Japan's Abe to change post-war constitution

[Khitan21]

You are right with Japanese war-time crimes. I never deny that. The Japanese paid a heftig price for their aggressions. Also I can understand that notably China and Korea still have bitter memories toward Japan.

But again it is not fair to judge Japan only on this way, only by its past. Not what it did and does after the WW II. Like a former criminal everyone deserves a second chance in life. I don´t believe that Japan repeats the past, even it refuses to say "sorry!", as per Chinese and Korean people.

I too also believe Japan deserves a second chance, but a criminal shouldn't kill a person then telling said person's children that killing him wasn't that big of a crime and then skips around and goes on his merry way - I could make that analogy more elaborate but that's not the point.

Like I said before on how Japan should apologize and make amends like Germany, if Japan does that then the hostilities in East Asia would drastically reduce because it is that bitter resentment that is exasperating the current disputes in East Asia even more like the Diaoyu/Senkaku; It's not so much about how much land either party controls, but rather it's about face, and you know how much East Asians care about face, I'm sure you know this history behind the islands.

Also, hypothetically, if China-Korea-Japan do reconcile their differences then I think the island dispute can be resolved in the future because if you look at these three countries today, they basically teach their children to hate each other: Chinese hating Japanese; Japanese hating Chinese; Koreans hating both etc. It's an endless cycle of hate until Japan breaks it which will subsequently lead the Chinese to end their hatred and likewise with the Koreans. If you think about it, the cause that is keeping these three nations apart is quite frankly absurd: unable to fully admit and apologize; unable to forgive; superiority complex; and of course a bunch of islands. It's also the same with China and Vietnam.

I believe peace can be achieved in East and South East Asia,but having to bring Japan to counter balance China in the SCS seems like it would bring more aggression and may even make the situation worse not just in the SCS but also in East Asia. Right now, whats hindering peace in East and South East Asia is a couple island disputes that are barely habitable if not at all.

I'm curious, if you have any hypothetical ideas on how China and Vietnam can resolve the SCS issue without screwing either parties because really other than the islands issue, I really do think China and Vietnam can be really close considering they are both communist countries and shared similar political history, in theory the two nation can be really close much like Pakistan and China.

 

[Aegis DDG]

I too also believe Japan deserves a second chance, but a criminal shouldn't kill a person then telling said person's children that killing him wasn't that big of a crime and then skips around and goes on his merry way - I could make that analogy more elaborate but that's not the point.

Like I said before on how Japan should apologize and make amends like Germany, if Japan does that then the hostilities in East Asia would drastically reduce because it is that bitter resentment that is exasperating the current disputes in East Asia even more like the Diaoyu/Senkaku; It's not so much about how much land either party controls, but rather it's about face, and you know how much East Asians care about face, I'm sure you know this history behind the islands.

Also, hypothetically, if China-Korea-Japan do reconcile their differences then I think the island dispute can be resolved in the future because if you look at these three countries today, they basically teach their children to hate each other: Chinese hating Japanese; Japanese hating Chinese; Koreans hating both etc. It's an endless cycle of hate until Japan breaks it which will subsequently lead the Chinese to end their hatred and likewise with the Koreans. If you think about it, the cause that is keeping these three nations apart is quite frankly absurd: unable to fully admit and apologize; unable to forgive; superiority complex; and of course a bunch of islands. It's also the same with China and Vietnam.

I believe peace can be achieved in East and South East Asia,but having to bring Japan to counter balance China in the SCS seems like it would bring more aggression and may even make the situation worse not just in the SCS but also in East Asia. Right now, whats hindering peace in East and South East Asia is a couple island disputes that are barely habitable if not at all.

I'm curious, if you have any hypothetical ideas on how China and Vietnam can resolve the SCS issue without screwing either parties because really other than the islands issue, I really do think China and Vietnam can be really close considering they are both communist countries and shared similar political history, in theory the two nation can be really close much like Pakistan and China.

I wish Japan, Korea, China and Vietnam put these disputes away and see themselves as related peoples. They are all the followers of Confucius who gave E.Asians the culture we now know. Respect for elders and illectuals, hard work and good study, politeness and orderly discipline are all Confucian traits that E.Asians share.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

No offence but the JMSDF is far superior to the littoral based PLA Navy. Is there an Chinese equavilant to the Atago DDG, or the new Akizuki Class destroyer? Type 052C/D lacks the level of Kongo DDG Anti-Ballistic capability. Japanese AIP submarines is superior to any PLAN submarines, nuclear or diesel. Chinese subs are famous for being noisey, even one of your nation's naval officers had admit this. The PLAAF has certain advantages over the JASDF, like more Fighter bombers and Air-Superiority Fighters. But F-2 multirole jets can inflict damage on PLAAF J-10A planes and the F-15J can take on J-11s, J-16 etc. But lets face it, the senkaku Islands conflict is practically an naval confrontation.

