Opinion | 10 'outrageously unthinkable' yet pragmatic solutions to Pakistan's major problems.

[Amaa'n]

..... and until Palestinan issue is solved you can't afford to accept Israel and they are your enemy and they will remain your enemy you are the biggest trouble for them if they want to take over Muslim land you can only stop them and threaten them they would be always your enemy Mr

see brother this is what our problem is, there is a clear difference between recognising an entity and accepting the aggression.
We can recognize Israel as a Jewsih state, there is no harm in that, look at Turkey, they are the major ally of Israel, they even conducted Military exercises., but does that mean Turkey takes side with Israel over Palestine issue?
we can always use diplomatic means to represent our opposition for their aggression.
Nobody is telling you to be friends with Jews, what I am saying is keep your enemy next to you.
@Aeronaut - i overlooked this point earlier, well recognising Israel would be a good move however their will be huge public aggression against it, whether military likes it or not., there will be hue & cry from every corner of the country and mullahs will be on the streets, and I believe you will find literate youth among the ranks of those mullahs too

 

[Zarvan]

see brother this is what our problem is, there is a clear difference between recognising an entity and accepting the aggression.
We can recognize Israel as a Jewsih state, there is no harm in that, look at Turkey, they are the major ally of Israel, they even conducted Military exercises., but does that mean Turkey takes side with Israel over Palestine issue?
we can always use diplomatic means to represent our opposition for their aggression.
Nobody is telling you to be friends with Jews, what I am saying is keep your enemy next to you.
@Aeronaut - i overlooked this point earlier, well recognising Israel would be a good move however their will be huge public aggression against it, whether military likes it or not., there will be hue & cry from every corner of the country and mullahs will be on the streets, and I believe you will find literate youth among the ranks of those mullahs too

Yes and every day and second Israel bullies Turkey and Tukey does nothing soon that would change too Sir you have different case Mr recognizing Israel would create chaos in your own country and can lead support for TTP like people and you will be in far more trouble and as long as Palestinian issue exists their is no question of recognizing this illegitimate state it would be war in our own country Mr

 

[Zarvan]

@Zarvan

Oh' Bhai- Do you want,Pakistan to bleed to death?

We have barely survived a total collapse. Its time for us to lick our wounds, heal this country and work for 'Pakistanis ONLY'. For us its 'survival time', we either adapt or die!


Lets give Afghanistans hand in marriage to Bhaarat. Let them see the real bania for themselves. They want to learn the hard way, we shouldn't stop them.

It will be a perfect relationship, where and Afghan who NEVER 'gives loyalty' - and a Bania who 'Doesn't believe in loyalty nor friendship' , will be left without the excuse of 'Pakistani subversion' and would have to make it work.

It will be a show worth watching, 'without the flak' being directed at 'us'.

Lastly, Afghanistan won't do jack for Pakistan if India invades us. They might just join them to try to get rid of us for good. Afghanistan is a lost cause. We would be much better off without an untrustworthy friend.

Dunia tay jo kam na away, aukhay saukhay velay

Us bay faizy sangi koloon,behtar yaar akelay.

Hazrat Waris Shah.

We can't run away form these problems like you are suggesting if we would than we would for sure bleed to death Sir Bharat will only enter when they have government of their choice and if that happens than you are dead Mr for sure 100 dead because that would also bring Mossad in and also ground for CIA and MI6 to keep operating from their and thousands of Afghans would join the fight against India not because they love Pakistan but they love Jihad against Kafirs and Taliban government has to be their and let USA run away from Afghanistan the next thing that would happen is after destroying Karazi and his Army in Kabul many Taliban would love to enter kashmir and they would try this for sure

 

[Irfan Baloch]

no Sir Israel they were your enemies they will remain your enemies and if you will not do anything and something happens to Masjid Al Aqsa your own people will first destroy your army than take on Israel on their own Sir you have to main leader in OIC not minimize your role Mr

Egypt, Turkey and Gordan have recognized Israel are they less Muslims than you?
even thinking on such lines for a Pakistani is blasphemous and by the way good luck with peoples arm against Israel
they wont treat your army like our army does to fasadis of Lal masjid and Sheria farce of Sawati taliban. they will use every weapon on their disposal to make you sing peace verses till the end of days

 

[Zarvan]

