JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Haris Ali2140]

For 72 Rafales, 75 Thunders

We can increase their numbers if need arrives.

 

[BATMAN]

jF-17 blk-3 with AESA will be the leading a/c of PAF, unless AESA F-16 make it's way to PAF.

 

[Quwa]

KG600/RKL700A ASPJ already integrated on the blk 2 and delivered. The specific version will be different.

The next step is probably AESA TRM based EW/ECM in both the aircraft (integrated) and in an optional pod. You can get AESA TRM for EW on the open market (some firms pitched it to the PAF at IDEAS), not a big deal. The big deal is seeing if we can develop a sensor fusion engine for 360 deg awareness.

 

[PakShaheen79]

The next step is probably AESA TRM based EW/ECM in both the aircraft (integrated) and in an optional pod. You can get AESA TRM for EW on the open market (some firms pitched it to the PAF at IDEAS), not a big deal. The big deal is seeing if we can develop a sensor fusion engine for 360 deg awareness.

Absolutely spot on!
27/2 engagement has proven this beyond any doubt that Spectrum warfare is next big thing. This is the reason, I believe, that US DOD has put EW Spectrum as 6th dimension of warfare after Land, Air, Sea, Cyber and Space.

 

[bananarepublic]

Absolutely spot on!
27/2 engagement has proven this beyond any doubt that Spectrum warfare is next big thing. This is the reason, I believe, that US DOD has put EW Spectrum as 6th dimension of warfare after Land, Air, Sea, Cyber and Space.

This is an interesting video warfare dimensions and how each dimension effect one another especially the interview given by the US armed forces general

 

[TOPGUN]

The question remains will our JF-17 Blk 3 be a match for the iaf Rafales ?

 

[Dazzler]

The next step is probably AESA TRM based EW/ECM in both the aircraft (integrated) and in an optional pod. You can get AESA TRM for EW on the open market (some firms pitched it to the PAF at IDEAS), not a big deal. The big deal is seeing if we can develop a sensor fusion engine for 360 deg awareness.

Have you heard about indigenous EW solutions?

 

[Shane]

The question remains will our JF-17 Blk 3 be a match for the iaf Rafales ?

Well, if and it is a tricky if but still doable with some cooperation.

So if PAF can neutralize SPECTRA then PL15 can out range Meteor in BVR engagement.

Here is a relevant excerpt of an article in National Interest on PL15:

"The PL-15 is a long range air-to-air missile slated to enter service in 2018. Outfitted with an active electronically scanned radar and featuring a reported maximum range of up to 300 km, the PL-15’s impressive specifications place it in the ranks of the top air-to-air missiles along with the European Meteor missile and Russian K-37M.

The PL-15’s effective range in actual aerial engagements is certain to be lower than the maximum range 300 km, but is nonetheless much higher than its American AIM-120 AMRAAM counterpart’s estimated 180 km or less. American general Herbert Carlisle voiced serious concerns in 2015 when the development of the PL-15 entered the public knowledge: “Look at our adversaries and what they’re developing, things like the PL-15 and the range of that weapon.” General Carlisle raised the same issue in an interview with FlightGlobal: “The PL-15 and the range of that missile, we’ve got to be able to out-stick that missile.”

 

[Trango Towers]

Thanks for detailed response.

However, I would still say that we are loosing that minimum deterrence capability fast with the induction of newer platforms in India i.e Rafale and s400. And for that, medium category fighters are required in the short term. All of this is just to maintain that minimum detrrence. Being at par with India is a dream that is far from being realized and nobody is chasing that dream either.

JF-17 program will progress and project Azm will kick in as well in the future but a dire need for a stop gap solution cannot be forgotten. On that we see no visible activity from the PAF.

I think you are very much mistaken.
Problem is most of us think that just because jf17 is a light weight fighter it's not capable. Infact this platform has developed so much that it can take on the best out there. The onboard systems allow it to compete with the best in PAF inventory. You think Pakistan hasnt flown these against our f16 or chinese variant of the su27 or saudi f15s. Trust me it's been tested to its flight envelope max. Now with Asea air to air refuelling AWACS and day night fight ability with helmet mounted queuing systems and missiles with massive ranges this little highly agile fighter along with PAF tactics will be a handful. Indians may have the beasts but it's the man with the knowledge of his weapons and excellent tactics that always prevails.

 

[Quwa]

Have you heard about indigenous EW solutions?

None in the sense of being turnkey local. We don't have fabtech or semiconductors for that. But we do have the option of buying COTS TRMs and in turn using that to make a custom solution with our own programming, threat libraries, etc.

 

[BATMAN]

Have you heard about indigenous EW solutions?

judging by the current technological level of Pakistani engineers & PAC capabilities and PAF co-operation, in house development of EW solutions is very very likely.

 

[Blueskiez 2001]

This is an interesting video warfare dimensions and how each dimension effect one another especially the interview given by the US armed forces general

very very interesting video...

 

[FuturePAF]

The next step is probably AESA TRM based EW/ECM in both the aircraft (integrated) and in an optional pod. You can get AESA TRM for EW on the open market (some firms pitched it to the PAF at IDEAS), not a big deal. The big deal is seeing if we can develop a sensor fusion engine for 360 deg awareness.

The PAF should consider buying Leonardo or Turkey's AESA option for the 28 planned JF-17Bs and making them into Growler planes. The Chinese radar will be on the Block IIIs so a different AESA suite could provide different waveforms to jam enemy forces.


The Key is ToT. Suppliers will have to be willing to transfer their tech and their software; waveform algorithms.

 

[Dazzler]

None in the sense of being turnkey local. We don't have fabtech or semiconductors for that. But we do have the option of buying COTS TRMs and in turn using that to make a custom solution with our own programming, threat libraries, etc.

What if i say we have developed our own EW pods and those are being tested on thunder since three years?

I recall all block 2/2Bs were fitted with improved environment control systems right? Part of that had to do with providing cooling for LKF-601E? Interesting read...

An AVIC official says the airflow for cooling the radar comes from the aircraft’s environmental control system. This apparently obviates the need for drag-inducing ducting around the aircraft’s nose.

The radar operates in the X band and weighs 145kg. It can detect a fighter-sized target at 170km. It can track 15 targets simultaneously and engage four at the same time. It also has a surface search function. AVIC claims that it has a “strong anti-jamming capability.”

An official with the JF-17 programme said that different AESA options for the JF-17 are being weighed, with no decisions as yet.

 

[Aasimkhan]

Well, if and it is a tricky if but still doable with some cooperation.

So if PAF can neutralize SPECTRA then PL15 can out range Meteor in BVR engagement.

Here is a relevant excerpt of an article in National Interest on PL15:

"The PL-15 is a long range air-to-air missile slated to enter service in 2018. Outfitted with an active electronically scanned radar and featuring a reported maximum range of up to 300 km, the PL-15’s impressive specifications place it in the ranks of the top air-to-air missiles along with the European Meteor missile and Russian K-37M.

The PL-15’s effective range in actual aerial engagements is certain to be lower than the maximum range 300 km, but is nonetheless much higher than its American AIM-120 AMRAAM counterpart’s estimated 180 km or less. American general Herbert Carlisle voiced serious concerns in 2015 when the development of the PL-15 entered the public knowledge: “Look at our adversaries and what they’re developing, things like the PL-15 and the range of that weapon.” General Carlisle raised the same issue in an interview with FlightGlobal: “The PL-15 and the range of that missile, we’ve got to be able to out-stick that missile.”[/QUOTE
I think this was said about PL21 which is an even longer range missile than PL12 and PL15. PL21 will have a ramjet motor.