J-31, a long way to come on board

[Eagle Claw]

SAAB and BAE are not stupid to pass the critical know how to turkish. If so, Turkey will have long admitted to EU. Turkey is considered a outside member of the big 3 in Europe.
They are something that money can't buy. It takes many years of research, investment(not few billions but double digit billions to materialise which I doubt Turkey has) in your infrastructure to upgrade your overall national technology level.

SAAB is assisting the project. If they won't pass any info or help in development. Then for what purpose Turkiye is taking their assistance ??

 

[Beast]

I had a discussion with one of my Chinese Friend((Note a Very Well Informed Person)) regarding J-31 5th Generation Stealth Aircraft.
According to him, PLAAF has no intentions uptill now to buy J-31. Thats the reason they are not Funding the project and all the R&D is being Carried out on the Funds of Shenyang Corporation itself. PLAAF will go forward with Chengdu J-20 and **They are not for Export Purpose Similar to the concept of F-22 Raptor**.
As Shenyang Corporation itself is providing funds for the project therefore its to be mentioned that the **Project's development Speed is going Considerably slow**. He added that he haven't heard about J-31 since one and a half year.
At the same time he says that only thing that has been known latestly is that J-31's latest Prototype 2.0 will make an Appearance in China, Airshow in November.
He added that **the Aircraft needs alot of Improvements**
According to him **J-20 took 5 years to enter LRIP
J-31 took nearly 4 years, and didn't even have a second prototype yet.**
Now considering all that and keeping it in mind, one can easily say that the platform won't be available till the Decade Atleast.
And thats a sign to worry for Pakistan Airforce as its interested in the platform.
Only way to Speed up the Project is to provide it Funds, or else it will be sneaking slowly and slowly. As Pakistan Airforce might be planning to go into a Joint Venture with Turkish 5th Generation TFX Platform(which is a sensible move as it is being directly funded by Turkiye), Pakistan Might not be able to provide funds for J-31 as it did for FC-1 or JF-17 Thunder.
Pakistan Airforce needs some other Capable Platform before J-31 comes into Production, Particularly as a stop Gap.
Keeping the situation in view, 2 Squadrons of JH-7B for PAF and 2 Squadrons of Mig 35 would make the best sense.
Why I have mentioned JH-7B is because its an EW platform Speculated to be with Similar capabilities as EA-18 Growler(Claimed By China). PLAAN (Navy) is funding the project.
The Ordinance it offers, the Payload and hardpoints it has to offer will fulfill alot needs of PAF.
Where as For The Air Superiority and Multiroll Missions Mig 35s can be used in a very effective way. With the engine commonalities with JF-17 Thunder it will be easir to maintain as well and will save alot of $s for Infrastructure development from Scratch.
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I seriously doubt your well informed member info. I have insider info and J-31 main problem is firm customer order. Technology wise, Shenyang is quite confident of most of the needed technology for J-31.

 

[Arsalan]

Its not happening Currently for Block1s and Block2s but what about Block 3 ??
There has been no statement regarding the fact that we are interested in WS-13. But regarding RD series engines there is always something to hear from Officials.

Even for Blk 3 sir, we are sticking with RD93 as they have confirmed that they are satisfied with the engine.

As for the Chinese engine, the interest is purely export oriented. We need an engine from China if we are to take the plane to full potential in export market. We wont be able to sell it easily with Russian engine as we do not have the intellectual rights to RD93. Will have to clear every export deal with Moscow and considering that we might be in completion with some Russian planes, it will be a tough place to be. Ergo, the interest in Chinese engine developments.

 

[Beast]

SAAB is assisting the project. If they won't pass any info or help in development. Then for what purpose Turkiye is taking their assistance ??

They will give a few guide on design and overall layout. Project management. You sounds quite naive. Seriously.

What's makes you think Western Europe are seriously in helping Turkey to be a powerhouse in aviation? To compete with them and they make less money?

 

[Eagle Claw]

I seriously doubt your well informed member info. I have insider info and J-31 main problem is firm customer order. Technology wise, Shenyang is quite confident of most of the needed technology for J-31.

Okay, but why PLAAF or PLAAN is not investing in the project if **Shenyang is quite confident of most of the needed technology for J-31** ??

They will give a few guide on design and overall layout. Project management. You sounds quite naive. Seriously.

What's makes you think Western Europe are seriously in helping Turkey to be a powerhouse in aviation? To compete with them and they make less money?

lol do you think they will assist Turkiye for free ?
They will Charge $s for that
If they are getting $s, that all what they want. Thats the reason they have created their aviation industry

 

[Beast]

Okay, but why PLAAF or PLAAN is not investing in the project if **Shenyang is quite confident of most of the needed technology for J-31** ??



lol do you think they will assist Turkiye for free ?
The will Charge $s for that
If they are getting $s, that all what they want. Thats the reason they have created their aviation industry

I already say, they are something money can't build. Turkey gives money but how much (USD30billion or USD50 billion)? Or you are telling me its only peanuts of USD 2-3billion? BAE and SAAB will only give minimal assistance. They try to squeeze you try while giving limited help with the little money you paid them and withheld the critical know how.You think Turkey is so rich?

