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JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

Hi,

From where you got the idea that Turkey is more advanced than us in aircraft building---your information is incorrect---.

One would be a fool to build an aircraft 4 or 5th gen by themselves---..

When I talk about building one---it is by default I am including our partner china as the lead partner---all nations who are looking to build a 5th gen aircraft---have partners.

We assisted & learned in the inital stages---but later we became partners in the build---. We are out of that frame and engine overhaul stage---.

“From where you got the idea that Turkey is more advanced than us in aircraft building---your information is incorrect---.”

Are you really asking this question?
I was taking about Turkish aviation industry.

Are we comparing ourself with Turkish aviation industry? I will let Turkish member answer this question.
Any Turkish member would like answer?


“One would be a fool to build an aircraft 4 or 5th gen by themselves---..”

France build Mirage2000 and Rafale by itself and both can be considered 4 generations fighters. France must be a foolish nation.
 
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I am also disappointed with Block 3. I thought technology from J-10C will transferee to block 3.
 

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Brother in today's world, quality matters over quantity. Look at the construction of the aircraft. Trust me, no one buys this. I met one of the USAF officers last year. He told me that he thoroughly inspects with his clan. He told me exactly the same thing that boy quality always matters when you go International in today's world. The aircraft has many issues, third-party engine including some aerodynamics (which was interesting), despite all, though the aircraft seems somehow competent again "Somehow" capable to defend the skies against the 3.5 Gen fighters but if you're expecting that your aircraft gonna get order (order doesn't someone rent it out or put order of 2 3 aircraft i.e, Nigeria, Myanmar etc), you have to be very careful in terms of construction quality. The one built-in "China" has better quality as compare to this one (UAE Air show) which is built-in Pakistan. There are many complications because of global power politics, aircraft quality & capability, engine performance and the top of it, military hardware and marketing is indeed a tough job in today's competitive market. This aircraft might take 2+ more decades or even more to get some reasonable older else seems like your airforce core focus was to accommodate replacements (Trust me he doesn't even know that the aircraft was an actual replacement of our 70% of AF fleet (A5/f7). One of my relatives who is working in the Boeing Germany told me exactly the same thing (design flaws, aircraft construction, name of few).

We must understand that the aircraft is POORLY designed (I have heard the similar kind of vibe from even our airforce officers including those who went to the US on different programs and also participated in Red Flag exercises).

Its a general perspective. Now why I don't like, these are some of the points which enhancing my hate for this aircraft but one thing which I believe, not every aircraft become Lockheed F16 and Mig29. These two aircraft designs are a MAJOR factor of its selling point and still rule among all from the past 5 decades. JF17 is pathetically, poorly designed aircraft seems like 70s look and feel and rest the last nail in the coffin "built quality". Not everything is avionics, the US has spent billions of dollars on the designs program of F22, B52, B2, etc same did by the Russians.

The counter-argument against my perspective is pure bullshit and trust me I never respond nor interested if the person doesn't understand the importance of "DESIGN". Usually the counter-response on my criticism on JF17 "If the aircraft serve the purpose......." that's enough for us. We are stuck in this kind of mind-set the reason we are FAILED to sell this aircraft even though there is NO SUCH COMPETITOR at this time of JF17 in the market at this price.

Look at the B version. More like a trainee aircraft (pregnant). No one uses such kind of bulky dual seater shit against the 4.5 5 Gen in the combat theater. The aircraft looks like someone modifying old vintage shit dinky. Imagine, you're extended Suzuki Dabba just to make something like limouse, eek din bas hojani hey ismay 2 X kay baad 4 X ka missile rack laga kar akar kitna modify karlengay isko? lol.

I knew since DAY ONE that DG ISPR lying with the public. Actually he intentionally did that. We are desperate to sell this aircraft that was the core reason of his lies. Guess what, we slowly gradually changed our stance from JF17 to F16 story (a reference to 27 Feb event). You hardly see any prominent information or ref of Jf17 even in the PAF museum about Op Swift. Anyway, the point I'm making is, we have to show and built something which serves the FUTURE. This construction quality and the design won't work in the modern world. You can integrate avionics but aerodynamics, shape, built quality, frame matters a lot.

@MastanKhan

Hi,

Look at the americans bragging about their product---. They make the shittiest of cars and they still sell them and these same american buy them and they know that they are buying sh-it---but as this is their own sh-it---they love it.

Sit in a new dodge chrysler product---and you can feel the metal frame in the seat---.

Your Boeing relative telling you about "design flaw"---did you laugh at his face and told him to shut his frigging mouth---after the 737 fiasco---he dare not talk about design flaws---. They put an engine in the wrong place of the aircraft and then they came up with computers to control it and they failed and they failed and they will fail---.

