JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Ghessan]

So, how many of members think, it would be 'stealthy'! how many of you think inlet, LERX, slats will have noticable changes! @All who wants to take a shot.

if the engine is same we may see inlet changes,

 

[Shah_Deu]

Flight Global said that the inlets will be widened a bit, but otherwise, you were quite clear that 'stealthiness' or 'low observable' (LO) airframes weren't the end-all-be-all.

Athough enlarging the inlet size is inversely proportional to the aircraft RCS since a larger intake could expose the turbine blades (reflective surface area) even further which could as a result increase the RCS. Its a delicate balancing act and a possible tradeoff one at the cost of the other.
Anyhow very interesting development, more HPs, a higher thrust engine coupled with an AESA radar and a built in self protection jammer could turn JF-17 into a true 4.5 gen fighter able to stand its own ground vis a vis Rafales.

 

[Shabi1]

Athough enlarging the inlet size is inversely proportional to the aircraft RCS since a larger intake might expose the turbine blades (reflective surface area) even further which could as a result increase the RCS. Its a delicate balancing act and a possible tradeoff one at the cost of the other.
Anyhow very interesting development, more HPs, a higher thrust engine coupled with an AESA radar and a built in self protection jammer could turn JF-17 into a true 4.5 gen fighter able to stand its own ground vis a vis Rafales.

In case of JF-17 the DSI bumps hide the turbine blades so enlarging intakes should not have any adverse impact on RCS.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/radar-101-and-dsi-intakes-discussion.32552/page-3
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/dsi.htm
The smooth transitions between a combat jet's fuselage and intake, such configurations can provide a drastic reduction in radar cross section, lowering an aircraft's detectability on radar, especially at higher frequencies. Another useful attribute of the interaction between the forward swept intake cowl and the smooth hump blended surface between the intake and the fuselage is that it provides far less exposure to radar waves, especially from oblique angles, of an aircraft's jet engine fan face. The engine face is traditionally one of a combat jet's most radar reflective components. When the DSI concept is integrated into a clean sheet design and/or an aircraft utilizes curved intakes, baffle systems, and radar blocking devices, the radar return caused by a combat jet's motor face and traditional intake can be almost totally eliminated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverterless_supersonic_inlet#Stealth
DSIs also crucially improve the aircraft's very-low-observable characteristics (by eliminating radar reflections between the diverter and the aircraft's skin).[1] Additionally, the "bump" surface reduces the engine's exposure to radar, significantly reducing a strong source of radar reflection[6] because they provide an additional shielding of engine fans against radar waves.

Analysts have noted that the DSI reduces the need for application of radar-absorbent materials.[1][7]

 

[araz]

So, how many of members think, it would be 'stealthy'! how many of you think inlet, LERX, slats will have noticable changes! @All who wants to take a shot.

It wont be stealthy although with more composite useage I dont know whether the RCS will go down further. There has been news of changes in inlet and these have been widened but would it be appreciable or not remains to be seen
I am interested in whether the chin mounted hardpoint has gone on or not? Secondly whether there is a DER for SD10As or not. Lastly and this remains my wish rather than any expectation increase in hardpoints to 10 (including chin HP) although I suspect it wont happen.
All changes will be under the skin.
A

We must auction block 1s once Block 3 production has crossed 40, so that we further produce more for ourselves

Have you forgotten your 7Ps and Pgs and nonupgraded M3/5s? How will you replace those?
A

 

[AsifIjaz]

Other than the inlet, lerex and dorsal spine changes the only other physical changes that i can realistically think of are

... Redesigned landing gear
or
a mini cft around dorsal spine one which can hold 6 to 800 litres per cft (2nd option is highly unlikely of the two)

... One extra chin mounted hard point

 

[The Eagle]

So, how many of members think, it would be 'stealthy'! how many of you think inlet, LERX, slats will have noticable changes! @All who wants to take a shot.

You have really lightened the show here... Thank you indeed.

My guess are no change in tail except for stabilizer & mostly similar to Block-II;
As reported, a bit enlarged Inlets;
(which will effect in) LERX re modification but that too with little change;
SLATs = Yes, as you have defined for more than couple of times as well and I am interested in that regime personally to see it trolling the opponent;
Stealthy in the sense of RAM coating & electronically but one can expect little in regard to major design changes;
Frontal may see a bit of change to reduce RCS;

Or I can expect a surprise in regard to a much more aggressive yet qualitative design parameters.

Guessing like everyone else & there is no relation to official version, I say.

 

[Deino]

Come on .... please show some pictures!! Don'T be so shy ...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1203031999356788736

 

[Zarvan]

Come on .... please show some pictures!! Don'T be so shy ...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1203031999356788736

You are his friend on twitter ask him to share pictures

 

[Deino]

You are his friend on twitter ask him to share pictures

I think it's safe to assume that he is not the photographer nor a wall climber. He's just a very good connected guy who posts news ... but I'm sure if there are images available then he will be one f the first to post them.

