Jawan dies, 4 others injured in Pak shelling in Naushera

[Areesh]

This is we proved that you are sending tangos into Kashmir and disrupt the local system, because this is feasible to you.

And India is hunting the launchpads from where these tangos are being launched by Pakistan army, because whole world is against tangos and global war on terror is actually now started in Pakistan. There fore deniability is the only option at Islamabad's disposal as Islamabad does not want to be seen as terrorist state!

Trouble in Kashmir is because of you. It is you who is shooting pellet guns into the eyes of Kashmiris not us. So it is you who is responsible for trouble and discontent in Kashmir.

W are doing what we should do. Defending against Indian aggression and giving a befitting response.

 

[ShoutB]

Trouble in Kashmir is because of you. It is you who is shooting pellet guns into the eyes of Kashmiris not us. So it is you who is responsible for trouble and discontent in Kashmir.

W are doing what we should do. Defending against Indian aggression and giving a befitting response

as I will repeat again ..

Pakistan army has tendency to target Indian soldier where as Indian soldier are only targeting terrorists inside Pakistan territory. And in this process, Pakistan army is protecting the terrorists , most probably!

 

[ravi gupta]

Whatever. WE would do whatever is needed and whatever is feasible for us.



I accept you tried to be an aggressor and got a good beating for that.



That's what I said. No source of this forum is credible enough to comment on recent situation or capabilities of Pak army.

Your comments should be base on official sources and not some random guy on this forum.

We accept that to defend our countrymen from cross border terrorism,India army did surgical strike not against Pakistan army but on terrorist launch pads and killed around 40 terrorist.
Why your army is rattled by the way????

 

[MadDog]

We accept that to defend our countrymen from cross border terrorism,India army did surgical strike not against Pakistan army but on terrorist launch pads and killed around 40 terrorist.
Why your army is rattled by the way????

Good for you, keep believing it, good for us, this has embarrassed you internationally when your own MLA's declared it a drama to placate public opinion and when international media visited the sites, interviewed the local people. Your society anyways has appetite for mythological fantasies. It is good you believe in it, a deluded adversary is always better than a smart one.

 

[TheObserver]

This shows you're a layman who has no idea about how a military operates and what is the concept of COIN or what is low intensity conflict or any thing about the presently prevelent assymetric threat environment. I will answer your querry in parts.

1) Military units are rotated after certain time , not kept at a single place throughout their lives, it is stupidity to even assume that. They are rotated not only to LOC but other parts throughout the country and viceversa. This is common in every military including yours.

2) If troops are inexperienced why do Jordanians, Saudis, Iraqis, Nigerians and Srilankans send their troops to be trained at our Counter Terrorism Training centers. Or why do Americans, Russians or the Chinese train with us. The concept is to share the experience of real time warfare , since these countries experience similar situations i.e asymmetric threats.

3) Now lets see if Zarb-e-Azb qualifies which according to you it doesn't. Right across the border in Afghanistan , 28 country coalition of one of the world's most powerful militaries have failed to counter the growing insurgency since last 17 years. If assymetric warfare wasn't considered a serious threat in today's environment then Americans would have won in Afghanistan, there would have been no IS in Iraq or Syria and Russians and Americans wouldn't have been fighting in Middle East. These wars have costed thousands of lives for militaries of great powers and are the biggest challenge for today's world. Pakistan has defeated and pushed Uzbeks (IMU), TTP (part of which merged into IS in Afghanistan) across the border, thereby ensuring a full throttled Control, Hold and Build strategy. It is the only country in the region perhaps other than Srilanka to have successfully defeated an insurgency. Your view of today's threat environment is absolutely naive. As a student of International relations I can tell you, had you been one, the way you dismissed the importance and experience of Post-Modern warfare, you would fail in the most basic test.

4) Human life no matter of which country is important. As I said again, in statecraft and the games nations play with each other , militaries and soliders are used as instruments of power projection. It is realpolitik which governs the relations, morality takes a back seat , these are different from induvidual one on one relations. While my sympathies are with families of those who lost their lives, national interests tend to be supreme. For that Pakistan resorts to reciprocity principle and that is what we are seeing at LOC.

