Italy could release conversation in which PM Narendra Modi allegedly asked for information on Sonia

[Nimitam]

You may understand that nobody in italy cares about what you or any indian thiks either. So its a fair deal.

This is the sensitive field of international politics. Evry actio leads to reactio.

Its in both nations interest not to escalate this,

It is good no one in Italy cares about what Indians think. It will help keep their nose out of our affairs.

The murderous Action of the marines have brought about this Reaction in the sensitive field of international politics. I am in complete agreement with you.

Also I agree that both nations interest lies in not escalating this. Which is why SC is running the trial and will pass judgement based on the crime.

 

[MarkusS]

Defense?
Like I asked, would your marines do the same to American Fisherman near US?

The whole defense fiasco has been shot.

If Italians are so concerned about doing the right thing, then, let the law take it's course.

OR

Just say we want to protect our RACIST soldiers, no matter what...and proceed.

BUT

don't preach..

this is not about law but about diplomacy.

It is good no one in Italy cares about what Indians think. It will help keep their nose out of our affairs.

The murderous Action of the marines have brought about this Reaction in the sensitive field of international politics. I am in complete agreement with you.

Also I agree that both nations interest lies in not escalating this. Which is why SC is running the trial and will pass judgement based on the crime.

no, as your defense minister said, a deal was already reached. Its in the last steps and he will be home soon. Our PM Renzi talked with Modi about this and they agreed about this.

It is good our nations found an agreement and i hope this is solved soon.

 

[DesiGuy1403]

this is not about law but about diplomacy.

Then perhaps it would be prudent for Italians to remember that it was Indians that died at the hands of Italians and not the other way around.

It is good our nations found an agreement and i hope this is solved soon.

There is not much govt can do once the case reaches court. Govt can try as much as it wants, if Indian courts do not agree to the proposal, there is absolutely nothing our govt can do.

 

[SrNair]

Our media already said that Modi asked for illegal informations about his rivals in india...infos that italy has.

I´m quite sure that our 2nd marine will be home within a few weeks as our minister Pinotti said in TV. The deal between Italy and India is already done and kept under the rug for a few days.

The Hague court decided that Italy and India should deal this case according to law and that our marine should be send home immeadiately.

I dont think it will be necessary to publish bad informations about Modi since both nations italy and india signed the hague agreement and will act accordingly to the courts decission.

Evryone knows that we know alot of dirty secrets from india ut it would be foolish to make them public now if we can find an agreement with friendly behavior.

And yes, the meeting between our PM and Modi was taped ;P

And what you gonna do with that dirty secrets ?
Fate of that marine would hang in thread if Italy tries for something smarter .
Your politicians did that a few years ago and two committed guards faced the consequences .

Politicians in India is even smarter than that .If Italy do something like that they will create pan Indian patriotism feelings and will finish Italy's business in India.Like that happened to FinMeccanica and Agusta Westland

I dont get whats your problem. The court in haue ordered that he is send back italy. Both india and italy accept the court in hague. So i dont see whyy we should leak this. This was just made public to speed things up a bit.

Our defense minister already said he will be back home within the next weeks and just some last buerocratic things must be done and all is fine.

This is an important issue for italy and the sooner this is solved the better for both nations.

here the court ruled few days ago that he must be send to italy. your own emdia make it public

http://www.thehindu.com/news/intern...rticle8547444.ece?topicpage=true&topicId=1338

Politicians and media are famous in saying stuffs that wont work .

this is not about law but about diplomacy.



no, as your defense minister said, a deal was already reached. Its in the last steps and he will be home soon. Our PM Renzi talked with Modi about this and they agreed about this.

It is good our nations found an agreement and i hope this is solved soon.

Sorry ,GoI cant do anything about it .They dont have any role in a subject that is at the hands of SC.

 

[MarkusS]

Then perhaps it would be prudent for Italians to remember that it was Indians that died at the hands of Italians and not the other way around.



There is not much govt can do once the case reaches court. Govt can try as much as it wants, if Indian courts do not agree to the proposal, there is absolutely nothing our govt can do.

That is not true. We already have an agreement. Our defense minister said we made a deal and he will be back in a few weeks. I´m sure india stands by its words.

Beside that we see it as an accident. Italy said it will pay compensations to the families involved and they have agreed to accept the compensation. This doesnt bring anyone back but at least it helps.

And what you gonna do with that dirty secrets ?
Fate of that marine would hang in thread if Italy tries for something smarter .
Your politicians did that a few years ago and two committed guards faced the consequences .

Politicians in India is even smarter than that .If Italy do something like that they will create pan Indian patriotism feelings and will finish Italy's business in India.Like that happened to FinMeccanica and Agusta Westland



Politicians and media are famous in saying stuffs that wont work .