Nippon and Bonzi bought those toys from their American daddy, yet they can't build their own from the scratch without their American daddy.

The Type 052C has already the superior AESA radar compared to your inferior PESA radar Aegis, with the far more lethal anti-ship missile, it gonna sink the entire JMSDF quite handy with the support of DF-21D.

The Type 052D has the second generation AESA radar that is comparable to the Arleigh Burke Flight III.

Meanwhile the Type 052D is just an experimental model for the coming Type 055 DDG with perhaps 128 VLS units.

You Nippon and Bonzi can't play this arm race with China.

 

[Zero_wing]

No, it does not mean the contrary. China right now, with all its political and military power, could do much worse like Russia, Invading Georgia with a flimsy justification.

And also one battle is hardly an arse kicking, especially when the majority of the Chinese soldiers were tied up with fighting the main American forces and her allies, not to mention by the time the Chinese were fighting the Filipinos aided by the Americans, The Chinese had already repelled the UN from North Korea and if it weren't for stupid Mao, the Chinese would of stopped there. But basically, despite their supply line being really thin when the got near the 38th parallel, they were still able to push the combined UN forces further back. I would say the Americans are the one that suffered the most arse kicking for underestimating the Chinese military capability.

And regarding the SCS, There is a saying: "The strong do what they can, and weak suffer what they must" THAT is the honest painful truth and no amount of resentful sentiment can change that, the West applies this all the time in the Middle East and Africa and I don't see the people in the west suffering any disasters.

China can keep doing this so called bully tactic (which is apparently ruining the lives of overly Jingoistic Filipinos) but it's not going to change anything. Even if China does for some sodding reason invade and snatch away the islands from the Phillipine's hands, China won't face too much of a repercussion, because the whole world or at least all the major nations relies on China for economic growth: countries like Australia. At most China will get bad press for a year or two. It's like when Russia invaded Georgia, what disasters did Russia face? a couple bad press, nothing apocalyptic.

But considering all the disputes China has settled with Russia and her Central Asian neighbors, I won't be surprised if China will be able to find an alternative for the Spartly islands and settle for less; giving the Phillipines and others the favorable end of the deal.

Nice play on propaganda history sir very Chinese communist party issue! So the battle of Yultong bridge were The Filipino 10th BCT Attach yes to the 65th Infantry Regiment. but soon trapped at the Yultong area. Although the 10th BCT had lost all contacts with the outside world, the Filipinos held their position until the Chinese stopped their attacks on the morning of April 23. The 10th BCT's action at Yultong allowed the US 3rd Infantry Division to successfully withdraw from the battlefield. and were 12 killed 38 wounded 6 missing while china 500 killed 2 captured wow if that's not a great defeat for you guys i don't know what is! Other great @$$ kick you got from us is the Battle of Hill Eerie were we lost 250 casualties while you guys had 700 casualties. heck i there is a lot of battles filipinos kick your behinds Battle of the Imjin River, Operation Tomahawk, Battle of Heartbreak Ridge etc so please just don't really your just a country your not special no one is we are all equals here so play your part as responsible member of the world an since when does bullying been an equal advantage to the victim?

No, it does not mean the contrary. China right now, with all its political and military power, could do much worse like Russia, Invading Georgia with a flimsy justification.

And also one battle is hardly an arse kicking, especially when the majority of the Chinese soldiers were tied up with fighting the main American forces and her allies, not to mention by the time the Chinese were fighting the Filipinos aided by the Americans, The Chinese had already repelled the UN from North Korea and if it weren't for stupid Mao, the Chinese would of stopped there. But basically, despite their supply line being really thin when the got near the 38th parallel, they were still able to push the combined UN forces further back. I would say the Americans are the one that suffered the most arse kicking for underestimating the Chinese military capability.

And regarding the SCS, There is a saying: "The strong do what they can, and weak suffer what they must" THAT is the honest painful truth and no amount of resentful sentiment can change that, the West applies this all the time in the Middle East and Africa and I don't see the people in the west suffering any disasters.

