JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 2]

[hj786]

One of the reason the F-16 became such a huge success, in my opinion, is because it had a lot of potential for upgrades. It kept getting better and deadlier as time went on, particularly because of advancements in Electrical Engineering. As an engineering student, I understand that this outstanding achievement is not a fluke, rather, this characteristic of the F-16 of 'getting better with time' must have been one of General Dynamics primary objectives while designing the plane.

From all that I have read and understood about the JF-17, it, too, seems to have been designed along the same lines. Does this mean, then, that the JF-17 is poised to have as illustrious a career as the F-16 is having? Or, is it too late for a new 4th Gen aircraft to be as successful as the F-16 due to the dawn of the new, stealth generation?

I have read somewhere that F-16 was originally designed not to be upgraded! The original designers at General Dynamics wanted the F-16 to stay a lightweight close-combat aircraft. They did not want it to be upgraded with so many new systems that it would become heavy and sluggish. They actually filled some spaces in the airframe (near the cockpit I think) with styrofoam in an effort to prevent more avionics being fitted in these cavities!
Can anybody confirm this? I am sure I have read this somewhere.
Of course these efforts were useless. All the production F-16s after the prototype had a stretched airframe, giving space for upgrades. They were 25% heavier than the prototype according to Wikipedia.

As for the JF-17, it does have the potential to be a slightly smaller and cheaper F-16. Only time will tell. If PAF thinks it is worth the all the investment, it must be a pretty decent jet.

 

[PAFAce]

I have read somewhere that F-16 was originally designed not to be upgraded!

That is very interesting. I must add here, upgrading certain parts of the aircraft does not add weight. For example, installing a more robust and user friendly software (ex. HUD) on a microcontroller does not affect its weight. I don't think it would be feasible to ever design an MRCA, which is what the F-16 was designed to be, to be non-upgradable in every department. Maybe the upgrades were meant to be more electronic and less mechanical. However, I would be very interested in reading that article you refer to.

As for the original question. Do you think its possible for another 4th Gen fighter, such as the JF-17, to enjoy the kind of success the F-16 enjoyed, or has that possibility been ended by the new 5th Gen fighters.

 

[Shiny Capstar]

I have read somewhere that F-16 was originally designed not to be upgraded! The original designers at General Dynamics wanted the F-16 to stay a lightweight close-combat aircraft. They did not want it to be upgraded with so many new systems that it would become heavy and sluggish. They actually filled some spaces in the airframe (near the cockpit I think) with styrofoam in an effort to prevent more avionics being fitted in these cavities!
Can anybody confirm this? I am sure I have read this somewhere.
Of course these efforts were useless. All the production F-16s after the prototype had a stretched airframe, giving space for upgrades. They were 25% heavier than the prototype according to Wikipedia.

As for the JF-17, it does have the potential to be a slightly smaller and cheaper F-16. Only time will tell. If PAF thinks it is worth the all the investment, it must be a pretty decent jet.

I think it was the Fighter Mafia mainly that wanted the F16 not to be upgraded and be kept as a lightweight fighter without the 'Gold plating' of extra technology.

 

[Neo]

From all that I have read and understood about the JF-17, it, too, seems to have been designed along the same lines. Does this mean, then, that the JF-17 is poised to have as illustrious a career as the F-16 is having? Or, is it too late for a new 4th Gen aircraft to be as successful as the F-16 due to the dawn of the new, stealth generation?

Indeed, JF-17 has been designed in the same lines. Its a low maintenance and low cost aircraft designed for all plug-and-fly kind of upgrades from global manufacturers. It has the potential to become the poor man's F-16.
During IDEAS 2008 hosted November last year it was stated that the Thunder has an export potential of about 800 birds.

 

[PAFAce]

During IDEAS 2008 hosted November last year it was stated that the Thunder has an export potential of about 800 birds.

That would generate quite a bit of revenue, shared amongst Pakistan and China ofcourse. Either way, its the first step on the ladder.

A question for those who follow Electronic Warfare type stuff. How much development would it take to create an Electronic Warfare version of the JF-17? Also, is it really needed and feasible?

I've already got a name for it, EJF-17 Lightning (get it? Thunder and Lighning, Static Discharge, Electromagnetic Activity). Maybe its a bit too nerdy.

 

[Neo]

Do we need a JF-17 for EW role when we have 5 Erieyes and another four Chinese AWACS coming?

 

[PAFAce]

I think AWACS don't cover all Electronic Warfare. I am talking about more active or aggressive use of EW, such as EW JF-17s leading our bombers, jamming SAM radars and blinding the enemy before a major ground attack. Something of the sort the EF-111 'Spark-vark' accomplished for the Americans in Iraq.

 

[jawadqamar]

ASIAN DEFENCE

From above source:

PAF is looking for an AESA radar to equip JF-17 relatively sooner. China's No 14 Research Institute / Nanjing Research Institute of Electronic Technology NRIET and Western firms are all developing suitable contenders, and have offered them to PAF during IDEAS 2008.

PAF is also looking to equip JF-17 with the latest weapon-systems; it was offered MBDA Meteor and MICA. This suggests that PAF is looking for a new generation ramjet based LRAAM as well as 5th generation WVRAAM. China is also competing, but its BVRAAM will not be ramjet based...but comparable to AIM-120C5.............

 

[jupiter2007]

Pakistan has 12 JF-17.

Does anyone know how many orginal Super7 / FC-1 does Pakistan have?

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/en/foc...xinsrc_e641a95bb20d11d787080004230fa702_1.jpg

http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/v185/GoldenChineseDragon/FC-1_03_mag_2_r.jpg

 

[jawadqamar]

Pakistan has 12 JF-17.

Does anyone know how many orginal Super7 / FC-1 does Pakistan have?

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/en/foc...xinsrc_e641a95bb20d11d787080004230fa702_1.jpg

http://img61.photobucket.com/albums/v185/GoldenChineseDragon/FC-1_03_mag_2_r.jpg

According to news from ideas 2008 Pakistan now have 17 JF-17 Thunders


Is this one of the first prototype or a dummy??

 

[Tempest II]

Well, I initially thought it a PS or a mock-up too. I think check the galley and found these:

 

[Zob]

by the way when will pakistan start getting the deliveries for AIM-120C5. i read a post saying the delivery starts in 2008...however we still haven't recieved any yet. and given the current stand off do u think that JF-17's can be equippied with these BVR's!!

 

[Owais]

by the way when will pakistan start getting the deliveries for AIM-120C5. i read a post saying the delivery starts in 2008...however we still haven't recieved any yet. and given the current stand off do u think that JF-17's can be equippied with these BVR's!!

there is no official news regarding AIM120 delivery however there are some rumors according to which we have received 125 of them in November.
also, current version of JF17 uses MIL-STD-1553 data bus which do not support any western BVR but JF17 can be equipped with MIL-STD-1760 data bus to support western systems. right now, the primary BVR of JF17 will be SD10 & MICA

 

[jupiter2007]

Well, I initially thought it a PS or a mock-up too. I think check the galley and found these:

Both planes are different, on the left is the initial super7 project and the picture is from between 1998-2001. It poped up on the internet around 2001.

Second picture is JF-17 Thunder 2nd prototype and it's from around 2003-2004.

 

[Zob]

two questions...firstly will the first squadron of JF-17's soon to be integrated inshallah... wil it have Air to air refuelling capability or not...secondly will it have BVR capability i am talking about the first squadron...or squadrons!!