1. Absolutely agrees to rotation of troops and is required. But nobody deploys there soldiers from one front to another straight away.
2. Gentlemen, there is great deal of difference between battle and COIN operations and that is what I have been saying. On LoC you are not running COIN operations so kindly stop the rhetoric of battle hardened troops. Russians, Americans and Chinese does military exercises with your forces not training.
3. Pakistan Army is not fighting on foreign lands just like those coalition army is fighting. For God's sake you are fighting in your land so stop comparing with coalition forces. On the contrary, fortunately for Pakistan's army, it is due to coalition forces Pakistan army has been able to run Zarb-e-Azb as it is being run today. Just imagine if they had their supply lines open as it was for Talibs against Russia and afterwards, your forces would be having really sleepless nights and loss of territory also.
4. Agree to that point of yours.

 

[ravi gupta]

Good for you, keep believing it, good for us, this has embarrassed you internationally when your own MLA's declared it a drama to placate public opinion and when international media visited the sites, interviewed the local people. Your society anyways has appetite for mythological fantasies. It is good you believe in it, a deluded adversary is always better than a smart one.

Keep denying it,its very good for us,and we also know now future course of action,whatever we will do you will deny us.it suits us.
Our some MLA are no better then your own politician,you know better,

 

[Areesh]

We accept that to defend our countrymen from cross border terrorism,India army did surgical strike not against Pakistan army but on terrorist launch pads and killed around 40 terrorist.
Why your army is rattled by the way????

There is no proof of death of even a single terrorist let alone 40 of them.

You have all the right to defend yourself but with actual action and not with fake theatrics like you did on Sep 29.

My army is fine. It is not his soldiers that are getting sniped and beheaded on LOC.

as I will repeat again ..

Pakistan army has tendency to target Indian soldier where as Indian soldier are only targeting terrorists inside Pakistan territory. And in this process, Pakistan army is protecting the terrorists , most probably!

You can repeat this BS 10000 times.

The thing is army is doing its job that is to respond to any act of aggression by India.

 

[ShoutB]

You can repeat this BS 10000 times.

The thing is army is doing its job that is to respond to any act of aggression by India.

Even if that aggression is against terrorism breeding on Pakistan soil?

 

[Areesh]

Even if that aggression is against terrorism breeding on Pakistan soil?

There are no terrorists. We are just defending against any stupid act of aggression by India.

 

[ShoutB]

There are no terrorists. We are just defending against any stupid act of aggression by India.

who is hafiz sayed? And similar you said during OBL time but caught red handed ..

Pakistan is not doing enough on terrorism hence India will have to eliminate terrorism in Pakistan. But Unfortunately Pakistani army are targeting Indian soldier who are fighting war on terrorism!

 

[MadDog]

1. Absolutely agrees to rotation of troops and is required. But nobody deploys there soldiers from one front to another straight away.
2. Gentlemen, there is great deal of difference between battle and COIN operations and that is what I have been saying. On LoC you are not running COIN operations so kindly stop the rhetoric of battle hardened troops. Russians, Americans and Chinese does military exercises with your forces not training.
3. Pakistan Army is not fighting on foreign lands just like those coalition army is fighting. For God's sake you are fighting in your land so stop comparing with coalition forces. On the contrary, fortunately for Pakistan's army, it is due to coalition forces Pakistan army has been able to run Zarb-e-Azb as it is being run today. Just imagine if they had their supply lines open as it was for Talibs against Russia and afterwards, your forces would be having really sleepless nights and loss of territory also.
4. Agree to that point of yours.

1) Rotation of troops is done to hot and peaceful areas both just like any military, these units were already there when the current hostilities at LOC started in September.

2) Battlehardened means, they have realtime war experience, something which can't be explained here on this forum in detail. COIN operations in FATA or Afghanistan are ideal for this, skirmishes at LOC are nothing as compared to the intensity and pressure of conflict in FATA. This experience is valuable and its manifestations are visible.

3) As said before militaries from Iraq, Nigeria, SaudiArabia , Jordan and Srilanka get trained at counter terror training centers in Pakistan. Pakistan's National Counter Terrorism Training Center is one of the biggest in the region.
When militaries from China, US, Russia and Turkey hold exercises this means both sides share their experience and learning with each other.

4) Zarb-e-Azb's major operations have ended, there are no more military operations taking place. People are being brought back and reconstruction is taking place. It is the third phase of Clear, Hold and Build strategy being implemented.

