Italy: Mosques must recognize Israel

[dr.umer]

It is reported by Press TV

Italy may take its discriminatory practices to a new level, calling for measures to make mosque leaders quit unless they recognize Israel.

Action must be taken so that mosque supervisors recognize Israel, said European Affairs Minister Andrea Rochi.

We must force those who do not recognize Israel to leave the mosques, he added, according to Italian news agency Il Tempo.

Criticism has been leveled at Italy as it has failed to end fingerprinting gypsies as part of a census program, despite a European Parliament (EP) recommendation to stop.

Many Muslims around the world do not recognize Israel, saying the United Nations had no right to allow the establishment of a state in a land that has long belonged to the Palestinians.

MVZ/AA

 

[araz]

It is reported by Press TV

Italy may take its discriminatory practices to a new level, calling for measures to make mosque leaders quit unless they recognize Israel.

Action must be taken so that mosque supervisors recognize Israel, said European Affairs Minister Andrea Rochi.

We must force those who do not recognize Israel to leave the mosques, he added, according to Italian news agency Il Tempo.

Criticism has been leveled at Italy as it has failed to end fingerprinting gypsies as part of a census program, despite a European Parliament (EP) recommendation to stop.

Many Muslims around the world do not recognize Israel, saying the United Nations had no right to allow the establishment of a state in a land that has long belonged to the Palestinians.

MVZ/AA

interesting!!
I would have had no objections if they had been removed for not recognzing Italybut how is italy related to Israel and what has recognition of israel got to do with being a religious leader. In any case our gripe is not with Israel but with the wrong policies of its government. Israel is a political entity and the Imams of Italian mosques recognizing it or not has nothing to do with its existance. It is akin to saying that just because we did not agree with the policies of Aparthied, we fail to recgnize South Africa's existance.
araz

 

[Munir]

If Israel stops derailing peace and abusing human rights then they would have a lot more friends. In the past they stole country from the Palestinains, they have eliminated opposition (where is human rights) and Italy expect to skip that. It is like adoring Nazi regime while knowing what they did to others...

 

[Awesome]

What a joke secularism is.

The state has no right to interfere with the internal beliefs of any Muslim.

The state is enforcing beliefs! Good grief!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

One must respect a country , or risk being removed, but heavens forbid if one asks for respecting ones religion.

What hypocrisy when it comes to freedom of speech - I could understand the whole denial of holocaust thing, but making recognition of Israeal mandatory?

 

[Zyxius]

One must respect a country , or risk being removed, but heavens forbid if one asks for respecting ones religion.

What hypocrisy when it comes to freedom of speech - I could understand the whole denial of holocaust thing, but making recognition of Israeal mandatory?

Most people don't realize this but the US State Department has been pressured into creating an office of Anti-Semitism that is responsible to combat "Anti-Semitism" (as defined by the Zionist lobby) anywhere and everywhere in the world!!! Not only that, but denial of the holocaust is a punishable offence which can send you to jail for a long time and kill any chances of a career or business. There is no secularism in the west....they admit that it is tweaked with other values that they strung together.

 

[muse]

All Wars of the 20th and 21 century have been and will be religious wars - and it's not going to be over any time soon - democracy, fascism, totalitarianism, communism, Zionism,islamism, and now secularism, all of these are to their adherents, religions, they protect and promote these as if they were religions. All these ideas anti-"Faith" in God and promoters of certitude.

Any way this business of israel and masajid is not going to happen - but I do see a silver lining to it - the more extreme the european is the better for my money

 

[Majnun]

One must respect a country , or risk being removed, but heavens forbid if one asks for respecting ones religion.

What hypocrisy when it comes to freedom of speech - I could understand the whole denial of holocaust thing, but making recognition of Israeal mandatory?

I agree completely. Israel must be recognized. Its the same as India not recognizing the borders and saying that Kashmir must be shown on maps as Indian territory, which is disgusting.

 

[Majnun]

Most people don't realize this but the US State Department has been pressured into creating an office of Anti-Semitism that is responsible to combat "Anti-Semitism" (as defined by the Zionist lobby) anywhere and everywhere in the world!!! Not only that, but denial of the holocaust is a punishable offence which can send you to jail for a long time and kill any chances of a career or business. There is no secularism in the west....they admit that it is tweaked with other values that they strung together.

I admit there is no secularism in America but there is secularism in UK and Canada, for example.
The example you gave of the Holocaust denying and Anti-Semetism was wrong to demonstrate this point.
But it is interesting in other aspects.
For example, isn't the anti-Semetism laws stopping freedom of speech? People like Geert Wilders and the Danes are really big on freedom of speech where you can denounce other religions if you want to, but then how come denouncing Judaism is not allowed? Denouncing Islam, Christianity and other religions is allowed, why not Judaism?
Then comes something laughable: The Jews aren't Semetic either. So Anti-Semetism, which is used as anti-Judaism, is actually completely wrong and unfounded.

However, Italy is right to say that mosques must recognized Israel.

 

[su-47]

recognising israel is one's choice. it shouldnt be enforced. that's dictatorship.

 

[Flintlock]

The question isn't of recognizing Israel....the question is : What kind of mosques don't recognize Israel?

Ans: The mosques which are not interested in matters of faith, but in matters of politics. Why should mosques have an opinion at all on matters not related to religion or theology?

Secularism works both ways. The religious people are suppose to keep out of politics. If they don't, then they are made to.

That's strict secularism for you. Political decisions are not to be made on the basis of ideology, but on the basis of pure reason.