China can keep doing this so called bully tactic (which is apparently ruining the lives of overly Jingoistic Filipinos) but it's not going to change anything. Even if China does for some sodding reason invade and snatch away the islands from the Phillipine's hands, China won't face too much of a repercussion, because the whole world or at least all the major nations relies on China for economic growth: countries like Australia. At most China will get bad press for a year or two. It's like when Russia invaded Georgia, what disasters did Russia face? a couple bad press, nothing apocalyptic.

But considering all the disputes China has settled with Russia and her Central Asian neighbors, I won't be surprised if China will be able to find an alternative for the Spartly islands and settle for less; giving the Phillipines and others the favorable end of the deal.

Nice play on propaganda history sir very Chinese communist party issue! So the battle of Yultong bridge were The Filipino 10th BCT Attach yes to the 65th Infantry Regiment. but soon trapped at the Yultong area. Although the 10th BCT had lost all contacts with the outside world, the Filipinos held their position until the Chinese stopped their attacks on the morning of April 23. The 10th BCT's action at Yultong allowed the US 3rd Infantry Division to successfully withdraw from the battlefield. and were 12 killed 38 wounded 6 missing while china 500 killed 2 captured wow if that's not a great defeat for you guys i don't know what is! Other great @$$ kick you got from us is the Battle of Hill Eerie were we lost 250 casualties while you guys had 700 casualties. heck i there is a lot of battles filipinos kick your behinds Battle of the Imjin River, Operation Tomahawk, Battle of Heartbreak Ridge etc so please just don't really your just a country your not special no one is we are all equals here so play your part as responsible member of the world an since when does bullying been an equal advantage to the victim?

 

[Aegis DDG]

Nippon and Bonzi bought those toys from their American daddy, yet they can't build their own from the scratch without their American daddy.

The Type 052C has already the superior AESA radar compared to your inferior PESA radar Aegis, with the far more lethal anti-ship missile, it gonna sink the entire JMSDF quite handy with the support of DF-21D.

The Type 052D has the second generation AESA radar that is comparable to the Arleigh Burke Flight III.

Meanwhile the Type 052D is just an experimental model for the coming Type 055 DDG with perhaps 128 VLS units.

You Nippon and Bonzi can't play this arm race with China.

- Akizuki, “Autumn Moon”, DD-115.
- Launched at the Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Shipyard in Nagasaki.
- First of five ships of the class to be built.
- To be commissioned in 2011, followed by the second ship in 2012, third and fourth to be commissioned in 2013.
- Displacement: 5,000 tons, fully loaded 6,800 tons.
- Maximum speed: 30 knots
- Electronics: OPS-20C search radar, OYQ-11 ACDS, FCS-3 AAW System, OQQ-22 ASW System, NOLQ-3D EW System
- Armament: 1 Mk. 45 5″ gun, 4 x 2 sets of Type 90 anti-ship missiles, 32 vertical launch silos for missiles (Enhanced Sea Sparrow, ASROC), 2 triple tube HOS-303 324mm torpedo mounts
- Aviation complement: 2 SH-60 helicopters
- Equipped with ATECS battle command system
- Meant as an escort for Hyuga and 22DDH helicopter destroyers and JMSDF BMD destroyers (Atago, Kongo-class)

 

[beijingwalker]

Nice play on propaganda history sir very Chinese communist party issue! So the battle of Yultong bridge were The Filipino 10th BCT Attach yes to the 65th Infantry Regiment. but soon trapped at the Yultong area. Although the 10th BCT had lost all contacts with the outside world, the Filipinos held their position until the Chinese stopped their attacks on the morning of April 23. The 10th BCT's action at Yultong allowed the US 3rd Infantry Division to successfully withdraw from the battlefield. and were 12 killed 38 wounded 6 missing while china 500 killed 2 captured wow if that's not a great defeat for you guys i don't know what is! Other great @$$ kick you got from us is the Battle of Hill Eerie were we lost 250 casualties while you guys had 700 casualties. heck i there is a lot of battles filipinos kick your behinds Battle of the Imjin River, Operation Tomahawk, Battle of Heartbreak Ridge etc so please just don't really your just a country your not special no one is we are all equals here so play your part as responsible member of the world an since when does bullying been an equal advantage to the victim?

What the hell are you talking about,Korean war?I don't know how big a contribution you did to the Korean war,can not be bigger than US I guess,spare all the small details,the end fact of the war is we started the fight right next to our border and we ended it half way through Korea,other things are up to everyone's judgement.