And look at the american---the modified B52 that they have come up with---Big Ugly Fat Fuckr---BUFF---what a marvelous job they have done with an upgrade---.

Fat or not---thick at the waist or not---if it flies good---if it flies high---if it has a very good fire control radar and EW package and it has excellent BVR missiles---90% of the job is done---.

Haters will hate---naysayers will say nay---.

Now for quality cntrol---that is because pakistanis have a very cheap mindset and being cheap---it will reflect n their product---.

When you have people in shalwar Kamiz in machine area---when you have paint peeling off the floor of the aircraft hangar---when senior officers are riding expensive cars and SUV's---there will always be issues---.
 
.
Brother in today's world, quality matters over quantity. Look at the construction of the aircraft. Trust me, no one buys this. I met one of the USAF officers last year. He told me that he thoroughly inspects with his clan. He told me exactly the same thing that boy quality always matters when you go International in today's world. The aircraft has many issues, third-party engine including some aerodynamics (which was interesting), despite all, though the aircraft seems somehow competent again "Somehow" capable to defend the skies against the 3.5 Gen fighters but if you're expecting that your aircraft gonna get order (order doesn't someone rent it out or put order of 2 3 aircraft i.e, Nigeria, Myanmar etc), you have to be very careful in terms of construction quality. The one built-in "China" has better quality as compare to this one (UAE Air show) which is built-in Pakistan. There are many complications because of global power politics, aircraft quality & capability, engine performance and the top of it, military hardware and marketing is indeed a tough job in today's competitive market. This aircraft might take 2+ more decades or even more to get some reasonable older else seems like your airforce core focus was to accommodate replacements (Trust me he doesn't even know that the aircraft was an actual replacement of our 70% of AF fleet (A5/f7). One of my relatives who is working in the Boeing Germany told me exactly the same thing (design flaws, aircraft construction, name of few).

We must understand that the aircraft is POORLY designed (I have heard the similar kind of vibe from even our airforce officers including those who went to the US on different programs and also participated in Red Flag exercises).

Its a general perspective. Now why I don't like, these are some of the points which enhancing my hate for this aircraft but one thing which I believe, not every aircraft become Lockheed F16 and Mig29. These two aircraft designs are a MAJOR factor of its selling point and still rule among all from the past 5 decades. JF17 is pathetically, poorly designed aircraft seems like 70s look and feel and rest the last nail in the coffin "built quality". Not everything is avionics, the US has spent billions of dollars on the designs program of F22, B52, B2, etc same did by the Russians.

The counter-argument against my perspective is pure bullshit and trust me I never respond nor interested if the person doesn't understand the importance of "DESIGN". Usually the counter-response on my criticism on JF17 "If the aircraft serve the purpose......." that's enough for us. We are stuck in this kind of mind-set the reason we are FAILED to sell this aircraft even though there is NO SUCH COMPETITOR at this time of JF17 in the market at this price.

Look at the B version. More like a trainee aircraft (pregnant). No one uses such kind of bulky dual seater shit against the 4.5 5 Gen in the combat theater. The aircraft looks like someone modifying old vintage shit dinky. Imagine, you're extended Suzuki Dabba just to make something like limouse, eek din bas hojani hey ismay 2 X kay baad 4 X ka missile rack laga kar akar kitna modify karlengay isko? lol.

I knew since DAY ONE that DG ISPR lying with the public. Actually he intentionally did that. We are desperate to sell this aircraft that was the core reason of his lies. Guess what, we slowly gradually changed our stance from JF17 to F16 story (a reference to 27 Feb event). You hardly see any prominent information or ref of Jf17 even in the PAF museum about Op Swift. Anyway, the point I'm making is, we have to show and built something which serves the FUTURE. This construction quality and the design won't work in the modern world. You can integrate avionics but aerodynamics, shape, built quality, frame matters a lot.

@MastanKhan

We have a general tendency not to be happy with ourselves and think what we produce is inferior to others. There are reasons for such thinking and possibly legitimate ones as we (as a Nation) are behind in education, financial and technical resources as compared to the others (we are speaking off), yet it doesn't automatically mean that everything we produce has to be behind. Being behind in resources in our case just means we will focus on a few aspects, but whatever we work on will become as good as much time, attention and energy would go into it. JF-17 is a battle success, an export success, a versioning success and a learning success. We are so proud and Thank Almighty for the outcome.

Everything can be improved. Apple produces the best phone this year and then produces a still better phone next year. Likewise, our definition of success should be that we are becoming better every-year producing better outcomes and outputs - but please do not discredit our achievements because we are behind someone else's.

