Opinion | 10 'outrageously unthinkable' yet pragmatic solutions to Pakistan's major problems.

[Barakah]

Culture is influenced by religion.

That's why people talk of Judeo-Christian culture, or Islamic culture, or Confucian-based cultures, etc.

To a certain extent it does yes. But still i would not put the two togheter. Pakistani indian saudi egyptian malaysian indonesian all are muslim countries however culturally they are different

 

[Barakah]

To a certain extent yes. However i still wouldnt put the two togheter. Like i saod they are apples and oranges both are fruits but completely different. Just take a look at malaysian or pakistanis or arabs or north africans all muslims but culturally we have our differences

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Culture is influenced by religion.

That's why people talk of Judeo-Christian culture, or Islamic culture, or Confucian-based cultures, etc.

Confucianism is more of a philosophical system of social ethics. Not a religion.

You could say the same thing about Buddhism. In its original form it is more of a philosophy than a religion.

East Asia nowadays is fairly atheistic like Northern Europe, even though the two systems above have had a lot of influence.

 

[Icarus]

tell me my dear... if and when will my fellow soldiers would eradicate these Saudi funded pests who have not only killed his family members but they first killed the children in front of their parents and while executing their parents they used their phones and called their family members and made them hear the screams.

It sounds painful and heart rendering when written with such painful poetic sense but it has to be kept in mind that the Army is limited in it's operational capability through the government's orders. If they receive orders to act at this hour, you can bet that they will do so with complete and utter dedication. Also, when talking about the massacre of Hazaras, let's not forget the silent genocide of Punjabi settlers in Balochistan. They have also had to bear the same torture, they have been hoarded like sheeps and walked to their own slaughter.

these pests that you and I know so well are free to kill the people of this country like cattle.

any chance there?

you and me both know where these beasts drive their power, their finances and where their links go but ... will they continue to kill till the end of their natural lives in our faces?

They will, unless the Police starts to take initiative like in KPK. Otherwise, this is a fate that our own people have condemned themselves to. Let's not forget that it was our own gullible awam that rallied against military presence in Balochistan and had them restricted to Quetta.

forget Hamid Mir, of PMLn or the judges, they are never going to help but can you guys do anything or would you

We try our best but it is the same Awam that then lambastes us for 'Disappearances', 'Missing Persons', 'Maskhshuda Lashain', 'Human Rights abuses'. We can either act covertly or overtly but our people rally against all such efforts, in such a situation, the military and intelligence agencies have their hands tied. It hurts us much more than anyone else when we see these massacres carried out on a daily basis, because we know that we can do something about it but our wings have been clipped. If we try to balance out the situation, we stand all to loose and none to gain. If we execute a terrorist that we will know will walk free, our men will be sentenced to death or life in prison and from the resulting media **** storm, his family will be identified and eliminated by the terrorists (this is not a possible scenario, this actually happens) and with all that, we will also have to face the hatred of the people themselves that we seek to protect. The Colonel should know all this better than anyone.

 

[Hyperion]

Mate, extremely sorry to say, that must be the longest piece of BS I must have ever read...... Irfan Baloch was asking for some plausible explanation, not a comparison sheet... and if Army's wings are clipped, then god help us all, with that statement of yours.

Wake up, own up to the genocide. Soon there will be no Pakistani left with that so high "Punjabi" attitude of yours. Soon most of us will stop caring in rest of the provinces.....

It sounds painful and heart rendering when written with such painful poetic sense but it has to be kept in mind that the Army is limited in it's operational capability through the government's orders. If they receive orders to act at this hour, you can bet that they will do so with complete and utter dedication. Also, when talking about the massacre of Hazaras, let's not forget the silent genocide of Punjabi settlers in Balochistan. They have also had to bear the same torture, they have been hoarded like sheeps and walked to their own slaughter.




They will, unless the Police starts to take initiative like in KPK. Otherwise, this is a fate that our own people have condemned themselves to. Let's not forget that it was our own gullible awam that rallied against military presence in Balochistan and had them restricted to Quetta.



We try our best but it is the same Awam that then lambastes us for 'Disappearances', 'Missing Persons', 'Maskhshuda Lashain', 'Human Rights abuses'. We can either act covertly or overtly but our people rally against all such efforts, in such a situation, the military and intelligence agencies have their hands tied. It hurts us much more than anyone else when we see these massacres carried out on a daily basis, because we know that we can do something about it but our wings have been clipped. If we try to balance out the situation, we stand all to loose and none to gain. If we execute a terrorist that we will know will walk free, our men will be sentenced to death or life in prison and from the resulting media **** storm, his family will be identified and eliminated by the terrorists (this is not a possible scenario, this actually happens) and with all that, we will also have to face the hatred of the people themselves that we seek to protect. The Colonel should know all this better than anyone.

