JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Path-Finder]

So it was you who was spreading stealth JF-17 pics on internet since 5 years on internet...

 

[Tank131]

@SQ8 wins the internet.

 

[ziaulislam]

I need to apologise, and indeed I cannot prove. As such it is only my own opinion.
Sorry for making that not clear but yesterday school has started again and there quite too much to do. Sorry.

Anyway, from my understanding there were no plans for CFT on the JF-17 and not even one shown on models. But again I'm not sure.

But what smaller planes than the JF have been tested with CFTs?




This is at by by knowledge not correct! Or can you tell more?

PAF tested them on F6
Taiwan tested them on their fighter FCK-1 a smaller aircraft, though they also deemed it to be less useful given underpowered status of FCK-1

will PAF get them on block3, tough to say, probably not if they get more f16s, may be if they dont get an additional fighter..the key will be how good the rd93ma is

the reason why CFT works so good in f15, F16d, super hornet f18 etc is that their engines are overkill for the aircraft

 

[RAMPAGE]

I need to apologise, and indeed I cannot prove. As such it is only my own opinion.
Sorry for making that not clear but yesterday school has started again and there quite too much to do. Sorry.

Anyway, from my understanding there were no plans for CFT on the JF-17 and not even one shown on models. But again I'm not sure.

But what smaller planes than the JF have been tested with CFTs?




This is at by by knowledge not correct! Or can you tell more?

Much of the information we believe, and very rationally too, is by-by knowledge. If the claimant is considered credible by his peers and the claim holds up against critical scrutiny, we can usually safely believe his or her claim, without empirically testing it ourselves, while still acknowledging some probability of error. The person who made this claim was credible, and there is every reason to believe that the JF-17 airframe can support CFTs. The only question is if they provide any considerable advantage. If they do, you can rest assured that the JF-17 will grow CFTs.

 

[Deino]

Much of the information we believe, and very rationally too, is by-by knowledge. If the claimant is considered credible by his peers and the claim holds up against critical scrutiny, we can usually safely believe his or her claim, without empirically testing it ourselves, while still acknowledging some probability of error. The person who made this claim was credible, and there is every reason to believe that the JF-17 airframe can support CFTs. The only question is if they provide any considerable advantage. If they do, you can rest assured that the JF-17 will grow CFTs.

Thanks for your reply but may I ask who claimed that?

 

[SQ8]

@SQ8 wins the internet.

The internet has zero relevance to me as some “win” - those who need that can be seen roaming around begging for recognition from any fool that will listen.

What is important is everyone being informed from the right sources and making conclusions or even speculation grounded in reality. All of those that pointed out this exact aircraft weren’t just doing it because they heard in some drawing room but because whether by direct or indirect experience and official or unofficial education/interest understood not just aircraft design challenges and program management but also the R&D environment of Pakistan and its output capacity.

The USAF just claimed to roll out a 6th gen prototype within a year ; we don’t what that is but it is very believable because they did the same with their resources and tenacity in the 1950’s as well. Pakistan has tenacity but little in the way of resources to match it - so whatever the JF-17 block 3 is matches that capacity.

Once resources open up, we will see higher end war fighting concepts, autonomous wingmen and all we hear as science fiction because the thinkers are there, the ideas are there or are adapted because people read and research. Couple that with the right leadership and you will see achievements- or the opposite with poor leaders.

The block-3 is delayed but it was causing ripples beyond our borders, @Raider 21 has hinted elsewhere what carrots were/are dangled to Pakistan just to drop AZM. However, if anyone is still delusional that AZM is a exo-atmospheric energy weapon armed aircraft than they can be disappointed mid-2024.

Thanks for your reply but may I ask who claimed that?

I do recall that claim being made - just from a design perspective I both have a “why not” but also a “not feasible “ concurrently. Smaller aircraft have had conformal tanks(Meteor, Attacker, F-6 and so on) just bolted on in a roughshod manner. Even the J-10S was rumored to have tested some concave tanks out but unless there is a powerful enough engine to boot I see CFT’s causing the takeoff weight to exceed with anything other than a minimum CAP load.
The Viper ES needed some reinforcements at the spars but its blended design adds to the strength, I am not sure if the JF (whose first crAsh was caused by structural disintegration) would take it. However, better informed or knowledgeable people can comment more.

 

[araz]

No I think it regular JFT not block-3, block-3 has slimmer nose than block-1/2

Bhai saheb. Khairiyat!!!!
When have you seen a block 2 with under the inlet hardpoint? This is block 3. Nose cone varies depending on angles and distance from which photograph taken.
A

 

[RAMPAGE]

Thanks for your reply but may I ask who claimed that?

@messiach

 

[araz]

Why?

The fact that the Block-III would be just the next step was reiterated ad-nauseum by more experienced and/or professional members here for the past 5 years. Yet, we had so many here and those p—-dus posting YouTube videos proclaiming that Block-III was the Ibn-Raptor al Bakistan?

The F-16 Block-20 is barely different from the block-30 to the casual observer -only when the EW spine on the family model was added for the Israelis did some change get noticed. Infact the block aspect of F-16 gave it a huge advantage when it came to upgrades and capabilities. Also why our block-15MLU’s can go toe to toe with Raptors of the east in terms of avionics.

