J-31, a long way to come on board

[Immortan.Joe]

Can I ask all the members on this thread as to what they expect the J-31 with PAF to counter?

I personally would expect the J-31 to counter IAF Rafael primarily. Now, since IAF is not getting any Rafael before 2019/20 anyway, what is the problem with getting the first squadron by 2020? Infact, by actively participating in testing and engineering, PAF would be far well off and well versed with the performance of J-31 than IAF on Rafael.

So, no worries basically. In the meantime, let's just try and dissuade the PAF senior management from investing in more F-16's.

J-31 only has just one prototype flying and you expect a whole squadron by 2020!!

As you people that desperate that you would buy a undeveloped and untested plane which has not even completed its development goals? Well you may! Afterall you accepted JF-17 before it got its FOC.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

J-31 only has just one prototype flying and you expect a whole squadron by 2020!!

As you people that desperate that you would buy a undeveloped and untested plane which has not even completed its development goals? Well you may! Afterall you accepted JF-17 before it got its FOC.

Says the guys whose LCA teja was on a truck was not able to fly in airshow

Again instead of a flyby a truck ride together with pilot

Notice the Teja is no longer a Trainer anymore but a true jet fighter which is why a pilot has been assigned



Let us enjoy the Teja taxiing on the roads - mind I remind you still on a truck

Compare to this thing above the Chinese Model is actually flying I was not expecting the J31 to be flying this quickly

Chinese prototype planes have Yellow color , so this is certainly beyond that initial stage

 

[Mav3rick]

J-31 only has just one prototype flying and you expect a whole squadron by 2020!!

As you people that desperate that you would buy a undeveloped and untested plane which has not even completed its development goals? Well you may! Afterall you accepted JF-17 before it got its FOC.

The thing with the Chinese, and Pakistan, is that neither country has a habit of advertising their intention to make or procure something 20 years in the future, unlike one of our neighbors. And that China has a record of developing and inducting platforms faster then any other nation on Earth, just like the opposite holds true for India with their never ending saga of development of LCA, Arjun, Kaveri etc.

To shut you up, let's just say that J-10, J-11 and JF-17 were all under production by the time these were officially announced to the world. The same would be the case with J-31 and J-20. Both would just be presented one day, in active combat squadrons, the former by PAF and the later by PLAAF. Rest assured that PAF will have a potent response to Rafael by the time India inducts Rafael.

 

[rcrmj]

BAE & SAAB are helping with the design & technological development of the TAI TFX. Not easy to dismiss such an initiative especially when the biggest aerospace companies are actively partaking in its development

simply not that easy, not even all the European countries packed together can do it in 10 years tine

 

[Eagle Claw]

well J-31 is coming until 2025 for sure.... same goes for Turkish 5th Generation Program which is still in Design phase and no prototype out yet

until Pakistan will rely on F-16 and JF-17 for every threat out there

and J-20 is only for the Chinese so no export of these are expected

Project's Development speed is not that much fast as its not being funded by PLAAF. Shenyang

Hi,

The thing is that pakistan and china are joined at the navel---anything and everything can either be driven over or flown over---other than the naval items.

The project---J31 is way ahead of the turkish project---because the chinese are building two 5th gen aircraft at the same time---but they are investing most of their time and research in the J20---which is their lead aircraft.

So---all that info would flow down to the J31---in due time---. Then in the end betwen 6-10 years time---the package on the J31 would be more mature and sustaining ---.

The J31 will be procure by the chinese military---making it the one two punch---. Just because china is focussed towards the J20---does not mean the utility of the J31 has fizzled away.

We are in for a surprise for the next year for the J31.

@MastanKhan bro we need to realize that J-31 project is not the *Main focused* project that is running parallel. Its a side project. As Chinese are also themselves saying that the Bird needs alot of Improvement, PLAAF/PLAAN has no plans to induct it, and are also not providing funds to the project, all these things say alot.
J-31 has started before TFX, no doubt about that, But why I place my money in favor of TFX is that it will be directly funded by Turkiye, at the end the platform will have alot of Budget to grow.
On Contrary even if we provide funds to J-31, Shenyang Corporation's project, it will still not have that much funds. And again whats the surety that it will have same capabilities or capabilities close to that of Chengdu J-20 ?
We should only *Buy* J-31, but not become Partner in it untill and unless PLAAF or PLAAN has plans to go forward with the Platform. For the Partnership and Joint Venture Turkish platform is a right move forward. And before J-31's arrival which might take a decade, we need some other Aircrafts for a Stop Gap.
Prior to this we have inducted JF-17 Thunder, which was also a side project not the main project, though Pakistan has done everything it can for its Capabilities enhancement, but still its not grown in a way, J-10 has grown. Why because PLAAF has invested in the Project and hence More funds were there for R&D and Technological enhancement. If today we have gone forward with J-10s instead of Thunders, PAC Kamra would have been rolling out Much Capable beasts.
At the end the point is, invest on the main project, not the side project.