Egypt, Turkey and Gordan have recognized Israel are they less Muslims than you?
even thinking on such lines for a Pakistani is blasphemous and by the way good luck with peoples arm against Israel
they wont treat your army like our army does to fasadis of Lal masjid and Sheria farce of Sawati taliban. they will use every weapon on their disposal to make you sing peace verses till the end of days

Sir if they have recognized they have betrayed Muslims Sir but soon Israel will show them what are they worth what Egypt is going through every body is now looking at Turkey would be also not safe how much they call themselves secular Israel will always fell threatened yes they just would use USA and destroy and make you history and you would be crying yes and you better use weapons against them make weapons against them because anything happening to Masjid al Aqsa will create havoc in whole Muslim world and Israel will target it sooner or later that is one of the purpose of creation of Israel

 

[thesolar65]

@Aeronaut : Agreed to all the points. Specially No. 2(2) will give us problem. May show us as villains. Our politicians may have to follow you. And China will also learn from this. BTW if everything is implemented then we will also divert our resources to development and tourist from India will overwhelm Pakistan(I have finished nearly all important places in India).

 

[haviZsultan]

Brilliant article which I haven't been able to read properly because of some problems with some crazy people who, when I read news think I am doing something else. It has affected my posts and my position as a think tank because I can no longer type up huge posts. I agree with some of the solutions provided by the author which I noticed when I was skimming through the article.

I suggest we improve relations with China while cutting back on relations with the United states? Why? These are my solutions to the foreign policy questions:

Why to not be an ally of USA
1) Nuke deal with India but refused to Pakistan
2) Davis kills 2 Pakistanis and escapes. There is no proof of Afia being a terrorist and still in jail and will be there forever.
3) Fazlullah hiding in Kunar. Faqir Mohammed's (Ex-Bajaur Chief's) bases in Afghanistan.
4) US refusal to condemn India for the Siachen incursion but raising an outcry on the Kargil one which was made by fauji's after the Siachen debacle when they took 1000 miles of our land.
5) USA's offer to sell better quality F16's to India compared to what they sold us.
6) Framing of Pakistani innocents in the name of terrorism-Seen it, researched it.
7) Maltreatment of Pakistanis in airports and hounding of Pakistani political Organizations in north America. Even secular ones. Yes-this is the only thing they are good at.
8) Support for dictators in Pakistani land. 3 major ones had their backing. Zia was the one who Islamicized Pakistan with their blessing in case you did not notice.
9) Presler Amendment. When we were not needed by USA anymore. Cold war over, Afghanistan in ruins but of course the Soviets disgraced as they wanted that is what came. Military and economic cooperation CUT and mark my words IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN-200% chance and I bet on my life when this war on terror is over this will come again. They will harass us even more than they are now.
10) The blame Pakistan suffers on a daily basis. Pakistan is held responsible for every failure. I believe you think we are responsible. Partly I agree, yes. But you do not know about the successes, Ramzi yousuf, Baradar, Khalid Sheikh (top 9/11 terrorist) were all capture by us.
11) Pakistan counting on US support and not getting any in 1971. Weak point? Leave that then. I think it is too. But consider the rest.
12) Add to this the Indian nuclear test smiling Buddha in 74 being ignored by the US while ours in 98 resulting in our military and economy being sanctioned.
13) Add to this the framing of Kashmiri activist Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai in a false case as an ISI agent in another attempt to malign ISI

Why China:
1) Helped us greatly with nukes-US applied sanctions
2) Common interests. Chinas war with India in 1962.
3) Chinese rise as a superpower. Piggyback on it and we can rise too but we don't see the opportunity. As US sinks China will rise.
4) Higher than mountains and deeper than the seas-thats our relationship Hu Jin Tao said. They have helped us up when we were going through sanctions and were not getting exotic US machinery, J10's, JF17's.
5) One day China will beat the US economically and militarily. We should choose the right side and consider our future.

 

[Developereo]

you can't run away from Arab Iran rivalry you have try to solve it and mediate between them

Our relationship with the Iranians and Arabs is special; it transcends mere economic ties since we share deep cultural bonds with both groups.

Normally, we should try to mediate disputes between friends, but this Arab-Iran thing is just out of control. It has been going on for thousands of years, long before Islam or the Shia-Sunni divide. If we get involved, we will end up losing both sides as friends, because each side will see us as an agent for the other side and hate us for it.

Sadly, the only sane thing is to step back and hope that both sides realize their folly.

 

[Zarvan]

Our relationship with the Iranians and Arabs is special; it transcends mere economic ties since we share deep cultural bonds with both groups.

