Japan Defence Forum

[pigtaker]

Most Japanese are smart enough to understand WWII, and "revenge" against the US is probably not a top priority for even the most nationalistic.

My guess would be protection against Chinese "revenge" for events in that part of the last century is far more worrisome, though I have to agree that things can/will change in the future.

@Nihonjin1051

Of course we will, that is in our DNA demonstrated by our history. Nobody could hurt us twice whehter it was Hun, Turks, Mongal,Manchu.

As for japs, it is just common sense of human nature that they hold such grudge. The question can only be if they have the capacity and chance.

We have Chinese, Japanese, Americans, Indians, Vietnamese point of view, we lacks South Koreans member here to expressing their concern towards Japan. As an Indonesian, my government will giving a full support for Japanese move to reinterpret their Constitutions and change their Civil service into full fledged military uniform.

Good for you. Just several days ago one of your island memorize event of 50 thousands civilians massacred by japs army. It seems people could easily get away by treating you like that, setting a good example for the furture.

 

[OCguy]

Of course we will, that is in our DNA demonstrated by our history. Nobody could hurt us twice whehter it was Hun, Turks, Mongal,Manchu.

As for japs, it is just common sense of human nature that they hold such grudge. The question can only be if they have the capacity and chance.

Only the emotional or uninformed view the two atomic bombs dropped at the end of WWII as somehow worse than any number of horrific conventional bombing campaigns carried out in that time-frame. Luckily the atomic age was in its infancy and the devices were small compared to the monsters that were weaponized only years later.

But I digress....that is another subject altogether.

 

[pigtaker]

Only the emotional or uninformed view the two atomic bombs dropped at the end of WWII as somehow worse than any number of horrific conventional bombing campaigns carried out in that time-frame. Luckily the atomic age was in its infancy and the devices were small compared to the monsters that were weaponized only years later.

But I digress....that is another subject altogether.

no, one is about civlilian casulties and the other is combat one, this is the most diffirence.

 

[OCguy]

no, one is about civlilian casulties and the other is combat one, this is the most diffirence.

This may actually be relevant to the thread subject since it gives perspective on the Japanese modern-day mind set and is most likely influencing contemporary decisions by the Japanese government, so I'll bite.

Estimates range from 150k-250k "civilian" casualties from both atomic bombs combined. Here are some official numbers from conventional bombing campaigns prior to nukes, but then some simple math follows the estimates to show just how low they are in all likelihood:

"Official":

A lesser number of M-47 incendiaries was also dropped: the M-47 was a 100-pound (45 kg) jelled-gasoline and white phosphorus bomb which ignited upon impact. In the first two hours of the raid, 226 of the attacking aircraft unloaded their bombs to overwhelm the city's fire defenses.[10] The first B-29s to arrive dropped bombs in a large X pattern centered in Tokyo's densely populated working class district near the docks in both Koto and Chuo city wards on the water; later aircraft simply aimed near this flaming X. Fourteen B-29s were lost.[11] The individual fires caused by the bombs joined to create a general conflagration, which would have been classified as a firestorm but for prevailing winds gusting at 17 to 28 mph (27 to 45 km/h).[12] Approximately 15.8 square miles (4,090 ha) of the city was destroyed and some 100,000 people are estimated to have died.[13][14] The US Strategic Bombing Survey later estimated that nearly 88,000 people died in this one raid, 41,000 were injured, and over a million residents lost their homes.

Simple math contradicting those estimates above:

The figure of roughly 100,000 deaths, provided by Japanese and American authorities, both of whom may have had reasons of their own for minimizing the death toll, seems to me arguably low in light of population density, wind conditions, and survivors' accounts. With an average of 103,000 inhabitants per square mile (396 people per hectare) and peak levels as high as 135,000 per square mile (521 people per hectare), the highest density of any industrial city in the world, and with firefighting measures ludicrously inadequate to the task, 15.8 square miles (41 km2) of Tokyo were destroyed on a night when fierce winds whipped the flames and walls of fire blocked tens of thousands fleeing for their lives. An estimated 1.5 million people lived in the burned out areas

Bombing of Tokyo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The carpet bombing of Dresden, London, and ground campaigns and atrocities were also horrific for civilians, and carried out by all sides. I just don't see the accepted aggressors starting more offensive action 100 years later to seek "revenge" on those who defeated them.

Now those who were victims of initial aggression, and possibly have a chip on their shoulder? Look out...

 

[Viet]

I hope you can also emulate jap's trajectory, be ready to take nukes like japs did, then become a lapdog.

What a moron!

Have I told you that Vietnam is soon to build a new nuclear research centre, with Russia help?

And a new space centre for constructing of satellites and rockets is under construction, with Japan help?

Nukes?
Oh Yes.

 

[Nike]

Of course we will, that is in our DNA demonstrated by our history. Nobody could hurt us twice whehter it was Hun, Turks, Mongal,Manchu.