 

[eddieInUK]

Come on Japan, lets rock and roll.

 

[cirr]

A Japan that's free of the fetters of the US is good for China。

A nuclear-armed North Korea，plus a strong South Korea that are both poised to strike at Japan，is also good for China。

In short，a Northeast Asia that's devoid of the US influences is good for China。

Go Japan，build a nuclear bomb。Now！

 

[Soryu]

- Akizuki, “Autumn Moon”, DD-115.
- Launched at the Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Shipyard in Nagasaki.
- First of five ships of the class to be built.
- To be commissioned in 2011, followed by the second ship in 2012, third and fourth to be commissioned in 2013.
- Displacement: 5,000 tons, fully loaded 6,800 tons.
- Maximum speed: 30 knots
- Electronics: OPS-20C search radar, OYQ-11 ACDS, FCS-3 AAW System, OQQ-22 ASW System, NOLQ-3D EW System
- Armament: 1 Mk. 45 5″ gun, 4 x 2 sets of Type 90 anti-ship missiles, 32 vertical launch silos for missiles (Enhanced Sea Sparrow, ASROC), 2 triple tube HOS-303 324mm torpedo mounts
- Aviation complement: 2 SH-60 helicopters
- Equipped with ATECS battle command system
- Meant as an escort for Hyuga and 22DDH helicopter destroyers and JMSDF BMD destroyers (Atago, Kongo-class)

Hey, let just ignore China mighty "troll" navy, I have a question:

Why did TRDI design DD ship (Murasame, Takanami, Akizuki) with hangar door like this!? (big door and small door)

 

[Viet]

...bunch of islands. It's also the same with China and Vietnam.

I believe peace can be achieved in East and South East Asia,but having to bring Japan to counter balance China in the SCS seems like it would bring more aggression and may even make the situation worse not just in the SCS but also in East Asia. Right now, whats hindering peace in East and South East Asia is a couple island disputes that are barely habitable if not at all.

I'm curious, if you have any hypothetical ideas on how China and Vietnam can resolve the SCS issue without screwing either parties because really other than the islands issue, I really do think China and Vietnam can be really close considering they are both communist countries and shared similar political history, in theory the two nation can be really close much like Pakistan and China.

Although this thread is not about Vietnam, I can share my thoughts with you, my 10-point plan to resolve the dispute in the South China Sea. I posted the points some time ago. The idea is based on the current status-quo and a peaceful approach:

1# China abandons the 9-dash-claim
2# Vietnam accepts China sovereignty over Paracels including surrounding territorial waters (12 nautical miles)
3# China accepts Vietnam sovereignty over currently occupied Spratly islands including surrounding territorial waters (12 nautical miles)
4# Vietnam accepts China sovereignty over currently occupied Spratly islands including surrounding territorial waters (12 nautical miles)
5# both China and Vietnam give each other fishing rights in surrounding waters of Paracels and Spratlys, both cooperate in searching for oil/gas reserves in the SCS
6# China accepts Vietnam´s EEZ and continential shelf (200 nautical miles and beyond)
7# the SCS administratively to divide into 2 halfs (check map: the parralel line under Paracel islands), North part goes to China, South to Vietnam
8# China and Vietnam sign a 50-year non-aggression pact
9# China and Vietnam guarantee free navigation to all nations
10# China and Vietnam agree on regulary join patrols along the common sea border

 

[Speeder 2]

No offence but the JMSDF is far superior to the littoral based PLA Navy. Is there an Chinese equavilant to the Atago DDG, or the new Akizuki Class destroyer? Type 052C/D lacks the level of Kongo DDG Anti-Ballistic capability. Japanese AIP submarines is superior to any PLAN submarines, nuclear or diesel. Chinese subs are famous for being noisey, even one of your nation's naval officers had admit this. The PLAAF has certain advantages over the JASDF, like more Fighter bombers and Air-Superiority Fighters. But F-2 multirole jets can inflict damage on PLAAF J-10A planes and the F-15J can take on J-11s, J-16 etc. But lets face it, the senkaku Islands conflict is practically an naval confrontation.

..

No offence but you seem to have no clue whatsoever on what you're talking about.

1. 052C/D are not in the same class as Atago and Kongo by tonnages and they might be less advanced in some particular sub system/s. Yet looking at the most important measure of destroyers - the sheer attacking fire power & anti-satuation defence might- Atago and Kongo are no match at all.

