Italy, Egypt To Sign Mega Arms Deal Includes 24 Eurofighters, 24 M346 Trainers and 6 Frigates

[MMM-E]

Typhoon is a beast in air to air. Typhoon gives Egypt decisive edge over Turkey's F-16C.

Turks are not sleeping ..... Turkey always will have enough military power to protect its EEZ in the Eastern Mediterranean


-- Turkey bought S400 air defense Systems to block its EEZ against Fighter Jets

-- Turkish 1.000+ km BORA Ballistic Missiles and 1.000+ km GEZGIN land based Cruise Missiles to hit jet hangars in Egypt

-- by 2023 Turkish MIUS jet engine powered stealth UCAV will make first flight
and to carry AESA Radar + indigenous AKDOGAN long range air to air missile which is similar to METEOR

if no F35 , then stealth MIUS UCAV to carry even 280km SOM Cruise missile ( land attack/anti ship capabilities ) for SEAD/DEAD role or AKDOGAN long range air to air missiles for intercaptor role

Until 2025, Turkish EEZ will be dominated by air superiority Jet Drone MIUS armed with AKDOGAN long range air to air missiles + AESA Radar + data link

also Turkish IHA-SOJ electronic warfare Drone and IHA-AEWC will support them from safe distance

also Turkish AKSUNGUR UCAVs to carry SONOBOUYS and light torpedos to hunt enemy Submarines

also Turkish AKINCI UCAVs to carry 8x 250km KUZGUN joint strike munitions for swarm attack on Frigates

also 1.000+ km Turkish KARGI kamikaze Drone will be the bonus of all these systems with its impressive range and swarm flight detect/strike capabilities.



and , Turkey modernized 163 F-16s with national long range IFF and link16 data link for network centric warfare

also 35 F-16 block30s will be modernized with indiigenous mission computer , IFF , EW Systems and AESA Radar

also 60 F-16C are equiped with SPEWS-II self protection electronic warfare systems
also Turkish F-16s can carry indigenous SOM Cruise Missiles and long range guided Bombs

also in 2022 Turkish AESA Radar willl be ready for F-16 modernization

and 4 Boeing E7-T AEWCs with 4 HAVASOJ airborne stand off jammer Aircrafts will give technological advantage to the Turkish Airforce

 

[Wilhelm II]

Egypt has no national long range IFF for network centric warfare to coordinate American F16 , E-2, Russian MIG-29 , SU-35 , French Rafale with each others

only Radio communication ..... nothing else

all Egyptian F16s , E-2s , MIG-29s , SU-35s , Rafales use foreign IFF and electronic systems

You are so funny
Man turkey is not only country that make its own systems
You need to open your mind

 

[khanmubashir]

We don't know yet for sure until a credible announcement from either the Italy=ian government or Egyptian government which the latter will most certainly not say anything until it is pretty obvious that they are there or a deal is struck and announced by Italy. Just the way the Egyptian military operates.



Why? Please explain in details so we can see what you actually mean. Most people say that but never offer any actual and solid information to back that up. Just FYI, Egypt, prior to this amazing modernization operated US, French, Russian and Chinese fighters and did perfectly fine. So we have a lot of experience with much older jets that needed much more maintenance per hour of flight. These new machines are all digitally programmed for maintenance and are actually easier!



Why have only one platform that can carry the best missile out there. Having two platforms or more is MUCH more powerful. It's about strength as well as other reasons.



A couple of reasons: 1) The Italian mega deal was mostly for the awesome and incredible Berghamini FREMM frigates as well as opening a new relation with their arms procurement. The Italians are some of the BEST naval builders dating back to even before the Roman empire and this is only my opinion that has nothing official to back it up BUT, we bought the first ever export Mirage 2000s in 1986, 20 of them and now, I bet the number is even lower than 10 active ones and they were almost like a special operations unit. We would rarely see them and recently they've performed some major attacks in Sinai against ISIS and are very successful, and were ready to go into Libya had the Turks not backed off Sisi's Red Line, but they're old. They need replacement VERY SOON and I think instead of separating the Rafales (which are supposed to relieve pressure on the F-16s) they might just retire the 2000s and replace them with the Typhoons. Keep them at their own, dedicated base and use them for special operations and that shouldn't cause any logistical problems whatsoever and the diversity is a part of the plan. Why does the EAF have to be the same as others with only 3 different platforms? Our situation requires this type of offset in types and sources.