Normally, we should try to mediate disputes between friends, but this Arab-Iran thing is just out of control. It has been going on for thousands of years, long before Islam or the Shia-Sunni divide. If we get involved, we will end up losing both sides as friends, because each side will see us as an agent for the other side and hate us for it.

Sadly, the only sane thing is to step back and hope that both sides realize their folly.

No Sir we can bring them a little close more close they come more better for us and also situation in our country specially they sectarian

 

[Irfan Baloch]

not sure how many of our fellow members followed one of the best election special program (only in my opinion) which was by Dr Danish that had a select people with expertise in defence, foreign relations, education etc and then there were 2 political leaders each per program who gave their vision for Pakistan. we have heard the leaders already like Imran, Munawar Hasan, , Fazl Rehman, Gen Musharaf, Sheikh Rashid etc and what is their stance but it was great to see the analysis of their speeches by the guys like AM retired Shahid Latif, Zafar Hilali (former foreign officer) . I am just downloading and cutting the specific pieces relevant to this discussion and will share soon, time and effort permitting.

@Aeronaut

finally done it
my first instalment
had to finish it quickly with illustrations so its a bit crude. will see if I can spare time and energy for other interesting analysis too
but here is the first one so relevant to the thread

Zafar Hilali 20 April 13 ARY Sawal Yay Hey - YouTube

 

[Neptune]

Intervening for muslims? Actually we did it two times after the Ottoman era. One in Cyprus (Operation Atilla) at 1974 and one in Iraq at the 2000s (Operation Northern Watch).

I'd disagree with having a military muscle first. Of course I do know that India/Iran/Afghanistan are at the borders but strong economy brings advanced military as well as an increasing GDP PPP. Honestly, i wouldn't want to see Pakistan like China/India/Russia...etc. Because having a strong force only relied on economy/military is not good. No offence to my Chinese/Indian friends here but, pls look at China. Very well economy, growth rate, military. But look at how people live in China/India, the same in Turkey maybe.

For a goverment: building a powerful country should not be the purpose of the governments. Offering better life standarts to It's people people and guaranteeing their protection/safety should be their mission and the idea of solving Pakistan's problems should be followed under that path.

Foreign relations would stay the same if Pakistan had chose Russia/China as side. But the best is having good relations with all of them based on national interests would be fine.

For cultures ties, It's okay but at politics/defence/economy...etc. there's no brotherhood or the friend thing.


Just like @ZYXW stated. I'm too just a nineteen yo kid, i too have a lot to learn. But I think PAK gov't should better try to offer better standards for it's people rather than wasting money on defence or sth.

 

[Donatello]

Our relationship with the Iranians and Arabs is special; it transcends mere economic ties since we share deep cultural bonds with both groups.

Normally, we should try to mediate disputes between friends, but this Arab-Iran thing is just out of control. It has been going on for thousands of years, long before Islam or the Shia-Sunni divide. If we get involved, we will end up losing both sides as friends, because each side will see us as an agent for the other side and hate us for it.

Sadly, the only sane thing is to step back and hope that both sides realize their folly.

Sir our relationship with Arabs is based on financial reasons only.

They give us finances and invest in our country. Millions of Pakistanis live there and send remittances back home. So we cannot jeopardize that relationship. Plus the fact that Americans actually listen to Saudi Royals, they can be of utmost help when Pakistan is in a corner, like during the Kargil Fiasco.

However, i cannot say the same about Iran. During the Shah we did enjoy very good relations, but now it's merely like they are our neighbors and so we should have good relations with them. If Iran was that good of a friend, they wouldn't be preferring India over Pakistan for strategic gains. Not to mention that we have credible intelligence that Iranians are stirring up trouble in Balochistan.

 

[Donatello]

@Zarvan

Oh' Bhai- Do you want,Pakistan to bleed to death?

We have barely survived a total collapse. Its time for us to lick our wounds, heal this country and work for 'Pakistanis ONLY'. For us its 'survival time', we either adapt or die!


Lets give Afghanistans hand in marriage to Bhaarat. Let them see the real bania for themselves. They want to learn the hard way, we shouldn't stop them.

It will be a perfect relationship, where and Afghan who NEVER 'gives loyalty' - and a Bania who 'Doesn't believe in loyalty nor friendship' , will be left without the excuse of 'Pakistani subversion' and would have to make it work.