The block-III isn’t just a JF-17 step, it is a AZM step as well. Everything from the systems integration for AESA,EW and cockpit changed has added knowledge to PAC. The Block-I’s are nearing their mid-life to twilight stage - not sure how much but a lot could be recycled from there.

More importantly,while the Chinese have been holding us back purely for their own financial interests - today with a bit more effort you can at the least roll out a complete fuselage of a high performance fighter, add components from suppliers you are not afraid of sanctions or restrictions, and use any weapon you want so long as it is compatible and restriction free - and fly it to your hearts content without worrying about spares stock or approval from some foreign power.

From the year 2001 where you were rationing your only high end aircraft and cannibalizing them , praying and hoping that your mig-21 facsimiles would be able to defend using meagre GCI against an adversary having 140 high tech jets and fairly potent strike assets while you could only hope to provide CAS with some degree of success; to being able to paralyze your enemy , gain air superiority in their airspace to carry out offensive operations at will - while knowing that one of your top two assets has enough spares to keep it going at full wartime tempo at high double digit serviceability while the other you make the jet, service and fly to your hearts content.

Did I mention that from 2001 with ZERO high performance interception assets with BVR and potent ECM to having about 180+ of those?(About 60% of your interception/air superiority assets)

All the while you went into essentially a country ravaged by extremism, corruption and social unrest for the better part of the last 20 years..

Why were people expecting anything different? Does everyone in Pakistan have Bani-Israel heritage? No, tell your god to make us an idol - we don’t want to work, pray or get mon and salwa.

Thank yku for the reality check. People here think that things can be changed so easily. Secondly our partner will also want his pound of flesh/create obstructions/want us not to proceed beyond a limit where its own fighters look "not so good".
Lastly where is tbe money going to come from?
@Deino. Respectfully I agree with @Trango Towers. CFTs have been in the plans for JFT and if madam@messiach is to be believed have been in the works. We have had CFT like additions to F6s so why cant we do them to JFT? as@Trango towers mentioned if we can hang them on hardpoints why can we not have them on top of the wings? Whether they are seen in block 3 or later blocks remains to be seen. However to date I have not seen CFTs on any chinese platform so this might be a hindering factor.
The jury is very much out.
Regards

 

[ziaulislam]

Thank yku for the reality check. People here think that things can be changed so easily. Secondly our partner will also want his pound of flesh/create obstructions/want us not to proceed beyond a limit where its own fighters look "not so good".
Lastly where is tbe money going to come from?
@Deino. Respectfully I agree with @Trango Towers. CFTs have been in the plans for JFT and if madam@messiach is to be believed have been in the works. We have had CFT like additions to F6s so why cant we do them to JFT? as@Trango towers mentioned if we can hang them on hardpoints why can we not have them on top of the wings? Whether they are seen in block 3 or later blocks remains to be seen. However to date I have not seen CFTs on any chinese platform so this might be a hindering factor.
The jury is very much out.
Regards

i believe CFT will only be considered if we get a good engine, rd 93ma performance will really dictate CFT use.

if F16 wont come and if the engine is good as it is advertised(dry thrust 56++, wet thrust ~93) then CFT will come to JF17

 

[Cookie Monster]

i believe CFT will only be considered if we get a good engine, rd 93ma performance will really dictate CFT use.

if F16 wont come and if the engine is good as it is advertised(dry thrust 56++, wet thrust ~93) then CFT will come to JF17

Besides the engine Pak can look to slowly research(on its own and through China/Turkey/South Africa/Brazil and other viable option) and build industrial capability to manufacture high strength composite materials...
...slowly introduce those to JF17...which can serve as a testbed in terms of providing data about fatigue, failure rate, etc. This would be helpful in the development of Azm NGF later down the line...with the added benefit of possibly making the airframe a bit lighter...and consequently increasing thrust.

This could also be beneficial for the MALE and HALE drones if Pak plans on making those at some point.

 

[Fighting Falcon 01]

i believe CFT will only be considered if we get a good engine, rd 93ma performance will really dictate CFT use.

if F16 wont come and if the engine is good as it is advertised(dry thrust 56++, wet thrust ~93) then CFT will come to JF17

Sir what do you think about 15 to 20 percent increase in thrust and reduced weight due to additional composites how will it effect the performance of block 3?

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Sir what do you think about 15 to 20 percent increase in thrust and reduced weight due to additional composites how will it effect the performance of block 3?

I think T/R ratio is still to low to carry CFT onboard because of extra equipment, not giant leaps in term of thrust

 

[ziaulislam]

I think T/R ratio is still to low to carry CFT onboard because of extra equipment, not giant leaps in term of thrust

we dont know if rd93ma is inducted
we also dont know the thrust detail of rd93ma

rd 33mk has thrust of 56 & 93

surely rd 93ma will be based upon rd 33mk same way rd93 was based upon rd33

if this is true that is 15% boast in thrust with no major increase in weight for aircraft as a whole
block 3 will pretty much weight the same as block 2

 

[The Eagle]

Both the arguments are valid about RD-93MA unless some clear pictures and an official note. However, one cannot be so sure given the secrecy level by both countries... just look at the latest picture.