I could be completely wrong but most people don't realize that we had a rather large fleet of 4 different types of 4th gens and operated them perfectly fine. The Navy is doing the same thing but no one is complaining about that! lol

The issue isn't about having variety of jets but having multiple jets of similar capabilities in terms of range payload subsystems but still having to have seperate training and maintenance set-up
Jacking up procurement and operations costs
Instead large procurement of one type getting better deal from supplier and streamlining your operations is smarter way
Look as you gave example even prior with so much variety of jets Egyptian air force was considered lower then Israeli and Turkish air forces with much lower variety but more streamlined systems

 

[MMM-E]

And they removed the A70VLS because it was for the "Missile de croisiere naval"(MdCN) of 1200 km range.. They are still 16 Aster15 cells.. but now they have made a Scalp naval of 250 + km range.. just tested.. So Egypt might buy it and put it on its French Fremm in the place of the precedent one that was not MTCR compliant..

then what about SAMs ? only 8 x ASTER SAMs and 8x LACMs .... so pathetic

even 16 x ASTER SAMs are not enough to protect Frigate from swarm attack of 10 Turkish AKINCI UCAV's 80x KUZGUN joint strike munitions

Egyptian Navy 3 FREMM Frigates will carry 16x SAMs ..... on the other hand Turkish Navy 4 GABYA , 4 MEKO-200TM and 4 ISTIF class Frigates will carry 64x SAMs


even I am not talking about ongoing 7 TF-2000 class Destroyers with 64 cells VLS for 144x SAMs and 16x LACMs


Egyptian FREMM and MEKO-A200 Frigates will not change anything in the Eastern Mediterranean

 

[MMM-E]

You are so funny
Man turkey is not only country that make its own systems
You need to open your mind

ok show Me plaese Egyptian long range IFF for Egyptian F16s , MIG-29s , SU-35s and Rafales ... also for Air Defense Systems and for FREMM and MEKO-A200 Frigates


I am saying again , all Egyptian F16s , E-2s , MIG-29s , SU-35s , Rafales also Warships use foreign IFF and electronic systems ... btw what about datalink from American/French made F-16s - Rafales to Russian made MIG-29s and SU-35s for network centric warfare ?



its Turkish long range IFF with range of 460+ km ( only 7 countries in the world )
Aselsan IFF Mod5/S long range (friend or foe) Identification System

and Turkish F16s , Warships , etc use national long range IFF
Turkish electronic system can target Israel

 

[Wilhelm II]

ok show Me plaese Egyptian long range IFF for Egyptian F16s , MIG-29s , SU-35s and Rafales ... also for Air Defense Systems and for FREMM and MEKO-A200 Frigates


I am saying again , all Egyptian F16s , E-2s , MIG-29s , SU-35s , Rafales also Warships use foreign IFF and electronic systems



its Turkish long range IIF with range of 460+ km ( only 7 countries in the world )
Aselsan IFF Mod5/S long range (friend or foe) Identification System
View attachment 742324


and Turkish F16s , Warships , etc use national long range IIF
Turkish electronic system can target Israel

I'm not militarist but the SC and my other Arab brothers are
I have not shinny military knowledge but I trust the SC . His posts are not baseless like your claims

 

[MMM-E]

I'm not militarist but the SC and my other Arab brothers are
I have not shinny military knowledge but I trust the SC . His posts are not baseless like your claims

They also can not show anything about Egyptian long range IFF , datalink , EW Systems , etc for network centric warfare to coordinate American F16 , E-2, Russian MIG-29 , SU-35 , French Rafale with each others



Look our Arab brothers , We Turks can not understand what are you trying to do
You Arabs can not win a war with foreign weapons and systems

Egypt buys tons of weapons from The US,Russia,France,Germany,İtaly which can not work together in one integrated warfare network



even dont trust French and Americans

if Egypt buys all those weapons against İsrael , then waste money

in Falklands War , Argentina hit several British Warships with french EXOCET anti-shiip missiles

but NATO country United Kingdom took source codes of EXOCET missiles from NATO country France
and Argentina lost the Falklands War


even its not clear that France gives SCALP and METEOR Missiles to Egypt
even France and İtaly removed NETTUNO-4100 jamming system from Egyptian FREMMs

and Egypt will always depend on The US,Russia,France,Germany,İtaly


Egypt should develop its own weapons and systems to become real military power as like İsrael and Turkey

 

[Sinnerman108]

It is all computerized maintenance now.. much easier than before.. these are Tranch 3 and 4 we are talking about..So most of the previous problems have been fixed .. it is a good time to buy the Typhoons..