Allah Kareem says there is a knowledgeable person ahead of every other knowledgeable person. If you imagine we are ahead of a few Nations and we are behind a few Nations. We are thankful to Allah that we are ahead, and we are thankful to Allah that we are progressing ahead every year more. If there is a sense of competition in us, it should be competing with our yesterday and not someone else's today.
 
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“From where you got the idea that Turkey is more advanced than us in aircraft building---your information is incorrect---.”

Are you really asking this question?

Are we comparing ourself with Turkish aviation industry? I will let Turkish member answer this question.
Any Turkish member would like answer?


“One would be a fool to build an aircraft 4 or 5th gen by themselves---..”

France build Mirage2000 and Rafale by itself and both can be considered 4 generations fighters. France must be a foolish nation.

Hi,

There is US---there is UK---there is germany---there is Italy---there is so Korea---there is Japan---there is sweden---there is china ( started with israel and no with pakistan)---there is even russia ( a 5th gen with India ) for a long time---.

And what fighter aircraft has Trukey produced so far---?
 
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Hi,

There is US---there is UK---there is germany---there is Italy---there is so Korea---there is Japan---there is sweden---there is china ( started with israel and no with pakistan)---there is even russia ( a 5th gen with India ) for a long time---.

And what fighter aircraft has Trukey produced so far---?

With all due respect, I really wanted Turkish member to answer this question.

Just look at the link below.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Aerospace_Industries

Just because we are assembling JF-17 doesn’t mean our aviation industry is Superior to Turkish aviation industry. Even in 20 years we won’t be able to catch up to Turkish aviation industry.
In 20 years, Turkey will be competing with Italy, Spain and Russia.
 
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Hi,

Look at the americans bragging about their product---. They make the shittiest of cars and they still sell them and these same american buy them and they know that they are buying sh-it---but as this is their own sh-it---they love it.

Sit in a new dodge chrysler product---and you can feel the metal frame in the seat---.

Your Boeing relative telling you about "design flaw"---did you laugh at his face and told him to shut his frigging mouth---after the 737 fiasco---he dare not talk about design flaws---. They put an engine in the wrong place of the aircraft and then they came up with computers to control it and they failed and they failed and they will fail---.

And look at the american---the modified B52 that they have come up with---Big Ugly Fat Fuckr---BUFF---what a marvelous job they have done with an upgrade---.

Fat or not---thick at the waist or not---if it flies good---if it flies high---if it has a very good fire control radar and EW package and it has excellent BVR missiles---90% of the job is done---.

Haters will hate---naysayers will say nay---.

Now for quality cntrol---that is because pakistanis have a very cheap mindset and being cheap---it will reflect n their product---.

When you have people in shalwar Kamiz in machine area---when you have paint peeling off the floor of the aircraft hangar---when senior officers are riding expensive cars and SUV's---there will always be issues---.

So you're actually saying that if they did design blunder then it's good we should do the same? basically justifying our mistake by giving an example of others' mistakes..
 
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I think any future block of JF-17 should be build with the help of Turkey. I think China want to sell J-10C to Pakistan that’s why they dragging the development work on JF-17 block 3.
 
.
With all due respect, I really wanted Turkish member to answer this question.

Just look at the link below.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Aerospace_Industries

Just because we are assembling JF-17 doesn’t mean our aviation industry is Superior to Turkish aviation industry. Even in 20 years we won’t be able to catch up to Turkish aviation industry.
In 20 years, Turkey will be competing with Italy, Spain and Russia.
Bro you don't getting it, he misunderstood your first post that you're talking about turkey has more advance Aviation industries then USA
 
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I am a product designer and produce products frequently... which sometimes are good and at other times, not so good. Here are some golden principles I collected over the year and live my life on;
  • Produce a product so you could design it.
  • It's ok to be wrong, it's ok to make mistakes.
  • Permit yourself to be wrong 144 times. Save yourself from your criticism before trying this much.
  • Dua karta jaa, chalta jaa. (Keep praying, keep walking.)
Its ok to be weak, its ok to produce bad JF-17 (if you think it is bad), its ok to be wrong, it's ok to make mistakes - but keep praying, keep working, keep on doing, keep on marching. The only obligation upon us is obligation of trying... success is nevertheless a gift given to you by Allah - and it is never in your hand.

It's OK to make design blunders as it is part of your learning process. How else would you design something great if you didn't produce not-great products as well? What matters is that you keep working on your blunders. And we are doing it Alhamdolillah. Have faith.
 
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Bro you don't getting it, he misunderstood your first post that you're talking about turkey has more advance Aviation industries then USA

Maybe... I was talking about Pakistani aviation industry. We are lazy people, Turkish are hard working people that’s why they are far ahead of Pakistan. 15 years of development work on JF-17 and we are still completely dependent on Chinese.
Chinese are like Gujrati people, they have business mentality, they don’t do anything without any benefit.