It will be a show worth watching, 'without the flak' being directed at 'us'.

Lastly, Afghanistan won't do jack for Pakistan if India invades us. They might just join them to try to get rid of us for good. Afghanistan is a lost cause. We would be much better off without an untrustworthy friend.

Dunia tay jo kam na away, aukhay saukhay velay

Us bay faizy sangi koloon,behtar yaar akelay.

Hazrat Waris Shah.

India investing in Afghanistan for the purpose of development? Bullshyt i say. They don't have money to put food on the table for their own people, don't have money to build their own infrastructure aur chaley Afghanistan.

Whenever an India colleague brings up that Afghanistan is India's strategic aim for a depth into Central Asia, i put forth two points to them:

1- Please take the millions of Afghans off our hands who have contributed zilch to our society since they came in during the 1980s. Pakistan gave them our Passports and our land. Look what they do with those passports. Go to western countries and talk non-sense about Pakistan. If India is that concerned, we would be more than happy to pack million Afghanis on our borderlands and ship them off to India.

2-I show them the map of South-Asia. Does it really look like that India can have an influence in Afghanistan without having actually borders with them?

 

[rockstarIN]

You need to make your perceptions about the war of 65 and 71 and Interference of India in Afghanistan ... Later on i was discussing your article with my father what he said little bit different of what you said .. He denied your two points..

If you look at the history, even world wars enemies are living quite conformable with each others.

Leave nations, even North America is still 'United States of America' after the long bloody civil war.

@Aeronaut, excellent article..btw..the solutions for the internal problems should also be included like implementing strict gun laws IMO.

 

[truthseeker2010]

Disclaimer | This thread is strictly for academic/hypothetical discussion only.


Introduction.

Most of Pakistan's security related issues are a product of our will to 'volunteer' ourselves for every Muslim cause on planet earth, especially in our own region. Most terrorist organizations in Pakistan today started abroad and we allowed them to flourish in Pakistan in the name of 'help'. I-e The Mujahideen, The Taliban were Afghans, Lashkar e Taiba and Hizb ul mujahideen were Kashmiri organizations - we even went as far as sheltering PLO the Palestinian organization.

We have turned ourselves into mercenaries who fight for 'other people' and their freedoms. We fought for Afghans,Kashmiris,Somalis,Saudis,Jordanians,Egyptians,Iraqis,Syrians,Bosnians,Kosovites - It had nothing to do with Pakistan. The most depressing lesson is that they don't even know our name. So i feel obliged to ask the question, 'why do it' ?

Here are a few ideas i am presenting to you guys to discuss and give me your responses. The ideas i think will help Pakistan in its security conundrum as well as help us establish peace in Pakistan. Dear friends, you must understand that Pakistan is in a state of survival - therefore drastic steps would have to be made. This hypothesis bases itself on the sense of security generated out of our Nuclear deterrent, which i believe gives us time to look away from outside and look inwards.


1: 'Quit Afghanistan | Strategic depth is dead'

Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, is a thing of the past. USSR is dead, now if Russians invade again, they would have to invade many C.Asian countries before they get to Pakistan. Moreover in regards to India, Pakistan has nuclear weapons and if our existence is threatened we can vaporise them in response. Therefore they won't mount an invasion of Pakistan, therefore the strategic depth is not needed, therefore Afghanistan is now irrelevant to our strategic calculus as far as a scenario of Indian invasion is concerned.

We should stop ALL interventions in Afghan affairs, allow India to have the transit to Afghanistan and Afghanistan to India in return of full recognition of the Durand line from Afghanistan, and Indian assurances of not using the Afghan soil for destabilizing Pakistan. Pakistan should refrain from Afghan affairs, altogether. We should NEVER help them EVER again in case of another invasion, let them fend for themselves. Should the worst case scenario of a hostile Afghanistan and a hostile India at the same time arise, we should focus all of our military assets to defend ourselves through a concentrated effort.


2: 'Referendum in Azad Kashmir'

Imagine if we liberate Kashmir through a military invasion from India. Then we conduct a free and fair referendum in Kashmir. If you are thinking that they will opt for joining Pakistan, you are wrong. Kashmiris will have no regard for Pakistani help, we will be taken for granted and Kashmiris will instead opt for an independent nation. Kashmir counts for 90% of our international diplomatic and security related problems, despite our best efforts we cannot 'win' as the great Muslim liberator as we hope to be.

I suggest, we should conduct a referendum in Azad Kashmir with following choices.

