JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Nomad40]

IF we see the picture closely, few things will be clear
1st about radar.
2nd Height of the aircraft is taller than bk-01 & bk-02, which Ra'ad ALCM can be integrated in the future.
3rd Pl-15 will be too bigger for wings of bk-03, which will look weird.
4th no Irst will be integrated.
5th still no sign of RD-93MA most probably.
View attachment 704505
View attachment 704507

I am amazed you can comment on the Height (ground clearance) of the aircraft in its given position



I would like to know more.

 

[Trango Towers]

never

Why?

agreed doesnt have the wing loading (f-15) nor body lift (f-16) to sustain something like that. Also the Rd-93ma isnt going to be as serious a power up as the evolution of the F100s and F110s.

So it can carry the extra load as a drop tank and the wing loading is sufficient but incorporating conformal tanks the wing loading is not sufficient. Oh dear

 

[GumNaam]

Why?

Infact the fact that the Block-III would be just the next step was reiterated ad-nauseum by more experienced and/or professional members here for the past 5 years. Yet, we had so many here and those p—-dus posting YouTube videos proclaiming that Block-III was the Ibn-Raptor al Bakistan?

The F-16 Block-20 is barely different from the block-30 to the casual observer -only when the EW spine on the family model was added for the Israelis did some change get noticed. Infact the block aspect of F-16 gave it a huge advantage when it came to upgrades and capabilities. Also why our block-15MLU’s can go toe to toe with Raptors of the east in terms of avionics.

The block-III isn’t just a JF-17 step, it is a AZM step as well. Everything from the systems integration for AESA,EW and cockpit changed has added knowledge to PAC. The Block-I’s are nearing their mid-life to twilight stage - not sure how much but a lot could be recycled from there.

More importantly,while the Chinese have been holding us back purely for their own financial interests - today with a bit more effort you can at the least roll out a complete fuselage of a high performance fighter, add components from suppliers you are not afraid of sanctions or restrictions, and use any weapon you want so long as it is compatible and restriction free - and fly it to your hearts content without worrying about spares stock or approval from some foreign power.

From the year 2001 where you were rationing your only high end aircraft and cannibalizing them , praying and hoping that your mig-21 facsimiles would be able to defend using meagre GCI against an adversary having 140 high tech jets and fairly potent strike assets while you could only hope to provide CAS with some degree of success; to being able to paralyze your enemy , gain air superiority in their airspace to carry out offensive operations at will - while knowing that one of your top two assets has enough spares to keep it going at full wartime tempo at high double digit serviceability while the other you make the jet, service and fly to your hearts content.

Did I mention that from 2001 with ZERO high performance interception assets with BVR and potent ECM to having about 180+ of those?(About 60% of your interception/air superiority assets)

All the while you went into essentially a country ravaged by extremism, corruption and social unrest for the better part of the last 20 years..

Why were people expecting anything different? Does everyone in Pakistan have Bani-Israel heritage? No, tell your god to make us an idol - we don’t want to work, pray or get mon and salwa.

@ Ibn-e-raptor al Bakistan!

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Why?

Infact the fact that the Block-III would be just the next step was reiterated ad-nauseum by more experienced and/or professional members here for the past 5 years. Yet, we had so many here and those p—-dus posting YouTube videos proclaiming that Block-III was the Ibn-Raptor al Bakistan?

The F-16 Block-20 is barely different from the block-30 to the casual observer -only when the EW spine on the family model was added for the Israelis did some change get noticed. Infact the block aspect of F-16 gave it a huge advantage when it came to upgrades and capabilities. Also why our block-15MLU’s can go toe to toe with Raptors of the east in terms of avionics.

The block-III isn’t just a JF-17 step, it is a AZM step as well. Everything from the systems integration for AESA,EW and cockpit changed has added knowledge to PAC. The Block-I’s are nearing their mid-life to twilight stage - not sure how much but a lot could be recycled from there.

More importantly,while the Chinese have been holding us back purely for their own financial interests - today with a bit more effort you can at the least roll out a complete fuselage of a high performance fighter, add components from suppliers you are not afraid of sanctions or restrictions, and use any weapon you want so long as it is compatible and restriction free - and fly it to your hearts content without worrying about spares stock or approval from some foreign power.

From the year 2001 where you were rationing your only high end aircraft and cannibalizing them , praying and hoping that your mig-21 facsimiles would be able to defend using meagre GCI against an adversary having 140 high tech jets and fairly potent strike assets while you could only hope to provide CAS with some degree of success; to being able to paralyze your enemy , gain air superiority in their airspace to carry out offensive operations at will - while knowing that one of your top two assets has enough spares to keep it going at full wartime tempo at high double digit serviceability while the other you make the jet, service and fly to your hearts content.

Did I mention that from 2001 with ZERO high performance interception assets with BVR and potent ECM to having about 180+ of those?(About 60% of your interception/air superiority assets)

All the while you went into essentially a country ravaged by extremism, corruption and social unrest for the better part of the last 20 years..

Why were people expecting anything different? Does everyone in Pakistan have Bani-Israel heritage? No, tell you god to make us an idol - we don’t want to work, pray or get mon and salwa.

In as far as multirole assets go, the PAF seems to be happy with the JF-17, especially as a defensive system.

With AEW&C and BVR, it's a credible threat.

Sure, the Gripen and F-16 might present a bigger threat by virtue of their subsystems and weapons, but that is a question of net-improvement over any gap in the PAF's capabilities.

When the U.S. goes to war, the USAF has the luxury of knowing its enemies generally lack fleet-wide modern BVR, AEW&C, etc.

In the IAF's case, it's a question of 'who has better BVR, AEW&C, etc.' While they can make some informed conclusions about a few capabilities (e.g., Meteor), but in most cases, it's a toss-up.