 

[Darth Vader]

@Aeronaut I agree with almost 8 points but not with 2
1 related to kashmir
2 Apologise to Bangladesh
still you done a good job

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Also, when talking about the massacre of Hazaras, let's not forget the silent genocide of Punjabi settlers in Balochistan. They have also had to bear the same torture, they have been hoarded like sheeps and walked to their own slaughter.
.

I know how Punjabis are marched out of the Buses and shot on the roadside at Kashmore many times just like the people of Baltistan and Sakardu are killed while travelling through Kohistan

yet this Punjabi government has insulted all such dead by re-naming Quetta express with that terrorist who took arms against the state.
I speak for the victims regardless of their race and religion. Punjabis are suffering the same as the Hazara but the only difference is that the BLA is not mutilating their bodies like LeJ does.



there was nothing poetic about my post, I am just fed up with the broken record of saying we know our culprits but cant do nothing about them.

there is one thing our military and intelligence agencies need is an exceptional media manager. as of now its only some forum amateurs or this red cap Zaid Hamid who openly talk and defend the army. come on sell yourself better than that.

in American airports the announcer announces the arriving flight containing the American soldiers and asks people to give them a warm welcome and people fall in and start the national slogans
and I have seen a contrast near the Islamabad old kachahris (G8 markaz i think? where Lawyers used to sit now they moved to kashmir highway i think).. seen a lone army jeep going and people spitting towards it.

for a start get the jags branch to launch a case against Geo reference to hamid Mirs allegation on ISI regarding the attack on medical students and the hospital. and get court notice against him for making allegations without proof, file a defamation case against him so that people stop taking cheap shots at armed forces and ISI

 

[Panther 57]

They have also had to bear the same torture, they have been hoarded like sheeps and walked to their own slaughter.

As far as BLA is concerned any non baloch is Punjabi.

 

[muse]

I strongly support the introduction, however, I do wonder how we may isolate ourselves from Afghanistan and Captive Kashmir or from sectarianism in support of the Wahabi and Shiah conflict -- and strongly support items 4, 5, 6, 7 8 and 9 , but not item 10..

We are connected to Afghanistan and we have been stupid in both using religion as a political and military tool in Afghanistan - Afghanistan, whether you like it or not, is our brother, it is blood of our blood - and we have been less than good brothers, the argument is nto that teh Afgha are ingrates for they are, the argument is that rather what our role should be --

The problems in Afghanistan arise from our internal weakness -- Are we decided and resolute that there must and will be a Pakistan and that Pakistan is a multi-religious, multi-sect, multi-ethnic and multi-lingusitic and that these have nothing to do with the reality of the state, in the sense that all citizens are free to practice their confession, transact business and educate their children in whatever languages along side the mandatory national language.

As you read this post, please think of all the problems we have left unresolved over the politics of identity and various nationalisms, to the exception of Pakistani nationalism.

A strong, free, harmonious and prosperous Pakistan is a guarantee of a Afghanistan that strife free --- lets face facts, Afghanistan cannot now and will not in the future be able to sustain the populations it is growing -- beyond clearly demarcated and secure borders, it is in the best interest of Pakistan to help Afghanistan sustain herself, to be a part of the Pakistani economy and the Iranian, Chinese and Kazakh economies.

Some will argue that we have left out the Indian economy and this is a formula for proxy competition -- perhaps, but this is a choice for the Indian to make -- and the Indian are not without options from Chahbahar as they remind us, and nor should Pakistan block access to Afghanistan for Indian goods.

With regard to Captive Kashmir - Whatever else, we may choose as policy, Terrorism, Jihadism or religious militancy cannot ever again be allowed to even be considered - The Indian is our adversary, not our Enemy, with the resolution of the issue of Captive Kashmir, India stand not only as possibly our best friend and also ally, not just militarily but more importantly, economically - we in Pakistan and in India must take our blinkers off and realize that the world not just small areas of the sub-continent, are venues for cooperation and mutual benefit.

Now with regard to this Wahabi war on Shi'ism - Pakistan is the world second largest Shi'ah nation in the world - it is also on it's way to being the largest Muslim nation in the world --- Can we afford to have governance colored by religion?? Can we afford sects competing for power and the tools and privileges of governance? Can we afford to have sectarian warfare in our streets, villages, towns, cities and provinces?

Again recall, all our relations with foreign countries depends on a Strong, free, and prosperous Pakistan - and this Pakistan must be secular, to allow all to practice their confession without the temptation to use legislation and the tools of governance against other sects and confessions.

As to why Pakistan must not be pacifist -- We are connected to the entire world, the world remains a dangerous place and will possibly become even more dangerous, we must be strong, resolute and allow our values to be in accord with the values majorities in the world share.

 

[Developereo]

Pakistani indian saudi egyptian malaysian indonesian all are muslim countries however culturally they are different

And where did I deny that?
To say that "A and B are influenced by C" does not equate to saying that "A equals B" or "A equals C".

I wrote that Pakistan's culture is influenced by Islam, just as Mexican culture is influenced by Christianity.

 

[Huda]

Culture is influenced by religion.