1: Join Pakistan formally - support Pakistani efforts to turn LOC into an international border with India.

2: Become an independant state.

Its a win win situation for Pakistan either way if we stop thinking of Kashmir as a 'Muslim problem/Pakistani problem' because it is not. It is a Kashmiri problem and they are the ones who need to solve it. If they choose the 1st option in a vast majority, we mount serious efforts of peacemaking with India.

If they choose the 2nd option, its a win win for us as we will help them become a new country, UN member, OIC member and then we can leave them alone to deal with the Indians,they would have to worry about the diplomatic/military strife with India, not us. It will become a 'Kashmiri Problem' - and this territory will act as a buffer between us and Indian forces. I would rather have Indian forces patrol Kashmiri streets than patrolling mine. Kashmiri freedom is worth Pakistani blood? - i wonder if it is and how much of it will be enough. We are giving blood since 1947.


3: Isolation from Arab-Iran rivalry.

Pakistan is a nuclear power and cannot be invaded, why should we be fighting as mercenaries for others? - I want no Pakistani boots outside Pakistan for ANY reason, for ANY country. Arab Iranian rivalry has a racist undertone, which Pakistan must not become a part of. We should allow them to solve their differences peacefully or go to war. Pakistan must not take EITHER SIDE, and remain totally neutral.

No Arab/Persian forces have helped us in 1948-1965-1971. It was us who were fighting for them not them fighting for us. We all know what the odds are of any military assistance from Iran or Arabs in any future war with India, don't we? - They won't come to our help, when we need them the most. - Pakistan therefore needs to become neutral -we need not meddle in their affairs nor we allow them to meddle into ours.


4: Recognize Israel

If Kashmir = Palestine than why Arabs and Iranians and Turks are allowed to recognize India while Pakistan is not allowed to recognize Israel? - Why they are allowed to trade with India, but Pakistan is not allowed to trade with Israel? - Pakistan should recognize Israel in return for unrestricted access to American and European markets and preferential trade agreements - as well as Pakistan gets the NSG membership. It will equal out our relations with the Arabs and the Iranians vis a vis Kashmir and India, and will improve our international standing by presenting us as a mature nation.


5: Join SCO

Pakistan should join SCO at all costs - dim its role in the OIC. Focus on China, Russia, C.Asia and India for trade and making the most of our geographic importance.


6: Build and maintain a Military muscle


If we adopt the above policy we need to build a potent conventional military muscle, big enough to provide impeccable national defense - to flush out the terrorist outfits - and small enough that cant be used in attacking any other nation in the world. Pakistan military should ONLY be used to defend Pakistanis. We should not care who's bombing Afghanistan and who's dumping Kashmiris in mass graves. As long as its not us getting killed, it shouldn't affect our military thinking.


7: Apologise to Bangladesh

We need to apologise to Bangladesh for our brutality inflicted upon them in 1971 - in return for free trade agreements and normalization of the bilateral ties.


8: Non intervention in the Muslim world

When was the last time you saw Turks,Indonesians and Malaysians intervening in other countries to 'protect Muslims' ? - NEVER. We need to do the same, we need to learn to ignore what happens in the Muslim world, so we can focus on ourselves. It should not be an issue to us, if Israelis bomb Palestinians,Lebanese and Egyptians, Burmese monks kill Rohingas, Serbs kill bosnians or Indians bomb Kashmiris. We should not intervene - they are not worth a drop of Pakistani blood.


9: Become business minded


Every F.policy favor we render to ANYONE - has to be in return for business favors returned to us. Once we build our economy, we send our kids to schools and universities - than we can think about other goals.

10: Pacifist Pakistan


Pakistan should give up its alliance with the US, normalize its ties with the US as a non aligned nation, bolster ties with China,Russia, India , Brazil and EU. A Pakistan that is indifferent to the security climate in other nations as long as its not us. We should never wage war on other nations-nor become partisans in one.


By doing this, we can reinvent our position in the world as a self centric country that is pro business - pro trade and anti conflict.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Have your say.

Peace.



@Hyperion @ajpirzada @Irfan Baloch @Oscar @Argus Panoptes @Zarvan @Marshmallow @Armstrong @Xeric @Icarus @muse @Mosamania @Hussein @A-Team @Sher Malang @ghilzai @Pak-one and others.

3,5,6,8,9,10 should be done ASAP, and they are not outrageous. The rest are all debatable