 

[StormBreaker]

It wont be stealthy although with more composite useage I dont know whether the RCS will go down further. There has been news of changes in inlet and these have been widened but would it be appreciable or not remains to be seen
I am interested in whether the chin mounted hardpoint has gone on or not? Secondly whether there is a DER for SD10As or not. Lastly and this remains my wish rather than any expectation increase in hardpoints to 10 (including chin HP) although I suspect it wont happen.
All changes will be under the skin.
A


Have you forgotten your 7Ps and Pgs and nonupgraded M3/5s? How will you replace those?
A

I have always wished to see J-10 replacing Mirages, around 56 J-10C by 2026-7 would suffice. Ps and PGs should be replaced by Block 3.

Athough enlarging the inlet size is inversely proportional to the aircraft RCS since a larger intake could expose the turbine blades (reflective surface area) even further which could as a result increase the RCS. Its a delicate balancing act and a possible tradeoff one at the cost of the other.
Anyhow very interesting development, more HPs, a higher thrust engine coupled with an AESA radar and a built in self protection jammer could turn JF-17 into a true 4.5 gen fighter able to stand its own ground vis a vis Rafales.

In this case, the proportionality remains constant. If intakes get bigger, so will DSI bumps, DSI helps in reducing frontal RCS due to it’s location of acting as a cover and as a result avoid direct exposure of turbine blades.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

We must auction block 1s once Block 3 production has crossed 40, so that we further produce more for ourselves

Why? What's wrong with them? Are they inferior to F-7s and Mirages in Pakistan's current inventory?

 

[StormBreaker]

My very dear YoungPak,

You know I am non-technical and only look at our assets as Policy Instruements... so the following is going to be through that angle...

Our esteemed sister @messiach has thrown a curve ball and has actually said more in her question than we might realise... her characteristic modus operandi

Block3 entails:

1. Total new plumbing... a generational jump harnessing experience from the Chinese advancements and our technical inputs/collaborations... under the skin a new aircraft!!!
   
2. Composites already given but far more intensive.. thus reducing RCS further for already small RCS giving it 'stealthiness'
3. More load carrying capacity than Blk2
4. Better sensor fusion and lesser load on pilots... better integeration with ground/air/space assets for better situational awareness, inbuilt ECM/EW
   
5. PL15 given
6. RAM coating given
   
7. Mach 2 speed... more efficent engine as well...
8. Better meantime for overhaul
9. Blk3 is Larger than Blk2

On the flight of fantasy side:

1. Redesigned front end with angular front
2. Canted vertical stablisers
3. More feul carrying capacity hence longer rage/ station time
4. Able to carry Ra'ad II
5. A best in its class fighter
6. Able to control Drones and act as Electronic Intelligence Gathering platform

As respected madam @messiach has hinted about larger intakes, and the pic of Block 3 we saw above (in the promotional poster), the resemblance to frontal angle of J-31/F-22 is quite much in terms of intake. This as a result might suggest that the bottom fuselage is wider which in turn solves some issues and adds functionality.

- New Placements/room for landing gear which might totally result in a new gear
- OBOGS easy placement behind canopy thanks to landing gear issue solved
- Since landing gear could have been modified, RAAD 2 is automatically ON.
- 2 more Hps possibly under fuselage totalling it to a figure of 3, just like under J-20 fuselage where apart from the internal bay, there is a right and a left bay, in our case, HP.

And if my hypothesis comes out completely/partially true, we are looking at a whole new fighter, a true BEAST, with the inherited name of Thunder but nothing like Block 1 and 2.

@Signalian @aliyusuf @HRK

Why? What's wrong with them? Are they inferior to F-7s and Mirages in Pakistan's current inventory?

Nope, we can in their place, produce more Block 3s and keep the assembly line running as well as increase our standards.

Upgrading previous blocks and introducing all together an upgraded plane has quite a difference.

 

[Deino]

...´
Blk3 is Larger than Blk2

And that's indeed the point I'm most skeptical regardless how reliable she is. If larger is "just a few cm", then it might be ok, but IMO such posts are misleading since once again a few fan-boys immediately jump the band wagon and expect it to be a J-10-sized fighter with a WS-10. And that to assume is ridiculous.

 

[StormBreaker]

And that's indeed the point I'm most skeptical regardless how reliable she is. If larger is "just a few cm", then it might be ok, but IMO such posts are misleading since once again a few fan-boys immediately jump the band wagon and expect it to be a J-10-sized fighter with a WS-10. And that to assume is ridiculous.

lol

 

[aliaselin]

Come on .... please show some pictures!! Don'T be so shy ...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1203031999356788736

I know why he said about it. But the information he got from may make some pakistani here not happy.