 

[Falcon26]

simply not that easy, not even all the European countries packed together can do it in 10 years tine

Nobody said it was easy, but the Turks have the commitment, the money and the resources to pull it off.

 

[Eagle Claw]

Chinese being crafty,have been using similar technology on J-20,31,10B and all three have been seen being tested together.
Speculation of J-31 being slow is just that,an speculation. About Chinese interest, the J-31 since start was for export market and was never intended for PLAF.

Yeahh and thats the reason that the Aircraft has limited scope to Grow. And is moving on Slowly because it doesn't have the abundant of funds for R&D. Shenyang Corporation is dragging the Project itself.
That argument makes no sense that its an export purpose Aircraft hence PLAAF/PLAAN won't be including them. This clearly means that their might be something due to which they are not going forward with the platform. Obviously no one can reject a Capable beast by saying *Hey, its for export Purpose, I won't buy it*.

J-31 only has just one prototype flying and you expect a whole squadron by 2020!!

As you people that desperate that you would buy a undeveloped and untested plane which has not even completed its development goals? Well you may! Afterall you accepted JF-17 before it got its FOC.

Get Lost from the thread !
It has nothing to do with you. Don't tell me that you guys don't have your own defense platform.

 

[باپ]

Yeahh and thats the reason that the Aircraft has limited scope to Grow. And is moving on Slowly because it doesn't have the abundant of funds for R&D. Shenyang Corporation is dragging the Project itself.
That argument makes no sense that its an export purpose Aircraft hence PLAAF/PLAAN won't be including them. This clearly means that their might be something due to which they are not going forward with the platform. Obviously no one can reject a Capable beast by saying *Hey, its for export Purpose, I won't buy it*.



Get Lost from the thread !
It has nothing to do with you. Don't tell me that you guys don't have your own defense platform.

Yeah and that "thing" is the size of China. They need large jets with lots of fuel carrying capacity to cover the whole of China and EEZ.
J-31 is small for that purpose and suits smaller countries. Hence no interest by PLAF and exclusive for export.

 

[Eagle Claw]

Yeah and that "thing" is the size of China. They need large jets with lots of fuel carrying capacity to cover the whole of China and EEZ.
J-31 is small for that purpose and suits smaller countries. Hence no interest by PLAF and exclusive for export.

Again that argument has no substance. Whats the dependency of *SIZE* of China on the Aircraft ???
And Aircraft already has a Considerable Range. *Small Countries* *Small Purpose* also makes no sense, look around the world, much smaller countries than Pakistan are operating much *BIGGER* Aircrafts.

 

[باپ]

Again that argument has no substance. Whats the dependency of *SIZE* of China on the Aircraft ???
And Aircraft already has a Considerable Range !

Seriously you have no idea what you are talking about and wasting yours and other people's time and websites bandwidth. Bye

 

[Eagle Claw]

Seriously you have no idea what you are talking about and wasting yours and other people's time and websites bandwidth. Bye

Well its you who is wasting my precious time. With such a kiddish arguments, which makes no sense.

 

[Taygibay]

Keeping the situation in view, 2 Squadrons of JH-7B for PAF and 2 Squadrons of Mig 35 would make the best sense.

No it wouldn't! That way would add 2 types to PAF's inventory for little gain. If they were replacing
other ACs types number per number, then it would. But since PAF is sending off the F-7s for Thunders,
and that the Mirages are not diamonds exactly, i.e eternal, one replacement is the way to go.
Either something that complements and/or can eventually replace the FFalcons or the J-17s.

Going for 5+ types for PAF would go towards the Indian zoo menagerie situation and I'm afraid that they'll
win at that maximal mayhem and nonsense game; they practically invented it!

