Jawan dies, 4 others injured in Pak shelling in Naushera

[SDS1]

They're forgetting the SH-1 Howitzer as well. Never mind the Panter.

Do we have 90 or 36 of these? Last time I heard, 36 were delivered and the rest were going to be produced in Pakistan. Correct me if I am wrong.
View attachment 351279

they wont able to move between mountains buddy or cant be placed in remote locations, they good effective for plain deployment

 

[Signalian]

They're forgetting the SH-1 Howitzer as well. Never mind the Panter.

Do we have 90 or 36 of these? Last time I heard, 36 were delivered and the rest were going to be produced in Pakistan. Correct me if I am wrong.
View attachment 351279

Different sources suggest different numbers for SH-1. Most say its 90 now.

SH-1 is part of armoured and mechanised forces. Its doubtful that it will be used alongside LOC borders. However deployments do vary upon circumstances.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

they wont able to move between mountains buddy or cant be placed in remote locations, they good effective for plain deployment

I'm talking about artillery in general. These will be probably be used in places like the Rajasthan desert.

 

[MadDog]

When the supply lines of LTTE was cut Sri Lanka finished them in few weeks of time. Coalition forces had already cut the supply lines of the so called groups. If they had an active supply lines Pakistan army would have been having nightmares.
Whether you have asymmetric or symmetric warfare a continuous supply line is always a necessity. IS supply lines could not be cut due various factions and former baathist aligning with them furthermore it was complicated with Kurds whom the Turkey doesn't trust. If Turkey trusted the Kurds and American didn't wanted to bring their style of Democracy the ISIS would have been fried up in hell hole in few days.
Coalition forces could not cut their supply lines originating in Pakistan that's why they resorted to Drone attacks on select designate targets.

TTP supply lines were intact, they had strongholds in Nangarhar (nexus with IS), Kunar and Nuristan. Still they were routed out of Waziristan.
Agreed to the point that Afghan Talibs had elements in North Waziristan which supported them, but after Zarb-e-Azb drone attacks ended as area was cleared. Now almost 60% of Afghanistan is under Taliban influence, Americans have ceased unilateral operations against Afghan Taliban, Putin met Taliban chief secretly in Dushanbe to talk about countering IS, do you really think they need supply lines of Pakistan when they literally control majority of Afghanistan.

First of all raids were common but but anti terrorist operations were not. Neither no one claimed to have it done before. But for the first time India did it and killed terrorists on your soil and announced it!

But one thing is proven now! Your soldiers target our soldiers while our soldiers target only terrorist on your soil. Because Pakistan army has bad tendency to protect terrorists while targeting Indian soldiers on patrol.

Now, even if India crosses border and pound terrorist Inside your territory you will not be in a condition to accept it. Hence you have given us one more option to cross the LOC/IB officially carry out strikes and return.

And lastly coming to exercise. It was done to test the preparedness to scramble them from highways. Flying over Islamabad 2-3 times and throwing flares over civilian area by flying low is not exercise but a message.We are not some ch*tiyas who will have it taken as exercise, that was not at all a part of exercise. Any one who has even a bi of idea , will understand why it was done.


you recently upgraded your M109 to A5 most probably 31 cal. which has a range of 33000m. Bofors is already functioning that past 10 years more over, Indian ary Dhanus V1 happens to be tested with 25% better performance wrt Bofors. Now India is working on version2

As stated before, cross border raids are common, we have done numerous. The moment you try to do it, we will reciprocate. Meanwhile your funny media, explaining how Pakistani troops are crossing the border and attacking your troops regularly. Don't know if BAT exists but the pain is plainly visible on your side, its from last week, coincides with news of sniper kills and cross border raids. As I mentioned Pakistan controls the momentum of fight at LOC, the empty sabre rattling by your fellows on this forum might boost fake nationalistic pride for a few moments , but reality on ground is different.

As far as self propelled artillery is concerned Pakistan has a clear qualitative and quantitative edge, it is naive of you to even debate on this thread, it has been debated on this forum on numerous threads and the data is available online.

 

[4GTejasBVR]

Consistency isnt an issue any more, POF is churning out ammunition on daily basis. The war on western front is using up stockpiled ammunition of 105mm and 122mm guns.