As for japs, it is just common sense of human nature that they hold such grudge. The question can only be if they have the capacity and chance.


Good for you. Just several days ago one of your island memorize event of 50 thousands civilians massacred by japs army. It seems people could easily get away by treating you like that, setting a good example for the furture.

Imperial Japan Army, not JSDF. They are different entities and organizations with different spirit at the core, we will never forget their atrocities, but we must move on and going forward to face the challenge in future.

 

[ameerhamza360]

Japan and China tension mounting up ..

 

[Viet]

Japan will not go to war la. Please!

List of countries by median age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Today Japan median age is 45 years old. This kind of old man wont fight.

Are you sure?

 

[Aepsilons]

Most Japanese are smart enough to understand WWII, and "revenge" against the US is probably not a top priority for even the most nationalistic.

My guess would be protection against Chinese "revenge" for events in that part of the last century is far more worrisome, though I have to agree that things can/will change in the future.

@Nihonjin1051

I'm rather perplexed because a lot of posters here who claim to be Chinese , are adamant in their posts that Japan wants war, or perhaps almost disillusioned that we are going to go on an Imperialist crusade around Asia and the West. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

@OCguy ,
Our alliance with the United States is solid, and we have largely been intertwined through our economies and banking systems, as well as our military technology transfers and research development programs. Japan's designs for Asia and Pacific is complementary with that of our partners in maintaining stability and most importantly, Freedom of Navigation.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Are you sure?

Sorry for my strong statement. Japan having a median age of 45 years old will be unlikely to post a long term security threat to China.

If a nation as advance as Japan median age is 20 years old, then China need to worry.

Japan today has no war potential. She has no natural resource and no strategic breadth. She is just a client state of USA.

 

[Aepsilons]

Sorry for my strong statement. Japan having a median age of 45 years old will be unlikely to post a long term security threat to China.

If a nation as advance as Japan median age is 20 years old, then China need to worry.

Japan today has no war potential. She has no natural resource and no strategic breadth. She is just a client state of USA.

Listen, Singaporean, your city state has no room to talk. The population of Singapore is the same size as one of our smaller cities. Japan is resurging, our economy has moved from negative growth to positive growth, our exports are going up, our wages are increasing, government is increasing policies to increase teh population as well as loosen immigration of skilled personnel. And now, our military will have a more active role in global security.We are a military power, but purely on defensive designs. Meaning, if you attack us, then we will gut you.

Before you usher a word, please research.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Listen, Singaporean, your city state has no room to talk. The population of Singapore is the same size as one of our smaller cities. Japan is resurging, our economy has moved from negative growth to positive growth, our exports are going up, our wages are increasing, government is increasing policies to increase teh population as well as loosen immigration of skilled personnel. And now, our military will have a more active role in global security.We are a military power, but purely on defensive designs. Meaning, if you attack us, then we will gut you.

Before you usher a word, please research.

You are becoming a poor country drowning in debt. You guys old man and heavily in debt, you are hopeless.

 

[OCguy]

Japan today has no war potential. She has no natural resource and no strategic breadth. She is just a client state of USA.

Don't underestimate the ability and motivation of a population who is defending their home territory.

I agree that offensively Japan has no current ambitions, but what you list as a reason that war is impossible (natural resources), is actually the very reason that war will someday be likely again in that region.

What gets disparaged often on this forum as "lapdogs" or "client states" is actually a crucial and necessary piece of strategy for any nation with aspirations beyond isolationism.

Relationships between countries and even people naturally are influenced by power between each party, but that does not mean that they are bad or not mutually beneficial. And in Japan's case specifically, they have the GDP to militarize to the moon and back if they felt they needed to. The US nuclear umbrella that they enjoy is something that they could create indigenously should they decide to.

 

[Aepsilons]

You are becoming a poor country drowning in debt. You guys old man and heavily in debt, you are hopeless.

LOL ! says a person who comes from a country the size of a very small prefecture. Go back to the hole from whence you came.

 

[Lux de Veritas]

Don't underestimate the ability and motivation of a population who is defending their home territory.

I agree that offensively Japan has no current ambitions, but what you list as a reason that war is impossible (natural resources), is actually the very reason that war will someday be likely again in that region.

What gets disparaged often on this forum as "lapdogs" or "client states" is actually a crucial and necessary piece of strategy for any nation with aspirations beyond isolationism.

Relationships between countries and even people naturally are influenced by power between to each party, but that does not mean that they are bad or not mutually beneficial. And in Japan's case specifically, they have the GDP to militarize to the moon and back if they felt they needed to. The US nuclear umbrella that they enjoy is something that they could create indigenously should they decide to.

I am stating a fact. You know who control Japan. If you cannot see that Japan is USA colony, I wont waste my time talking to you.

Talk about war potential, only countries below has it
1) USA
2) China
3) Russia
4) Canada
5) Australia
6) India
7) Brazil
8) Argentina