If you are a critic of pure reason, then please read Kant's Critique of Pure Reason, which might be too abstruse for us to grasp anyways.

For those who are railing against secularism: Italy is not considered a good example of a secular state. The Vatican is too powerful, among numerous other problems.

 

[Zyxius]

The question isn't of recognizing Israel....the question is : What kind of mosques don't recognize Israel?

Maybe Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait and other Muslim countries should force all Indians to recognize Palestine and Kashmir before they are allowed to work or live there. It is equally possible that this could happen..would you like it? And do you think it is fair?

Secondly....Did you know that Israel is the one country in the world that has still refused to define its borders? And we're not talking about one or two places where they have disputes with their neighbors....ISRAEL DOES NOT DECLARE ITS BORDERS!! What are you recognizing when you recognize Israel? There is no definition to it yet. On what basis will you recognize a state that refuses to declare its borders and is in violation of more than one dozen United Nations resolutions ranging from their illegal occupation of Palestinian land to the apartheid against the Palestinians to the millions that they drove out of their homes and turned into refugees. So secular law actually states that Israel is in violation and is a rogue state....support for Israel is based on the Judaeo-Christian relationship, belief in the "Rapture", and belief that "God gave this land to the Jews". You are a hypocrite to be supporting this and claiming to be secular on the otherhand.

Ans: The mosques which are not interested in matters of faith, but in matters of politics. Why should mosques have an opinion at all on matters not related to religion or theology?Secularism works both ways. The religious people are suppose to keep out of politics. If they don't, then they are made to.?

You must be a fanatic if you believe that. Are you saying that people who are religious have no right to a say in politics? You are proving my point about secular fanaticism.

That's strict secularism for you. Political decisions are not to be made on the basis of ideology, but on the basis of pure reason.

You have just proved what I was saying on my other thread. Thank you

Italy is not considered a good example of a secular state. The Vatican is too powerful, among numerous other problems.

And you seem to be agreeing with a right wing religious/ideological agenda while saying that religious people should not have any input in politics. You contradict yourself.

 

[Flintlock]

Maybe Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait and other Muslim countries should force all Indians to recognize Palestine and Kashmir before they are allowed to work or live there. It is equally possible that this could happen..would you like it? And do you think it is fair?

I don't think its fair, and your example has little to do with Italy's decision.

Italy has asked Islamic institutions, not Muslim individuals, to recognize the existence of Israel. This is obviously related to the fact that mosques which don't recognize Israel are indulging in political activities which are considered undesirable there.

Besides, lets stop using Saudi Arabia as an example of religious tolerance. Let them start allowing people to practice other faiths before we do that.

Secondly....Did you know that Israel is the one country in the world that has still refused to define its borders? And we're not talking about one or two places where they have disputes with their neighbors....ISRAEL DOES NOT DECLARE ITS BORDERS!! What are you recognizing when you recognize Israel? There is no definition to it yet. On what basis will you recognize a state that refuses to declare its borders and is in violation of more than one dozen United Nations resolutions ranging from their illegal occupation of Palestinian land to the apartheid against the Palestinians to the millions that they drove out of their homes and turned into refugees. So secular law actually states that Israel is in violation and is a rogue state....support for Israel is based on the Judaeo-Christian relationship, belief in the "Rapture", and belief that "God gave this land to the Jews". You are a hypocrite to be supporting this and claiming to be secular on the otherhand.

Most countries have less-than-saintly reasons for their existence. Its either religion, ethnic superiority or cultural superiority which leads to the formation of countries.

Having said that, Israel has been recognized by the vast majority of countries as well as the UN.

You must be a fanatic if you believe that. Are you saying that people who are religious have no right to a say in politics? You are proving my point about secular fanaticism.

I don't "believe" anything. Secularism by one definition means that religious institutions have no role in politics. However, most countries have a healthy amount of freedom as far as religion is concerned (which is how they define secularism)

Sure, religious people have every right to a say in politics.

However, religious institutions should not endorse political views. It amounts to misleading the public and taking undue advantage of the faithful.

The last two sentences are my personal views, which are rarely followed in secular countries. For example, in the US, Presidential candidates regularly draw support from Church leaders.

You have just proved what I was saying on my other thread. Thank you

What might that be?

And you seem to be agreeing with a right wing religious/ideological agenda while saying that religious people should not have any input in politics. You contradict yourself.

I am not agreeing with anything. I am merely pointing out the facts. Italian society is not a good example of a secular state.

Infact, I believe that their constitution has no mention of the word 'Secular' at all.
Italians derive their laws from their ancient Roman judicial code and Napoleonic laws (wikipedia) which me and presumably you, know nothing about.

 

[x_man]

I think that Italians are bothering themselves unnecassarily....OK for arguments sake, we assume that all Mosques or Muslims accept Israel...Then What ???? Is anything going to change ? Will Jews and Muslims live happily ever after ? IMO , till the time the primary issue ( ligitimacy of Jewish state) isnt resolved , nothing is gonna change or bring these two masses togather...Even if they accept , they will continue to fight...

As for my humble advice to Italians, '' mangiare della pasta e la pizza e la fermata infastidendo Musulmanis....

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This is obviously related to the fact that mosques which don't recognize Israel are indulging in political activities which are considered undesirable there.

Then it is the political activities that are supposedly causing grief that should be stopped.

I think another analogy to this would be to force Churches who talk of a return of God's chosen people to also include Palestine, and state that the return does not include illegal settlements, Gaza, the West Bank, Golan etc. etc.

The whole idea is ridiculous.