For Pakistan's Air-force the 6th Generation Entrance plane would be J-31

6th? This really helps to show how stupid the Generation thing is to people in the know.
6th Generation is supposed to rely on autonomous optionally piloted designs ... which is
not the case with the F-31.
Forget generations, it's not a well-defined concept outside advertising /pushing your wares.

Why make J31 a multirole fighter? It should be for air superiority that help punch a hole in enemy air defense so the rest of the fleet can follow up with lots of bombs.

Because Multi-role : A- is the world trend in fighter making; B- is a better complement to Air "dominance" J-20;
C- is likely what exports clients will want; D- allows for stretched maturing schedule the FC-31 requires?

All reasons that Shenyang AC would understand.

Now, since IAF is not getting any Rafael before 2019/20 anyway,

If you're talking fighters, you're right, Rafael will never have even a prototype ready by then.
If you're talking other products, you're wrong though, as Rafael already makes stuff for India's
military and is geared to make a lot more in the near future :
http://www.airforce-technology.com/...fael-develop-air-defence-system-india-4852795

Chinese prototype planes have Yellow color , so this is certainly beyond that initial stage

And Chinese are too dumb to change the colour if a reason exists to do so?
That sounds a little racist if not just plain wrong. Besides, in the 3-1/2 years
since it first flew, the maker may have though it better to paint it stealth black
to enhance its image and images of it, wouldn't you think?
Colour has nothing to do with worth in any case.

​

Great day all, Tay.

 

[Paksanity]

PLAAF has not committed to J-31. This will seriously hamper export prospects. Program does not have government backing. We might end up watching a replay of F-20 Tigershark saga.

 

[Arsalan]

The idea about two squadron of Mig-35 and two squadrons of J-7 in opening post, not very bright. It will be a logistic nightmare. One need to work out the costs involved in operating so many different platforms in such small numbers. Thankfully, PAF seems to be very well aware of this situation. The idea is to make JF-17 the spine, keep improving it while operating one or two other kinds of aircraft for high end missions, a perfect Hi-Lo operational capability. The F-16 for now and a 4.5 or a 5th generation plane in future will fulfill this role.

I would personally like very much if we can get one 4/4.5 generation plane right now to support the JF17 young fleet and the F16s. That will give us another 10 to 12 years to wait for the most suitable 5th generation options. By that time the options (we all know which options we will have) would have matured as well. Making it through these 12 15 years is crucial without committing much resources to a not so mature platform. A good 4.5 generation platform, in half decent numbers, four squadrons or so will give us the crucial breathing space. There are quite a few options and if we are willing to spend the money, we can get what we want. PAF for now is trying to achieve that by getting more F16, anyway they can. The idea behind the push seems to be the same.

As for the future, if we do manage to secure some deal that will take us through these 12 15 years, we would end up with two most probable options for a 5th generation plane. A procurement that may well see some JF17 and F16s replaced. The PAF fleet will then most likely be comprising on JF17, a 4/4.5 gen plane that we should be buying now and a 5th gen plane that we chose. The options will most likely be J-31 from China or the Turkish TFX. For now, Chinese is the obvious better choice. The Turkish option have western connection the Chinese won’t have any such threads. The Chinese have significantly large knowledge base compared to Turkish who will be going for their first indigenous fighter plane program while China have done it quite a few times. They even have two 5th gen programs and J-31 will surely benefit from J20 success (even failure). Also by that time, PAF would be even more familiar with Chinese machines, producing them at home will be relatively slightly easy due to the past experiences. However, this is all for now. Once we get to that point, the decisions will be best made at that time. For now, the best option will be to keep investing in JF-17, keeping pushing for F-16s and see if you can cough up funds for a good 4.5 gen plane (the Su35, Chinese J10B, J11 or may be some European option though unlikely)

Regards!
Arsalan

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

PLAAF has not committed to J-31. This will seriously hamper export prospects. Program does not have government backing. We might end up watching a replay of F-20 Tigershark saga.

Well there is also something called Judging one's own needs, Unlike China which has 20-30 Projects , we don't have that luxury , the existing J-31 is in itself a great plus a running program with working copies of technology platform we need to upgrade our Airforce


J-20 is a Monster comparatively

For Pakistan's Airforce J-31 is sufficient for the role it will play , it is a upgrade because we are really aiming for plane beyond the 80's decade and finally starting to focus on present day.

Presently the plane carried 4 missiles that obviously have to improve to 8 missiles
Otherwise the plane looks to be shaping up nicely

18 Units is just about what we need initially to test drive the technology