The more the PAF draws on Chinese technology, the more the IAF's challenge will mirror that of the US.

Though the Chinese want to keep us as a customer, I'm interested in seeing if they'll be OK with releasing the technology we need for strategic purposes.

The JF-17 delivers the baseline defensive capability, and the J-10CE is on offer with an improved set of systems and weapons on that front.

However, the PAF is perpetually lacking in a long-range strike element. Besides the B-57, Pakistan never caught a break in that department -- e.g., America balked on the A-7s, we couldn't secure Mirage 2000-5/9s, etc.

There's a reason why the CAS said AZM should be a twin-engine fighter -- i.e., the PAF wants a true strike-capable platform.

That would be a game-changer as it would not only complete our strategic triad, but give us the means to inflict lasting damage conventionally.

I'm sure the US is going to raise a stink with China on this issue. I actually don't think the Chinese can even export such a system to us, hence AZM may well be a ploy to get the capability without the US being able to cleanly pin it on Beijing.

 

[mingle]

no irst

No need we can use Acelpod or other pod

 

[m52k85]

Rd93ma is enough power
Its 20% up from baseline

Deino gets angry when people make claims without substance
Well its true for you too..

Plans smaller then jf17 have flown with CFTs
Whether PAF things it will fit in its doctorine is when the decision on CFTs be made
With f16 taking front load and rd93 base engine its unlikly
But we arent sure abt new block3

The wet number is up from 83 to 93, dont know about the dry number: up from 50 kN to ?? It would have to go up to 60 kN for a 20% increase which i find difficult.

Yes I acknowledge I didnt give a source about lift, the comment was based off three things:
1. Theres been plenty of literature out there as to what % of lift an f16 gets from body (I think its something like 20%, again dont remember source)
2. There was a recent comment by either SL or KT that f16 and jf17 'wing' loading is similar.
3. Jf17 body is quite round compared to f16 (though some lift comes from LERX - but I understand that is more about the JF and Hornets' excellent nose authority)

Putting the above three together was why I made the comment about lift. If someone can get actual numbers and put them together that would be great, unfortunately i dont have the time, but i think it can be done from open source.

Finally, CFT on smaller planes than JF17: are they combat planes? Can you give some examples? Thanks.

 

[siegecrossbow]

For all of you Thunders fans who are disappointed that block 3 didn't get an IRST --- Yankeesama has a solution. The JF-17 could potentially integrate the IRST and fuel tank as they did on IRST21 developed by Lockmart.

https://user.guancha.cn/main/content?id=443477

 

[RAMPAGE]

Finally, CFT on smaller planes than JF17: are they combat planes? Can you give some examples? Thanks.

F-CK-1D prototype.

CFTs have already been tested on the JF-17.

 

[ziaulislam]

The wet number is up from 83 to 93, dont know about the dry number: up from 50 kN to ?? It would have to go up to 60 kN for a 20% increase which i find difficult.

Yes I acknowledge I didnt give a source about lift, the comment was based off three things:
1. Theres been plenty of literature out there as to what % of lift an f16 gets from body (I think its something like 20%, again dont remember source)
2. There was a recent comment by either SL or KT that f16 and jf17 'wing' loading is similar.
3. Jf17 body is quite round compared to f16 (though some lift comes from LERX - but I understand that is more about the JF and Hornets' excellent nose authority)

Putting the above three together was why I made the comment about lift. If someone can get actual numbers and put them together that would be great, unfortunately i dont have the time, but i think it can be done from open source.

Finally, CFT on smaller planes than JF17: are they combat planes? Can you give some examples? Thanks.

if you look up it will increase from 49 to 59
it is 20% increase
the after burn will increase from around 83 to 94 around 15% increase

 

[Path-Finder]

The best Thing about this plane is the internet vedick techlologist's who claim to some gift to the world with their s#it stain remarks.

 

[ziaulislam]

RD 33MK has official thrust of 56 & 90, so even if they stick to rd33MK baseline model it is still good 15% increase in thrust. There were reports that further increase in possible

so we should assume a dry thrust increase from somewhere between 15-20%, much more improve in fuel efficacy if you look at numbers..

all of this translates into much better safety and endurance

we all know that any future rd 33 variants will be based upon rd 33mk

http://www.klimov.ru/en/production/aircraft/RD-33MK/

http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-systems/engines/rd-33mk/

 

[khanasifm]

Visible in pic under intake hardpoint attachment for 8th pylon 4 ldp or pods

 

[Riz]

The best Thing about this plane is the internet vedick techlologist's who claim to some gift to the world with their s#it stain remarks.

So it was you who was spreading stealth JF-17 pics on internet since 5 years on internet...

 

[Deino]

...
Deino gets angry when people make claims without substance
Well its true for you too..

Plans smaller then jf17 have flown with CFTs

I need to apologise, and indeed I cannot prove. As such it is only my own opinion.
Sorry for making that not clear but yesterday school has started again and there quite too much to do. Sorry.

Anyway, from my understanding there were no plans for CFT on the JF-17 and not even one shown on models. But again I'm not sure.

But what smaller planes than the JF have been tested with CFTs?

CFTs have already been tested on the JF-17.

This is at by by knowledge not correct! Or can you tell more?

 

[Khanate]

PAF is quite clearly satisfied with RD-93 performance and sees few gains for JF-17 with an RD-93MA.

JF-17 fans may like to see the programme extended to Block IV and Block V to fulfill their wish list (integrated IRST, new engine, etc) but I don't believe PAF is going down this road anytime soon. PAF could revisit the JF-17 programme periodically over the next decade to review new developments and evaluate new offerings but from here onward the focus and resources will shift to project AZM.