Pakistan missed many opportunities.... but we still not too
Late. We need to diversify and work with different countries. Finally now we are thinking that putting all our eggs in the same basket is not the right decisions.
 
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I think any future block of JF-17 should be build with the help of Turkey. I think China want to sell J-10C to Pakistan that’s why they dragging the development work on JF-17 block 3.
No China offer us J-10 in past and recently C for Pakistan but Pakistan is not convince to buy J-10C, in block-3 there are many system of block-3, so Pakistan thinks there no need for buying J-10 and block-3 is almost on the par with J-10C with exception of range and payloads

Maybe... I was talking about Pakistani aviation industry. We are lazy people, Turkish are hard working people that’s why they are far ahead of Pakistan. 15 years of development work on JF-17 and we are still completely dependent on Chinese.
Finally now we are thinking that putting all our eggs in the same basket is not the right decisions. Chinese are like Gujrati people, they have business mentality, they don’t do anything without any benefit.
oh bhai, there political and corruption in our roots and we still have not any visionary leader, Turkey are untied and we are divided,and by the way who wants to give you their latest tech without $$$$, MORE MONEY HAVE A LOTS OF HONEY
 
.
Brother in today's world, quality matters over quantity. Look at the construction of the aircraft. Trust me, no one buys this. I met one of the USAF officers last year. He told me that he thoroughly inspects with his clan. He told me exactly the same thing that boy quality always matters when you go International in today's world. The aircraft has many issues, third-party engine including some aerodynamics (which was interesting), despite all, though the aircraft seems somehow competent again "Somehow" capable to defend the skies against the 3.5 Gen fighters but if you're expecting that your aircraft gonna get order (order doesn't someone rent it out or put order of 2 3 aircraft i.e, Nigeria, Myanmar etc), you have to be very careful in terms of construction quality. The one built-in "China" has better quality as compare to this one (UAE Air show) which is built-in Pakistan. There are many complications because of global power politics, aircraft quality & capability, engine performance and the top of it, military hardware and marketing is indeed a tough job in today's competitive market. This aircraft might take 2+ more decades or even more to get some reasonable older else seems like your airforce core focus was to accommodate replacements (Trust me he doesn't even know that the aircraft was an actual replacement of our 70% of AF fleet (A5/f7). One of my relatives who is working in the Boeing Germany told me exactly the same thing (design flaws, aircraft construction, name of few).

We must understand that the aircraft is POORLY designed (I have heard the similar kind of vibe from even our airforce officers including those who went to the US on different programs and also participated in Red Flag exercises).

Its a general perspective. Now why I don't like, these are some of the points which enhancing my hate for this aircraft but one thing which I believe, not every aircraft become Lockheed F16 and Mig29. These two aircraft designs are a MAJOR factor of its selling point and still rule among all from the past 5 decades. JF17 is pathetically, poorly designed aircraft seems like 70s look and feel and rest the last nail in the coffin "built quality". Not everything is avionics, the US has spent billions of dollars on the designs program of F22, B52, B2, etc same did by the Russians.

The counter-argument against my perspective is pure bullshit and trust me I never respond nor interested if the person doesn't understand the importance of "DESIGN". Usually the counter-response on my criticism on JF17 "If the aircraft serve the purpose......." that's enough for us. We are stuck in this kind of mind-set the reason we are FAILED to sell this aircraft even though there is NO SUCH COMPETITOR at this time of JF17 in the market at this price.

Look at the B version. More like a trainee aircraft (pregnant). No one uses such kind of bulky dual seater shit against the 4.5 5 Gen in the combat theater. The aircraft looks like someone modifying old vintage shit dinky. Imagine, you're extended Suzuki Dabba just to make something like limouse, eek din bas hojani hey ismay 2 X kay baad 4 X ka missile rack laga kar akar kitna modify karlengay isko? lol.

I knew since DAY ONE that DG ISPR lying with the public. Actually he intentionally did that. We are desperate to sell this aircraft that was the core reason of his lies. Guess what, we slowly gradually changed our stance from JF17 to F16 story (a reference to 27 Feb event). You hardly see any prominent information or ref of Jf17 even in the PAF museum about Op Swift. Anyway, the point I'm making is, we have to show and built something which serves the FUTURE. This construction quality and the design won't work in the modern world. You can integrate avionics but aerodynamics, shape, built quality, frame matters a lot.

@MastanKhan

Stealth,
Instead of ranting for half a page, plz point three (3) major design flaws that were pointed to you by these experts. This plane has now a decade and half under its belt. If these were such major flaws where weren’t they rectified till now would be the question.
 
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