Sorry ,GoI cant do anything about it .They dont have any role in a subject that is at the hands of SC.

They can. We reached a deal and he will be back soon. Also italy never said it would release any dirty secrets. Why should we? We already have a deal and this would only hurt our interests.

Releasing any info now would be bad. We just wait a few weeks and he is back and all will be fine.

 

[SrNair]

That is not true. We already have an agreement. Our defense minister said we made a deal and he will be back in a few weeks. I´m sure india stands by its words.

Beside that we see it as an accident. Italy said it will pay compensations to the families involved and they have agreed to accept the compensation. This doesnt bring anyone back but at least it helps.




They can. We reached a deal and he will be back soon. Also italy never said it would release any dirty secrets. Why should we? We already have a deal and this would only hurt our interests.

Releasing any info now would be bad. We just wait a few weeks and he is back and all will be fine.

Good Luck
But only if our SC agrees.

 

[Hyperion]

Excellent arguments. Btw, are you an Advocate?

Societies that honour murderous psychopaths are primitive, so the jury is already out on that.

Societies that seek justice are far more evolved, but I guess you are not aware of such concepts.

I am telling you that GoI has no power under the constitution to make such a deal, so I have to guess you have been misled by your media and politicians. Not really our problem.

A fishing boat with a maximum speed of 8 knots cannot 'speed' towards a Tanker with a maximum speed of 14 knots. Only a cold blooded psychopath will consider such a slow moving boat an 'terror attack'. Especially since they were visibly unarmed.

The 'successful' defence was against a bucket of dead fishes on a wooden boat against a Steel Ship with armed marines. No doubt that is what passes for 'heroism' in some societies, but then again that is your problem. Not ours.

As for the Italian marine who risked their life to rescue dozens of Indian sailors from somalian pirates, good for them. I hope you gave them all medals and treated them as heroes.

USS Cole was in Harbour and anchored when it was attacked by a fast moving fiber glass boat. Your example does not fit.

But for the record, the fishing boat did not receive any warning, and even if they had, they did not have to react to warning, since they had right of way as per Marine law. The Captain of the Ship is on record saying that no warnings were given.

If the marines made a mistake, they will now pay for that mistake.

It may be unfortunate, so now let them deal with the result of that unfortunate incident as per the Law.

There is every reason to seek Justice for the murder of Indian Citizens. The Stress of Italian marine is not our concern. They are not our citizens.

I am seriously saying that I do not care what Italy thinks and I am pretty certain no body in India cares. You are in no position to either 'allow' or 'not allow' us. At most you can 'protest' peacefully.

The solution is to finish the trial and punish the marines if they are found guilty. That is the most peaceful solution.

 

[MarkusS]

Good Luck
But only if our SC agrees.

A government decides and a court stands under diplomacy. We have a deal and india promised to do what it is oblieged to do regarding this deal.

legal things can be settled later.

 

[SrNair]

A government decides and a court stands under diplomacy. We have a deal and india promised to do what it is oblieged to do regarding this deal.

legal things can be settled later.

Well an Italian teaches an Indian about India's own Constitution and laws .
Funny isnt it ?

There is certain things GoI can do or cant do .

 

[Immortan.Joe]

italy never said it would release any dirty secrets.

What is this deal about dirt secret that you are repeating ad-nauseum?

If you people have any dirty secrets ,they are bound to be on Sonia who is an opposition leader, not on people who are in government.

I don't even comprehend how could a threat of "releasing dirty secrets" even work! The government would be like "sure go ahead; you are only destroying our opposition".

And asking info on Sonia ,considering that it had even happened and this convicted crook is not lying, is not even a kindergarten level bad behaviour. Only thing that Italy would achieve by releasing private conversation between head of state (which btw never happened as these kind of deals ,if made, are always done by people who are not part of government), is lower its diplomatic standing.

 

[tsinga]

It is good no one in Italy cares about what Indians think. It will help keep their nose out of our affairs.

The murderous Action of the marines have brought about this Reaction in the sensitive field of international politics. I am in complete agreement with you.

Also I agree that both nations interest lies in not escalating this. Which is why SC is running the trial and will pass judgement based on the crime.

That is not true. We already have an agreement. Our defense minister said we made a deal and he will be back in a few weeks. I´m sure india stands by its words.

Beside that we see it as an accident. Italy said it will pay compensations to the families involved and they have agreed to accept the compensation. This doesnt bring anyone back but at least it helps.




They can. We reached a deal and he will be back soon. Also italy never said it would release any dirty secrets. Why should we? We already have a deal and this would only hurt our interests.

Releasing any info now would be bad. We just wait a few weeks and he is back and all will be fine.

Excellent arguments. Btw, are you an Advocate?

Both of you are arguing needlessly. The decision has to be made by the Supreme Court. Arguing on what should be done on an online forum is pointless.