I am sorry, I think I was unable to illustrate the problem in adequate details.

 

[The SC]

The issue isn't about having variety of jets but having multiple jets of similar capabilities in terms of range payload subsystems but still having to have seperate training and maintenance set-up
Jacking up procurement and operations costs
Instead large procurement of one type getting better deal from supplier and streamlining your operations is smarter way
Look as you gave example even prior with so much variety of jets Egyptian air force was considered lower then Israeli and Turkish air forces with much lower variety but more streamlined systems

Having one type you make yourself is the best deal.. but you can't rely on one supplier to buy one type of weapon.. because of its experience Egypt knows what is best for it..

Turkey's airforce is weak and considered obsolete according to the latest international reports..

Usrael air force is stronger somehow than Egypt air force.. and that is due exactly to the issue of the BVR missiles that one supplier didn't want to provide Egypt with but provided Usrael with it..

Can you see now where the problem is with one supplier for one type..and the Egyptian experience ..

 

[The SC]

what do you think, meteor will come with the deal?

put it where? inside which cells? a43 cells?

Why dumb questions when you should know that if they removed the A70VLS..they can put it back..
And why Egypt would buy Rafale without Meteor..

 

[White and Green with M/S]

They also can not show anything about Egyptian long range IFF , datalink , EW Systems , etc for network centric warfare to coordinate American F16 , E-2, Russian MIG-29 , SU-35 , French Rafale with each others



Look our Arab brothers , We Turks can not understand what are you trying to do
You Arabs can not win a war with foreign weapons and systems

Egypt buys tons of weapons from The US,Russia,France,Germany,İtaly which can not work together in one integrated warfare network



even dont trust French and Americans

if Egypt buys all those weapons against İsrael , then waste money

in Falklands War , Argentina hit several British Warships with french EXOCET anti-shiip missiles

but NATO country United Kingdom took source codes of EXOCET missiles from NATO country France
and Argentina lost the Falklands War


even its not clear that France gives SCALP and METEOR Missiles to Egypt
even France and İtaly removed NETTUNO-4100 jamming system from Egyptian FREMMs

and Egypt will always depend on The US,Russia,France,Germany,İtaly


Egypt should develop its own weapons and systems to become real military power as like İsrael and Turkey

Its not that difficult either to develop New data links for various eastern and western fighters in Egyptian air force we did the same to develop indigenous data links for our Chinese ànd WESTERN fighters ànd integrate with our two AWACS Chinese ZDK-3 ànd swedish ERIEYE SAAB-2000 AWACS so our Chinese ZDK-3 can able to guide our f-16 as well as mirages similarly OUR SWEDISH ERIEYE SAAB-2000 AWACS can able to guide Chinese fighters in our inventory such as JFT/f-7

Ànd this data link system is called Link-17 data link system @MMM-E

 

[MMM-E]

Its not that difficult either to develop New data links for various eastern and western fighters in Egyptian air force we did the same to develop indigenous data links for our Chinese ànd WESTERN fighters ànd integrate with our two AWACS Chinese ZDK-3 ànd swedish ERIEYE SAAB-2000 AWACS so our Chinese ZDK-3 can able to guide our f-16 as well as mirages similarly OUR SWEDISH ERIEYE SAAB-2000 AWACS can able to guide Chinese fighters in our inventory such as JFT/f-7

Ànd this data link system is called Link-17 data link system @MMM-E

Yes Pakistani national data link system like link-17 can do it ...
Pakistani Airforce AWACS can able to guide Chinese origin JF-17 Fighters



Turkey will use national data link to guide GOKDOGAN and AKDOGAN air to air missiles for network centric warfare and cooperative engagement capabilities

for examples
Egypt bought SU-35 and Arabian members on PDF says KS-172 air to air missile designed as AWACS killer

Turkish MIUS UCAVs armed with GOKDOGAN or AKDOGAN air to air missiles can protect Boeing E7-T AEWCs from KS-172 air to air missiles on SU-35s


Thanks to national Missiles , Data link , AESA Radars and combat management systems able to share data and coordinate activity despite all the units

-- MIUS UCAV with AESA Radar
-- IHA-AEWC
-- 600 km EIRS early warning AESA Radar
-- 450 km CAFRAD naval AESA Radar
-- National data link
-- GOKDOGAN or AKDOGAN networked air to air missiles



so MIUS UCAVs to escort Boeing E-7T AEWC

and GOKDOGAN air to air missiles on MIUS UCAVs can intercept KS-172 air to air missiles on SU-35s which will engage on Boeing E-7T AEWC