Why US is not selling F-22 raptor no matter how much somebodies paid?

 

[Eagle Claw]

I already say, they are something money can't build. Turkey gives money but how much USD30billion or USD50 billion? Or you are telling me its only peanuts of USD 2-3billion? You think Turkey is so rich?

What do you think how much is their Defense Budget per annum ??

 

[Beast]

What do you think how much is their Defense Budget per annum ??

Turkey per annual military budget is only less than USD 18 billion. That is for Navy, Airforce and Army. Are you telling me Turkey can ignore all other forces and committed all funds just for a single aviation project? You seriously do not know the magnitude.

 

[Beast]

Well its round 45 Billion USD

May I know your source?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...the-biggest-defence-budgets-in-the-world.html

Take a good look and sorry to break your turkish dream.

You are too emotional. A lot of Pakistanis are delusion and think Turkey is some superpower just becos they are muslim and brother to them. You all do not know their limit. Your decision shall based on facts and not religion purpose.

You even got the cheek to lie about Turkey has annual military budget of USD 45billion?

 

[Eagle Claw]

May I know your source?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...the-biggest-defence-budgets-in-the-world.html

Take a good look and sorry to break your turkish dream.

You are too emotional. A lot of Pakistanis are delusion and think Turkey is some superpower just becos they are muslim and brother to them. You all do not know their limit. Your decision shall based on facts and not religion purpose.

You even got the cheek to lie about Turkey has annual military budget of USD 45billion?

I was mistaken but their defense budget is not that much lower.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/tu-budget.htm
This is the link of 2014 and they have spent 30 Billion USD in that year.
Now don't turn the discussion around. The point was that If Shenyang is so much confident that J-31 has everything that needs to be a Capable 5th Gen Fighter. Why PLAAF and PLAAN are not funding the project ??
Main Concern is this.
You should not be jealous about the affection we have with Turkiye !
As they never get Jealous about Pak China Friendship !

 

[Beast]

I was mistaken but their defense budget is not that much lower.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/tu-budget.htm
This is the link of 2014 and they have spent 30 Billion USD in that year.
Now don't turn the discussion around. The point was that If Shenyang is so much confident that J-31 has everything that needs to be a Capable 5th Gen Fighter. Why PLAAF and PLAAN are not funding the project ??
Main Concern is this.
You should not be jealous about the affection we have with Turkiye !
As they never get Jealous about Pak China Friendship !

I am not jealous of your affection for Turkey but amuse of Pakistanis blind faith for Turkey.

Shenyang is the most powerful aviation corps in China. And in China is talking about hundred billions of dollar. Shenyang is smart enough to use AVIC organisation to force Chengdu and many aviation institute to cooperate with them. All it needs is just a firm customer order

PLAAF and PLAN have their own requirement. What they don't need does not mean others do not need it too?
JF-17 is a good example. It is never require by PLAAF but adopted by PAF.

 

[Eagle Claw]

I am not jealous of your affection for Turkey but amuse of Pakistanis blind faith for Turkey.

Shenyang is the most powerful aviation corps in China. And in China is talking about hundred billions of dollar. Shenyang is smart enough to use AVIC organisation to force Chengdu and many aviation institute to cooperate with them. All it needs is just a firm customer order

PLAAF and PLAN have their own requirement. What they don't need does not mean others do not need it too?
JF-17 is a good example. It is never require by PLAAF but adopted by PAF.

Shenyang is such a powerful organization, and is so much confident about its new 5th Gen Jet. But still is unable to Convince its own Airforce to go forward with the project. Whats the requirement of PLAAF and PLAN which J-31 can't fulfill !
I am interested to listen about that.

 

[Beast]

Shenyang is such a powerful organization, and is so much confident about its new 5th Gen Jet. But still is unable to Convince its own Airforce to go forward with the project. Whats the requirement of PLAAF and PLAN which J-31 can't fulfill !
I am interested to listen about that.

Shenyang still has bulk share for PLAN and PLAAF, all the J-flanker series are by them. J-11B, J-11BH, J-16, J-15, J-15BS.. They need not worry so much for now.

 

[Eagle Claw]

Shenyang still has bulk share for PLAN and PLAAF, all the J-flanker series are by them. J-11B, J-11BH, J-16, J-15, J-15BS.. They need not worry so much for now.

They don't need to worry but customers do ask these questions. Have you seen any Airforce in world who ignore a top class bird and go for other bird even if has abundant of Budget ?
If J-31 is that much capable PLAAF and PLAN should not have ignored it. Again I am interested to listen about the requirements of PLAAF and PLAN that J-31 won't fulfill.

 

[Beast]

They don't need to worry but customers do ask these questions. Have you seen any Airforce in world who ignore a top class bird and go for other bird even if has abundant of Budget ?
If J-31 is that much capable PLAAF and PLAN should not have ignored it. Again I am interested to listen about the requirements of PLAAF and PLAN that J-31 won't fulfill.

Same as F-35, an aircraft inferior to F-22 and yet many countries queuing for it.

You shall worry more about your superpower Turkey able to accomplish the so called stealth project. I will not be surprised you told others Turkey will have military budget of USD450billion every year and will overtake US soon in all field in few years time.