Dude think this. How much u want to spend on daily basis. I mean India could shell hell lots of shells at you for more months. How much can you afford? It cost money, man power etc. We have don't used all our artillery guns in kargil while you all what have. Yet what was the outcome. . . To validate my point go read some good article on ceasefire agreement, kargil wars etc. India already stared mass procurement from day -1 of Modi government. And we are preparing another batch worth one billion in fast track procurement basis keeping China in mind. Which is totally about in ports. We too churn out lots of shells ammunition. Do u see my point. I am fed up with mouth feeding of basic informations. I think we Indians are more aware of defence issues than whole lots of Pakistanis

 

[MadDog]

So you haven't have stockpiles of 155mm ammunition ??

Pakistan doesn't face any shortage, POF has been producing the ammo in huge quantities and fulfilled the needs of operations and reserves are more than required. Pakistan's military and related military industrial complexes have experienced real wartime scenario, adapted and can handle the intensity of the situation and any kind of pressure, thus they are ready for any eventuality just the way the soldiers are battlehardened with real war experience from western front.
Meanwhile on your side, the situation doesn't seem so bright, as stated numerous times, your ammo would not even last 20 days of intense fighting. Modi's right wing govt should focus on these weaknesses before chest thumping against Pakistan.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...itary-running-out-of-ammunition-10253351.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...for-only-20-days-CAG/articleshow/47209011.cms

 

[SDS1]

As stated before, cross border raids are common, we have done numerous. The moment you try to do it, we will reciprocate. Meanwhile your funny media, explaining how Pakistani troops are crossing the border and attacking your troops regularly. Don't know if BAT exists but the pain is plainly visible on your side, its from last week, coincides with news of sniper kills and cross border raids. As I mentioned Pakistan controls the momentum of fight at LOC, the empty sabre rattling by your fellows on this forum might boost fake nationalistic pride for a few moments , but reality on ground is different.


As far as self propelled artillery is concerned Pakistan has a clear qualitative and quantitative edge, it is naive of you to even debate on this thread, it has been debated on this forum on numerous threads and the data is available online.

You even dont know your soldiers was present in kargil or not

Sir, care to tell your caliber / qty of your self propelled artillery ?

 

[atya]

Son I banged more pretty indian girls than you have had hot dinners, so let's leave the Quaid's daughter (an old lady by the way) out of this.

The new lighteweight Chinese howitzer is as advanced as the Yank one, how you like then apples. we will get loads, checkmate my little indian friend.

Brother, I have reported you for indecent comment. Women are human beings and it's about time you men give us respect.

 

[Signalian]

Dude think this. How much u want to spend on daily basis.

These are the kind of arguements that come up when lack of military knowledge is evident.

If you are talking about current scenario, then its mortar fire on LOC mostly which is damaging Indian posts. The Big guns are also used but when mortar is doing the job, then big guns are rested. Mortars are used for many reasons:

1. They have an adequate range of upto 5-6 km, though 2-3 km is an effective range.
2. Calibre is small, usually 81mm, so ammunition handling is easy. setting up is easy and can be fired from non-prepared positions if properly levelled.
3. Can be used by front line troops in forward posts.
4. Can be re-located easily after firing a few rounds.

The point is to get the job done. whether its done by mortar or howitzer, whether by 2-3 rounds or a dozen rounds. The feasibility report for taking out a target is NOT para-metered on "daily spending" of rounds but on:
1. Priority
2. Distance
3. Elevation
4. Terrain
5. Weather
6. Counter fire by enemy
7. LOS or NLOS (line of sight or non-line of sight)
and a few other factors. Calculating these helps in selecting the weapon type to be used.

When the weapon is chosen, a few factors again come in consideration.like:
1. Transporting of weapon to selected location.
2. Time taken to setup, fire and re-locate.
3. Number of troops involved.
4. The amount of explosive used in the shell/Round with respect to shell's over all weight.
5. Minimum number of rounds to achieve hit and impact.