That's why people talk of Judeo-Christian culture, or Islamic culture, or Confucian-based cultures, etc.

No

Culture is the way of life including, education, art, sociability, manners, music, and speaking, including slang. Culture does involve religion. But religion stands alone. Religion, in some ways dictate how people act in their culture, giving them rites and rituals to perform; which enriches the culture.

Like This is not from religion both of these traditions come from the fact that you can't wield a sword with your sword hand extended, nor when you are bent from the waist. Both of those traditions come from the history of the people's warfare. They have nothing to do with the religion.

Religion is the belief in (or lack of belief in) deities and supernatural forms and the rituals and traditions associated with them.

 

[Icarus]

Mate, extremely sorry to say, that must be the longest piece of BS I must have ever read...... Irfan Baloch was asking for some plausible explanation, not a comparison sheet... and if Army's wings are clipped, then god help us all, with that statement of yours.

Wake up, own up to the genocide. Soon there will be no Pakistani left with that so high "Punjabi" attitude of yours. Soon most of us will stop caring in rest of the provinces.....

I think my powers are being overestimated here. Sure, put me in a war zone and I will dispatch the bad guys but if the government fails to own up to the genocide, then there is no one in any agency that can act otherwise. We are bound by orders and unless we get orders from the military or civilian hierarchy, we can't just walk out and kill some bad guys. The intricacies of hierarchy may not be relevant in hollywood but real life is something else.

 

[Icarus]

I know how Punjabis are marched out of the Buses and shot on the roadside at Kashmore many times just like the people of Baltistan and Sakardu are killed while travelling through Kohistan

That's because the SSP is very visible and rampant in the Northern Areas. I have full sympathies with their victims.

yet this Punjabi government has insulted all such dead by re-naming Quetta express with that terrorist who took arms against the state.
I speak for the victims regardless of their race and religion. Punjabis are suffering the same as the Hazara but the only difference is that the BLA is not mutilating their bodies like LeJ does.

I have no hopes from Nawaz and Co because they have been in bed with sectarian elements since before I was walking and their recent affinity to towards nationalist leaders has only served to broaden their palate for terrorists and arsonists.

there was nothing poetic about my post, I am just fed up with the broken record of saying we know our culprits but cant do nothing about them.

So am I, I have lost many people close to me. Friends, course mates, under commands, juniors and seniors and it hurts me when I see their killers getting freed from jails and sent away from courts after acquittals but unless the government says we act, we can't.

there is one thing our military and intelligence agencies need is an exceptional media manager. as of now its only some forum amateurs or this red cap Zaid Hamid who openly talk and defend the army. come on sell yourself better than that.

I agree whole heartedly, recently a Brigadier who I will not name also went to the chief with the proposal but he shot it down and told him to talk to the DG ISPR. The Brig proposed that we pay some anchors to manipulate content, you know what the DG said? He said: "We would, put what our enemies pay these people makes our offering look like a joke'.
I hope the next chief will be more focused on a more vocal ISPR.

in American airports the announcer announces the arriving flight containing the American soldiers and asks people to give them a warm welcome and people fall in and start the national slogans
and I have seen a contrast near the Islamabad old kachahris (G8 markaz i think? where Lawyers used to sit now they moved to kashmir highway i think).. seen a lone army jeep going and people spitting towards it.

It hurts me too, people have been so thoroughly influenced by Pan-Islamic and Liberalist ideals that the Army no longer holds any importance in their life.

for a start get the jags branch to launch a case against Geo reference to hamid Mirs allegation on ISI regarding the attack on medical students and the hospital. and get court notice against him for making allegations without proof, file a defamation case against him so that people stop taking cheap shots at armed forces and ISI

JAG can't sue GEO, we need civilian lawyers in civilian courts for that and we all see what happens to our civilian lawyers, they ate heckled in courts by two bit judges who sell justice for peanuts and perks. It becomes a sadistic show of kicking a fallen giant, the chief doesn't want to see that happening.

 

[Hyperion]

Khudda kay achay banday, I know that your powers, just like for the rest of us have been curtailed, for one reason or the other... what I wanted to say there was, at least, call spade a spade....... don't compare situations as some cold statistics, most of us are well aware of the facts that what's happening to Punjabis, Pushtun, Baluchis............ Barelvis, Shia's.................... so on and so forth.. is all unjustified, by any definition of the word.....

Dude, you have no idea, how much it hurts to see any of our citizens, may they be of any religion or sect being persecuted by JUST ONE demon..... and we both know about the particular demon I'm talking about....

IB is absolutely right about most of his observations, he is just over sensitized a bit..........

I think my powers are being overestimated here. Sure, put me in a war zone and I will dispatch the bad guys but if the government fails to own up to the genocide, then there is no one in any agency that can act otherwise. We are bound by orders and unless we get orders from the military or civilian hierarchy, we can't just walk out and kill some bad guys. The intricacies of hierarchy may not be relevant in hollywood but real life is something else.

 

[Hyperion]

Welcome back mate.....
@muse