5) Lets take the point you said about Americans being foreigners and Pakistanis being sons of the soil that is why Pakistan was able to push the Talibs out into Afghanistan. Srilankans were sons of soil too, it took them nearly 25 years to clear. Syrians , Iraqis , Libyans , Yemenis are all sons of soil and local troops which are fighting IS and affiliated groups in their respective countries yet they haven't been able to clear these militant syndicates. Coalition troops despite infinite resources have failed in Afghanistan, they failed in Iraq and Syria. There is every reason to compare FATA's situation with Afghanistan since the terrain is similar and threats (asymmetric) are also same.

To give you an idea, here is an episode of Mahaaz by Wajahat, he visited the forward posts at LOC, right before the flare up of hostilities.

 

[TheObserver]

5) Lets take the point you said about Americans being foreigners and Pakistanis being sons of the soil that is why Pakistan was able to push the Talibs out into Afghanistan. Srilankans were sons of soil too, it took them nearly 25 years to clear. Syrians , Iraqis , Libyans , Yemenis are all sons of soil and local troops which are fighting IS and affiliated groups in their respective countries yet they haven't been able to clear these militant syndicates. Coalition troops despite infinite resources have failed in Afghanistan, they failed in Iraq and Syria. There is every reason to compare FATA's situation with Afghanistan since the terrain is similar and threats (asymmetric) are also same.

To give you an idea, here is an episode of Mahaaz by Wajahat, he visited the forward posts at LOC, right before the flare up of hostilities.

When the supply lines of LTTE was cut Sri Lanka finished them in few weeks of time. Coalition forces had already cut the supply lines of the so called groups. If they had an active supply lines Pakistan army would have been having nightmares.
Whether you have asymmetric or symmetric warfare a continuous supply line is always a necessity. IS supply lines could not be cut due various factions and former baathist aligning with them furthermore it was complicated with Kurds whom the Turkey doesn't trust. If Turkey trusted the Kurds and American didn't wanted to bring their style of Democracy the ISIS would have been fried up in hell hole in few days.
Coalition forces could not cut their supply lines originating in Pakistan that's why they resorted to Drone attacks on select designate targets.

 

[4GTejasBVR]

Whatever India would do would get appropriate response. Just like this time.

That will be reciprocated by one step ahead of the escalation ladder. The whole ceasefire agreement was brought by Pakistan in 2003 with help of US pressuring India to agree. Because once firing escalate to 155 mm Howitzers India will inflict heavy damage and Pakistan won't have enough stomach. Insteed a full blown war will be more beneficial in terms of morale for PA. This time India has shown enough restrain after surgical operation. But Pakistan Army has to do something in return to keep many in Ur country happy. So we saw many unprovoked firing not only on our posts and later targeted our people near border area. As damage you managed to inflict was very minimal on our BSF (terms of retaliation to each violation by BSF and IA)

You may ask why to target civilians?
Because to put pressure on Indian Government to start talks with Pakistan once again. So we quickly cleared our people from these area. Started using Heavy weapons. The same escalation ladder before Cease fire agreement.

Point of view : See if you want to keep blaming India and keep violations of Ceasefire agreements then Ur welcome. We won't respect this agreement which is already breached. We don't gain with small to medium arms. We have heavy fire power over powering any retaliation you have bring. Either mend your ways be responsible for the peace between us. Or we will take this escalation to any level a step higher than your response.

This is the real issue. Kid if you don't trust me have some talk with real army veterans in Ur Country or in this group. If war is what you wanted I don't think IA will back off. It too has great respect among our people. Even if Govt of the day don't want war. We will respect that. But if things not change we know how to do some tricks at the borders for which Govt will have respond. This happened even in UPA years. And now you know who is ruling India and Indian Armed forces. His name is Narendra Modi

 

[Areesh]

who is hafiz sayed? And similar you said during OBL time but caught red handed ..

Pakistan is not doing enough on terrorism hence India will have to eliminate terrorism in Pakistan. But Unfortunately Pakistani army are targeting Indian soldier who are fighting war on terrorism!

Hafiz Saeed is your worst paranoia. And OBL chapter is closed for closed. Stop hiding in every other post behind it.

Indian soldiers are dying for stupid policies of its state. You cross LOC or fire towards us you get killed. The rules are simple.

 

[ShoutB]

Hafiz Saeed is your worst paranoia. And OBL chapter is closed for closed. Stop hiding in every other post behind it.

Indian soldiers are dying for stupid policies of its state. You cross LOC or fire towards us you get killed. The rules are simple.

But you said there were no surgical strikes that's official statement from pak army. And you were also agreeing it. now you are targeting our soldiers because we crossed LOC?

Man don't be a pendulum!