Marcus, just so you understand, if the Government of India promised to Italy that he won't get death penalty, then Indian Government is lying. The decision rests with the Supreme Court and for better or worse, the Judiciary in India is separate from the Government and the Government of India has no power over what Judgements the Courts delivers in any direction.

That said, it is unlikely that the Judiciary will give him death penalty because only cases that fall under 'rarest of rare' category- generally ones which incite massive social outrage- are awarded Death penalty. This case, by no stretch of imagination falls under the rarest of rare category.

 

[Immortan.Joe]

And what you gonna do with that dirty secrets ?
Fate of that marine would hang in thread if Italy tries for something smarter.

The deal ,if there is one, is bound to be on lines of India allowing marines to flee, while Italy lifts its veto on Indian membership in MTCR. We do not need MTCR membership for any practical purpose, but our membership in MTCR would gives us a bargaining chip for negotiations of UNSC permanent seat and NSG membership against China (China is not yet a member of MTCR, and Indian application is in much advanced stage than that of China).

This dirty secret think @MarkusS is repeating is stupid. Italians are bound to know dirty secrets of Sonia, which currnt government would want to be made public.

Marcus, just so you understand, if the Government of India promised to Italy that he won't get death penalty, then Indian Government is lying. The decision rests with the Supreme Court and for better or worse, the Judiciary in India is separate from the Government and the Government of India has no power over what Judgements the Courts delivers in any direction.

Technically, Govt/Public prosecutor could do so by asking for lesser punishment, and if court does not oblige, there is always option of commutation by President/Government.

 

[MarkusS]

Reality is that Italy was always friendly with india. We did never do any harm to india and infact had always friendly relations.

Italy even helped india to get acess to many institutions.

Evrybody knows and understands that NO nation ever will abandon its own military staff. Nobody is left behind. And evryone understands that this case is toxic.

It only creates further anger and stallment.

Reality is that india was blocked to get any agreement with EU within the last 4 years. Italy blocked MTCR entry for india. Italy blocked free trade between EU and India. India blocked our Agusta deal and damaged our export deals.

This helps noone and has to end.

A bad mistake was done and because of this 2 people lost their life. After this both nations made more mistakes in dealing with this.

Italian marines saved many people life including indians in somalia who were held as hostages by pirates.

I think our nations must find a way to solve this and no court can do this. Your government can make a pardon and our defense minister said this will happen in the next weeks.

I think its no shame to admitt when mistakes were done. I believe PM Renzi should visit India and try to normalize relations.

Nobody here can be interested in bad blood between our nations and i think all nationalistic rhetoric aside most of you agree.

 

[DesiGuy1403]

A bad mistake was done and because of this 2 people lost their life. After this both nations made more mistakes in dealing with this.

Italian marines saved many people life including indians in somalia who were held as hostages by pirates.

These 2 marines making a mistake is not a reflection on all Italian Marines.

The only people complicating the matter is the Italians. You should have kept your noses down, made quite and discrete negotiations and supported India's cause in "certain" matters.

Problem now is, this case has become too visible and emotional to just quietly let it go.
May be this would be a lesson for nations to know when to keep the head down.

 

[SrNair]

Reality is that Italy was always friendly with india. We did never do any harm to india and infact had always friendly relations.

Italy even helped india to get acess to many institutions.

Evrybody knows and understands that NO nation ever will abandon its own military staff. Nobody is left behind. And evryone understands that this case is toxic.

It only creates further anger and stallment.

Reality is that india was blocked to get any agreement with EU within the last 4 years. Italy blocked MTCR entry for india. Italy blocked free trade between EU and India. India blocked our Agusta deal and damaged our export deals.

This helps noone and has to end.

A bad mistake was done and because of this 2 people lost their life. After this both nations made more mistakes in dealing with this.

Italian marines saved many people life including indians in somalia who were held as hostages by pirates.

I think our nations must find a way to solve this and no court can do this. Your government can make a pardon and our defense minister said this will happen in the next weeks.

I think its no shame to admitt when mistakes were done. I believe PM Renzi should visit India and try to normalize relations.

Nobody here can be interested in bad blood between our nations and i think all nationalistic rhetoric aside most of you agree.

Look dude .
We also want good relation with Italy .Of Course it is yours nation duty to protect your soldiers but our nation duty is to give justice to two poor fishermens.
And I was just saying about the complications of law in our system .GoI cant bypass SC .It is a fact and that is the law .
I dont think no govt dares to reaches such a deal when they have situations like this.
MTCR or trade ,common Indians or their medias wont care about such stuffs .Those are additional goals of Indian establishment to establish their own powerdom in this world .But that is just a forcemultiplier not necessity
Deal or not we can see within few weeks if there is anything like that