Radars of Atago/Kongo only have capabilities of simmultanously attacking (& defending) 4 targets from the same direction ( the theoritical max. in an ideal situation, and assuming 100% successful), and their total attack/defence fire channels are therefore limited, about 12 simmultanously in an ideal situation. 052C/D, however, have far more advanced radar systems which allow theortically unlimited satuation attack & anti-satuation defence fire channels. e.g. 052C's fire power could literally allow firing all 48 missles towards Atago/Kongo at one go. What Atago could do? Pray and pray hard.

In fact attacking capacilities (& anti-satuation defence , too) of 052C/D, particularly D, are amongst the most powerful ones in the world, even more so than Type 45. In a one-to-one standoff, Atogo/Kongo is like sumo guy who can dodge 4 to 12 bullets max. at the same time with an assault rifle of limited range, while 052C/D is like Jackie Chen with a hand-held automatic machine gun of up to 48 bullets per sec capable of dodging bullets far more than 12 at the same time theortically.

That's even without mentioning the advantages in range and quality of 052C/D anti-ship missiles vís-a-vís those of Atago/Kongo.

2. heck let alone 052C/D, even let 3 Type 022 small missle boats firing 3*8= 24 C803 at the same time against 2 Atago putting together, what they can do? Pray and pray hard,

3. your comparison of conventional subs to n-subs is apple-orange.

4. modern warfare is not about ww2 level ship against ship shooting maingun at each other and see who's the last man standing, but about all things. Do CVs belong to naval? Do F/A 18s belong to naval?... right, China's Navy has 100s of Su-30 MKK, JH-7, J-10A, J-11B, which could shoot easily >800 anti-ships missles at the flip of fingers. Without presence of large # of F-22A taking the air supremacy beforehand, entire naval fleet of Japan will go to the seabed in no time in a serious naval conflict against PLA navy.

5. well, when a large # of F-22 take part in the conflict, it shall become entire different matter as it signifies the start of all out war btw China and US. Then all bets will be off and it won't be a small naval conflict anymore.

 

[Viet]

I see so:

Japan has much more experiences in naval warfare than China. From the technological standpoint, I would say this point goes to Japan, too. On the other hand, China navy is far superior in numbers. Point to China. Chinese factories can replace quickly any losses. Another point to China. China:Japan 2:2.

Hardly to predict, who will win. One thing is certain: if a naval war breaks out between China and Japan, high casualties must be calculated on both sides.

I like this ship, wish we can get it in our navy one day.

Japanese destroyer Akizuki (DD-115)

 

[Speeder 2]

I see so:

. China:Japan 2:2.

Wrong.

Unless it's a limited skirmish where it can go either way, a serious naval conflict btw the two where each sends out all of their related naval assets (e.g. all surface ships, subs, naval aviation units, AWACS, anti-sub planes, Helos, spy sats, etc), china wins 100% without doubt, assuming no large amount of F-22 (the US)involved.

 

[Zero_wing]

What the hell are you talking about,Korean war?I don't know how big a contribution you did to the Korean war,can not be bigger than US I guess,spare all the small details,the end fact of the war is we started the fight right next to our border and we ended it half way through Korea,other things are up to everyone's judgement.

Well that's history so please spare me the communist bull if you have no counter arrangements stay silent anyway the chinese navy meet its match in Japanese Maritime defense forces that's it china must obey international law its a must for everyone sake not just Japan solve by peaceful legal means. If Japan changes its constitution its their right but attack them first just like what you people are threatening to do with us then its World War 3 so better obey the International standard far more better

 

[Soryu]

Wrong.

Unless it's a limited skirmish where it can go either way, a serious naval conflict btw the two where each sends out all of their related naval assets (e.g. all surface ships, subs, naval aviation units, AWACS, anti-sub planes, Helos, spy sats, etc), china wins 100% without doubt, assuming no large amount of F-22 (the US)involved.

JMSDF will not think like you.

They action follow task force team's work.
Atago/Kongo class are BMD role (and even flag ship role). DDH are flag ship and ASW main force. DD ship like Murasame and Takanami class are GP ship for ASW and ASuW. And Akizuki class are AAW's role for guard DDG and DDH ships. Not mention their Submarine's fleet.

China has number advantage, but PLAN must take time to gather all force for a all out war which It mean no step back and maybe lead a nuke war and the end of this world.
So If there are small and fast conflict, Japan has their advantage.