For reference, 81mm shell is 4.5KG in weight and has an effective kill radius of 35 meters. 155mm shell is 43 KG and has an effective kill radius of upto 50 meters.
Kill zone and blast radius are different. Blast radius is obviously larger than kill zone.
Pakistan uses 130mm on LOC whose shell weight is 33 KG.

If there are ten Indian posts in coverage radius of a certain 130mm howitzer battery (6 Guns), do the maths and calculate the amount of rounds needed to render the posts useless and destroyed with less than 30 minutes of firing?

The range of Pakistani 130mm Gun is 27 Km.

Also calculate the same required to stop Indians from setting up new posts in place of destroyed posts?

You should get the answer to the meaning-less question you have asked me which i have highlighted.

I mean India could shell hell lots of shells at you for more months. How much can you afford?

Another babyish question void of any military know-how.

It cost money, man power etc. We have don't used all our artillery guns in kargil while you all what have. Yet what was the outcome. . . To validate my point go read some good article on ceasefire agreement, kargil wars etc.

If you want to discuss Kargil war and the usage of artillery in Kargil war then open a new thread.

Pakistan has different types of 105mm, 122mm, 130mm, 155mm and 203mm calibre guns in its arsenal and yet it only used a few types of guns in Kargil war. So most of the Artillery arsenal wasnt even used as it was deployed in all other sectors.

India already stared mass procurement from day -1 of Modi government. And we are preparing another batch worth one billion in fast track procurement basis keeping China in mind. Which is totally about in ports. We too churn out lots of shells ammunition.

No matter if Indian churns out million shells per day, it depends upon number of targets present and the correct weapon to take them out in minimum time with minimum rounds used.

Do u see my point. I am fed up with mouth feeding of basic informations.

I am already tired of reading your non-sense.

I think we Indians are more aware of defence issues than whole lots of Pakistanis

Thats the funniest thing i have read all day.....yes mate....your military knowledge is shining everywhere in your post...lol how much you can spent and willing to afford...lol

 

[Lotus_stalk]

Son I banged more pretty indian girls than you have had hot dinners, so let's leave the Quaid's daughter (an old lady by the way) out of this.

The new lighteweight Chinese howitzer is as advanced as the Yank one, how you like then apples. we will get loads, checkmate my little indian friend.

Your Quaide jinnah's daughter rejected future Pak PM post to marry an Indian in her youth, . If I bring out truth you won't be able to handle the truth... Probably I will get banned... I can furnish list of high profile Pakistani women marrying Indians for love... I would be happy to destroy your ego

It doesn't matter if Indias army is larger or not lol. Your army's pitiful and poor mobilisation skills will make that aspect negligible. Operation prakram is a good reminder. Pakistan army can mobilise faster and more efficiently than India naturally. The first few days of any conflict will result in relatively equal numbers. That being said our soldiers are more battle hardened and have greater expertise in battle then any Indian soldier. In short we have an advantage.

He's your army's superiority lol

Here is our army's superiority...

 

[MadDog]

You even dont know your soldiers was present in kargil or not

Sir, care to tell your caliber / qty of your self propelled artillery ?

Pak: 465 , India : 290. I believe its a mixture of American and Chinese systems, mostly they are M109 A2's (were upgraded to A5 standard) and A5's.

Your Quaide jinnah's daughter rejected future Pak PM post to marry an Indian in her youth, . If I bring out truth you won't be able to handle the truth... Probably I will get banned... I can furnish list of high profile Pakistani women marrying Indians for love... I would be happy to destroy your ego



Here is our army's superiority...

Again bringing 1971 into LOC skirmish discussion shows you lost the argument. 1971 was fought in a land 2000km away from mainland, with no supply routes. What happened to Americans in Vietnam insurgency, imagine on top of that another army invading. The reality remains that Pakistan controls momentum of the fight at LOC, the pain on your side is visible. As we debate here, your media is reporting almost daily cross border raids and sniper kills by Pakistani forces across LOC.
http://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...etting-indian-soldiers-along-loc-1533561.html

 

[hkdas]

You believe because it suits you being a bharati. And you have no logical reason either.

You never needed one too.

i believe it because it is more sensible to believe a special forces major's statement during a seminar in jordhan than your propaganda ISPR which is noting but a facing propaganda spreading media.

