.

The air combat has changed as well---air weapon carriers will utilize their strength of range and firepower and fight air wars on their side of strength---and will not get into a weaker position---. Air dominance fighters will stay and engage and launch their BVR's from within the 80---90 %kill range---preferably 90% ranges---then turn and scoot ----before getting into the opponents bvr / or medium range missiles.

Nations with better wvr capabilities will always strive to fight on their grounds but the enemy will not fall into that trap anymore---.

Massive air dominance fighters with their massive radars and high end bvr's will rule in the end---specially when they have higher numbers

 

[anathema]

No.

From what I understand, all models of the Su-30 series can only provide half of the power required for the Irbis-E radar.

Currently, only Su-35 and Su-37 have enough power to support this.

So Su-30MKI might very well get a new radar for MLU, but it probably won't be this one.

Source ? Also what do you think will be the next radar ?

Wont MLU help in increasing the power or something like that to incorporate Ibris ? -- The point i am tryin to make is -- Ibris has been a evolution from Bars , so its a logical ugrade ..

This is a JF17 thread -- Please send me message of you can post in Su 30 thread.

 

[k7x]

there was no match for Chinese Su27 in indian inventory . we wanted this bird to counter Chinese su27 as well as to provide air dominance to other region. If air supriority can be achived by a very good dog fighter then IAF would have gone to Mig 29 or F16 . But they are no match for range and payload of Su30.

do you thing any small fighter has a 1 to 1 chance of winning airfight with this beast within its kill range.

armed with 10 BVRm at max this can fire more missile at a time than the opponent can carry . you can have at max 4 bvrm in jf17, but it wont be flown in that config usually. Usually it should be 2.. just think about 2 against 10 and thrust vector and 2 (130Kn engine). it will provide more power to its avionics then a single engine.

so unless JF17 gets more hard point and better engine, within kill range of each other su30 has more chance of survival than jf17..

And one more point a missle can pull 40g but a fighter cant. so even f22 can be shot by a missile by chance if it is locked

 

[flanker143]

We will have 300 JF17 thunders by 2014/2015 , and will get 100 J10B by 2015-2016 our seleves

plzz pull up a source for ur claims .....

 

[TaimiKhan]

Guys, don't make it into another JF-17 Vs MKI thing, keep it to other threads, not this one.

 

[Storm Force]

To be fair to the PAF and the JF17 let make a couple of points.

The THUNDER is not PAF answer to the su30mki

For this i believe the F16/52 & J10 is the answer.

The THUNDER is here to replace 300 odd F7 & MIRAGE 5 planes

PAF is not gearing itself to take a massive air war into india. THE PAKISTANIS REALISE AND ACNOWLEDGE that india,s vast military infrastructure and huge strategic depth makes this impossible for a relative small air power.

THE PAFS DOCTRINE IS PURELY defensive in nature and they intend to fight over pak air s[pace not in indian air space.

For this reason single engined small multi role fighters with BVRs are fine.

Thunder fits this role and the budget and is free from sanctions

 

[aliyusuf]

To be fair to the PAF and the JF17 let make a couple of points.

The THUNDER is not PAF answer to the su30mki

For this i believe the F16/52 & J10 is the answer.

The THUNDER is here to replace 300 odd F7 & MIRAGE 5 planes

PAF is not gearing itself to take a massive air war into india. THE PAKISTANIS REALISE AND ACNOWLEDGE that india,s vast military infrastructure and huge strategic depth makes this impossible for a relative small air power.

THE PAFS DOCTRINE IS PURELY defensive in nature and they intend to fight over pak air s[pace not in indian air space.

For this reason single engined small multi role fighters with BVRs are fine.

Thunder fits this role and the budget and is free from sanctions

That is correct.

That is PAF's strategy and the role the JF-17s are meant for. Another aspect of it is to keep the IAF off PA while it is facing the IA. And in doing so, it will also try to harass the IA in CAS role.

Considering that there will be
1) 8 AEW platforms i.e. 4 EriEyes & 4 ZDK-03s
2) A BVR armed fleet of around 400 fighters (in the next 5 to 7 years)
3) Integrated net-centric C4I umbrella

So it is primarily about denying IAF Air Superiority over Pakistani air space ... hence credible deterrence is achievable.

 

[Nahraf]

THE PAFS DOCTRINE IS PURELY defensive in nature and they intend to fight over pak air space not in indian air space

Not necessarily. Offense is the best defense. I don't want Pakistan to became battleground. We have to take the war into enemy's territory. I hope PAF will add long-range two engine fighter/bombers in the near future.

We will have 300 JF17 thunders by 2014/2015

Are we going to manufacture 5 JF-17 per month from July-2010 to July-2015 in order to have 300 ?

 

[Luftwaffe]

Due to funds so far 150 is a confirmed figure, will go up to 250 perhaps after 2014-2015.

 

[MastanKhan]

To be fair to the PAF and the JF17 let make a couple of points.

The THUNDER is not PAF answer to the su30mki

For this i believe the F16/52 & J10 is the answer.

The THUNDER is here to replace 300 odd F7 & MIRAGE 5 planes

PAF is not gearing itself to take a massive air war into india. THE PAKISTANIS REALISE AND ACNOWLEDGE that india,s vast military infrastructure and huge strategic depth makes this impossible for a relative small air power.

THE PAFS DOCTRINE IS PURELY defensive in nature and they intend to fight over pak air s[pace not in indian air space.

For this reason single engined small multi role fighters with BVRs are fine.

Thunder fits this role and the budget and is free from sanctions

Hi,

When you let the enemy come to your house to fight the battle---you have already lost the war. That is a defeatist mentality---and that is what the paf is currently living under.

They need air superiority fighters and deep strike fighters---.

If you start the battle with your back against the wall then the battle is yours to lose----in this scenario there is no flexibility----it is do or die---.

PAF has never been a defencive air force----even if they are saying----it is for public consumption.

The air strikes will go to the heartland of india and deeper.

Why do you think they are going with the smaller concept---with smart bombs---a Jf17 with advanced avionics will be extremely deadly. Jf 17 instead of becoming a point defence fighter maybe used more so for ground attacks----and the higher number of BLK 52's and mlu F 16's be used against any intrusion or air dominance---.

If the plan is to replace the F7's and the mirages 3/5 with the jf 17----then it is very obvious that the role of the jf will be totally different that what was originally anticipated by everyone including myself.

Paf has already decided on two aircraft ie the F16 blk 52 and the JF 17----the third one would emerge after the indians had picked up their mrca----.

The increased number of order of the blk 52's tells a different story.

 

[mjnaushad]

plzz pull up a source for ur claims .....

Thats why we say go through the thread before posting useless rant.

Read this post.

 

[bc040400065]

i have a question. Why the Chinese and PAF went for the Russian engine when one another local chinese option was available. Im talking about the WS9 engine used on the JH7.

Xian WS9 (a license-built Spey Mk202) afterburning turbofans
Dry thrust: 54.29 kN (12,250 lbf) each
Thrust with afterburner: 91.26 kN (20,515 lbf) each .

As i see it it has more thrust than RD93. So why not WS9 ??

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

PAF had scores of succesful sorties in enemy territory (Pattankot / Kailaikunda raids being among some of the highly famed ones)

Squadron 19 turned Amritsar radar (AKA ''fish oil'') into fantastic fireworks, one of the most succesful missions, given the amount of ack-ack fire confronting our pilots.


PAF follows a purely defensive and OFFENSIVE-defence strategy. We've fared well against hindustanys in this regard, IMHO.