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Egypt bought SU-35 and Arabian members on PDF says KS-172 air to air missile designed as AWACS killer

How can such small RCS target (KS-172) intercepted by your BVR, it impossible to do it, its not a Ballistic Missiles that have big RCS ,even USAF haven't that technology so they can intercept ANTI AWACS missiles WITH LET SUPPOSE AMRAAM, i doubt this tech, only defense for avoiding BVR is through electronics rather than hard kill methods like hit to kill missiles its viable against Big RCS targets like fighter/Bombers and for Ballistic Missiles but not applicable for BVR type target which have extremely low RCS

 

[MMM-E]

Turkey's airforce is weak and considered obsolete according to the latest international reports..

Turkey doesnt need old technologies like MIG-29 , Rafale , SU-35s which were bought by Egypt


in 2002 Turkey joined the JSF ( F35 ) program to buy 100+32 F-35s to replace F-4s and F-16 block30s
but treacherous The US is blocking transfer of F35s to Turkey since 2015

but if no F-35 ....no problem
Turkey focused on developing the TFX air superiority Fighter Jet by 2025 fiirst flight
until 2025 Turkish Airforce will have air superiority Jet Drone MIUS armed with AKDOGAN long range air to air missiles + AESA Radar + data link

Rafale and SU-35 will not change anything against Turkish Airforce when MIUS unmanned Fighter Jet enter service in 2025


Turkish Airforce by 2025 to become the most dangerest air force with Israeli Airforce in the region

-- 163 CCIP modernized F-16
-- 35 OZGUR modernized F-16
-- National AESA Radar for F-16 modernized
-- MIUS air superiority unmanned Fighter Jet
-- HURJET light attack Jet
-- AKINCI UCAV
-- IHA-SOJ
-- IHA-AEWC
-- 1.000+ km KARGI anti-radiation Missile
-- S400 Air Defense System
-- HISAR-A , HISAR-O , HISAR-U and SIPER Air Defense System
-- KORAL and REDET Radar Electronic Warfare Systems
-- 600/700 km EIRS early warning AESA Radars
-- 4 Boeing E7-T AEWC with 600km PESA Radar
-- 4 HAVASOJ stand off jammer Aircrafts

-- AIM-9x and BOZDOGAN WVR air to air missiles
-- AIM-120C7 and GOKDOGAN air to air missiles
-- AKDOGAN long range air to air missile .... similar to METEOR

-- 500 km SOM air launched Cruise Missile with indigenous KTJ-3200 turbojet engine

and other missiles/glide bombs like HARM , AKBABA , SLAM-ER , MRASHM , KUZGUN , JSOW , KGK-LR ,etc

 

[MMM-E]

How can such small RCS target (KS-172) intercepted by your BVR, it impossible to do it, its not a Ballistic Missiles that have big RCS ,even USAF haven't that technology so they can intercept ANTI AWACS missiles WITH LET SUPPOSE AMRAAM, i doubt this tech, only defense for avoiding BVR is through electronics rather than hard kill methods like hit to kill missiles its viable against Big RCS targets like fighter/Bombers and for Ballistic Missiles but not applicable for BVR type target which have extremely low RCS

its hard but not impossible to do it
if you have good Radars , network centric warfare and cooperative engagement capabilities

its like air based Air Defense System ... to intercept even stealth/low RCS targets


Turkey has developed 600+ km EIRS early warning AESA Radar to detect even stealth/low RCS targets from very long ranges

KS-172 Missile
length : 6 m
weight : 748 kg
diameter : 40 cm

KS-172 missile will flight at high altitude to engage on Boeing E7-T AEWC
and many Radar Systems will watch on the Eastern Mediterranean

-- Boeing E7-T AEWC's 600km PESA Radar in the sky
-- 600 km EIRS early warning AESA Radar on the ground
-- 450 km CAFRAD naval AESA Radar on TF-2000 class Destroyers

Long range Radars will detect KS-172 missile and to share it via data link
MIUS UCAVs which will escot Boeing E7-T AEWC will fire GOKDOGAN networked air to air missile to intercept upcoming air to air missile or anti-radiation missile

also to intercept Cruise Missiles from AKINCI UCAVs which will be in the sky 7/24

its hard but not impossible to do it