This report has been posted weeks ago. And has been discussed thoroughly.. Even this report rejects all your claims of surgical strike and also fails to find proof for death of any "militant". Nothing new has been rejected in this article.

You were banned in those days when we were discussing this report. Not our fault though. Now we would have to reject all your claims on this report.

What a useless hard work for us Pakistanis.

did even read that article once?? at least once!!?? pls.. spend some time to read it.
But they did cross the Line of Control (LoC), in some cases by more than a kilometre, to hit nearby Pakistani border posts.

Police officials on the Pakistani side privately concede that such a ground assault did occur in the Madarpur-Titrinot region of Poonch sector, west of Srinagar, where a Pakistani post was destroyed and one soldier killed.

In Leepa valley to the north, locals said that the Indians crossed the LoC and set up their guns on ridges directly overlooking the village of Mundakali. A Pakistani border post located at some distance east of the village was hit. Two other posts higher up in the mountains were also hit. At least four Pakistani soldiers were injured in the attack, which lasted from 05:00am until 8:00am, locals said.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-37702790

ofcource, you will denies every thing.. that is part of your culture... you denied your failure in 1965, in 1971.. you even denied your involvement in kargil war and even denied dead body of your fellow soldiers.. its very common in pakistan to deny causality reports, no one is expecting you to accept anything..

Try to knock some sense, the BBC reporter is using the Indian source which claimed to have spoken to some Policeman on Pakistani side, forget what does a common Policeman has to do with what's happening on a highly sensitive border situation, he was also dumb enough to disclose his rank and file. It's understandable that while your own MPs and MLAs are calling the whole episode a farce, you have no choice but to grasp onto straws to salvage some pride.
In the meantime PTI is reporting another Indian causality.

Indian soldier killed in Pakistani sniper fire in Machhil Sector of Kashmir, says Army.

read the article and then try to come up with something better... that BBC reporters is not saying anything based on indian media, but he is just checking whether indian media reports are right or wrong.. use your brain if u have any, why would a reporter in BBC have to report something which is based on indian media?? that pakistan reporter is saying that indian army did conducted operation in P.O K which is obviously denied by pakistan army. and he talked to locals in that area... read..... read,,,,,read..... read the article
pakistan army is hiding the fact that IA special forces just conducted operation in multiple places in P0K it is slap on the face of pakistan army, they si why pak army is denying it.

 

[Flash_Ninja]

Don't you smell something fishy then? I clearly do. Else no one acknowledges deaths and injuries left right day and night

The pattern being built is slow but sure to climax with a false flag. Sufficient ground work for a massive public demand to act will be on a high and another Parakaram will ensue if not Surgical v02

yes its funny how nearly all of these soldiers simply "succumb to injuries" in hospital, not many killed in the field, or surviving their injuries.

Most likely is they died weeks ago, and their bodies held frozen until an appropriate time when they can release information without too much public backlash.

 

[SDS1]

Pak: 465 , India : 290. I believe its a mixture of American and Chinese systems, mostly they are M109 A2's (were upgraded to A5 standard) and A5's.

My dear friend , these artillery are not used in mountain warfare , these are used on pains.... for Mountains tow artillery used , in which you are lacking

 

[ShoutB]

As stated before, cross border raids are common, we have done numerous. The moment you try to do it, we will reciprocate. Meanwhile your funny media, explaining how Pakistani troops are crossing the border and attacking your troops regularly.

There is a difference between cross border raid and surgical strike.

You are on a defence forum and you have no idea what surgical strike is?

A surgical strike is like an instrument which is used only to effect that particular area which has been declared cancerous, infected, or non social. It's like you do not touch the other part but just that.

And terrorist breeding ground are cancerous in Pakistan. Hence Indian army carried out surgical strike.

Where as cross border raids are basically post to post soldier to soldier.

But your Pakistan army has very bad tendency to feed milk to snakes , they protect terrorists but kill Indian soldiers.And this is what our media is trying to show.

My dear friend , these artillery are not used in mountain warfare , these are used on pains.... for Mountains tow artillery used , in which you are lacking

he does not know the difference..