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It’s a shame Pakistan is hoodwinking India

equiliz3r

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Indo-Pakistan Foreign Secretary level February 2010 talks, which were supposed to break the deadlock and goad Pakistan to take action against terrorists in Pakistan, have ended in a deadlock. Pakistan has described the dossiers of terrorists in Pakistan given by India as a piece of literature and a fiction. Falling foul on India, the Pakistani leader of the delegation said Pakistan does not believe that India should lecture us and demand that Pakistan should do this or that.

THERE is a justifiable frustration, disappointment and rage over the repeated terrorist attacks sponsored by Pakistan on Indian soft targets. In its efforts, it is aided and abetted by the motley Indian groups, who are known by various names, like Indian Mujahdeen, Lashkar or students organisations of Muslim communities. They are sympathetic to Pakistan and to motley terrorist organisations there. Most terrorists, their masters and sympathisers, are confident that inadequate, outdated Indian laws would enable them to have escape routes galore. Perhaps they are not mistaken. How can you have any independent witness present, when army is fighting the terrorists from across the border in the thick forests or at great heights in the mountain?

Even assuming that one is present, nobody is that stupid to come and depose in the court and risk his limbs and life from the dreaded terrorists or their supporters. It is applicable not only in the cases of terrorists, but also all the disruptionist and separatist elements like the Naxalites or Maoists or the groups of North East. It is a outrageous and an unbelievable logic and the highest degree of self-flagellation, that does not put the victims and his perpetrator on an equal footing.

India’s problems and their solutions lie in India. India has been pleading and begging Pakistan all the time to control its terrorists. Now it wants Saudi Arabia’s help. Are we so weak that we cannot make the cost of terrorism so prohibitive in terms of life, money and intrusion, that anybody entering the country with a nefarious objective, should not only think twice but hundred times before entering the country. This can be done by finishing them at the entry point.

It is true that democracy should respect the law and go by a legal system. But a question to be asked is what law the terrorists observe except the law of killing the civilians and security forces, at any conceivable chance they can get.

It is true that Indian police, in most states, enjoy a reputation of being trigger happy and cutting corners in collecting evidence or taking short cuts for the disposal of the cases by disposing off the criminals. But it is also true that police like millions of countrymen feel frustrated when the known terrorists or criminals get away on purely technical grounds thus undoing all the labour put in.

Indo-Pakistan Foreign Secretary level talks, which were supposed to break the deadlock and goad Pakistan to take action against terrorists in Pakistan, have ended in a deadlock. Pakistan has described the dossiers of terrorists in Pakistan, given by India as a piece of literature and a fiction. Falling foul on India, the Pakistani leader of the delegation said Pakistan does not believe that India should lecture us and demand that Pakistan should do this or that.

It is one of the ridiculous approaches, as whenever, any negotiations are held, each side puts across what it wants others to do. The world all over believes that Pakistan is the fountain of terrorism and has been running both with the hunter and the hunted.

Pakistan’s foundations rest on the hatred of India, particularly the majority of Indians that is Hindus. First total ethnic cleansing was done in Pakistan in driving out the non-Muslims from that country, followed by doing the same in Kashmir valley by its agents. There cannot be half heartedness in fighting terrorism and terrorists.

When it is a question of survival of the country, one can learn lessons from some other countries like Israel. It is believed that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu authorised Mossad, the country’s spy agency to kill senior Hamas commander Mahmoud al-Mahbouh in Dubai in November 2009. There were no tears shed in Israel by any Human Rights-wallahs there.

Incidentally all such operations all over the world are authorised by the political executive, though no official records exist for the same. Israelis have built up a reputation of tracking down and assassinating terrorists no matter wherever they may be hiding in the world.

There can be no fullproof collection of intelligence or discovering all the local contacts and sleeper cells of the terrorists or their supporters.

The only option left is to pay the terrorists in their own coin and pay them with compound interest wherever they may be. This is what exactly USA has done or is doing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Pakistan has always either directly undertaken or used motley groups of jihadis or disgruntled Indian groups, including the gangsters, as an element of its state policy.

Covert operations in the interests of the country are undeclared policy of all countries all over the world. India’s record on covert operations has been colourless or nil. Instead of fighting or acting against terrorism, we have been only reacting to it and never made sure that the terrorists get the retribution they deserve. Terrorism is not going to end by sweet talk at any level. Prime Minister himself has admitted that India does not know as to whom to talk in Pakistan. He indicated that there are so many power centres that talking to one and getting a commitment might and would be undone by others.

Theoretically, there is a Government in Pakistan, but in actual practice the dilemma of the Prime Minister is genuine. Our self-respect demands that we should stop begging Pakistan to control terrorists in its country. Instead our message should be to them "Do your worst, but do not blame us, you reap what you sow".

What we do within our own borders, should be our outlook. But above all we should mean business in tackling terrorism and take this battle to its logical end. The security and intelligence forces can do it, only if the Government wills it and means it. Talks and sweet talks can succeed only if we talk from a position of strength. Smile, for everyone lacks self-confidence and more than any other one thing a smile reassures them.

(The writer is former Director of CBI India)
 
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Organiser - Content

Indo-Pakistan Foreign Secretary level February 2010 talks, which were supposed to break the deadlock and goad Pakistan to take action against terrorists in Pakistan, have ended in a deadlock. Pakistan has described the dossiers of terrorists in Pakistan given by India as a piece of literature and a fiction. Falling foul on India, the Pakistani leader of the delegation said Pakistan does not believe that India should lecture us and demand that Pakistan should do this or that.

THERE is a justifiable frustration, disappointment and rage over the repeated terrorist attacks sponsored by Pakistan on Indian soft targets. In its efforts, it is aided and abetted by the motley Indian groups, who are known by various names, like Indian Mujahdeen, Lashkar or students organisations of Muslim communities. They are sympathetic to Pakistan and to motley terrorist organisations there. Most terrorists, their masters and sympathisers, are confident that inadequate, outdated Indian laws would enable them to have escape routes galore. Perhaps they are not mistaken. How can you have any independent witness present, when army is fighting the terrorists from across the border in the thick forests or at great heights in the mountain?

Even assuming that one is present, nobody is that stupid to come and depose in the court and risk his limbs and life from the dreaded terrorists or their supporters. It is applicable not only in the cases of terrorists, but also all the disruptionist and separatist elements like the Naxalites or Maoists or the groups of North East. It is a outrageous and an unbelievable logic and the highest degree of self-flagellation, that does not put the victims and his perpetrator on an equal footing.

India’s problems and their solutions lie in India. India has been pleading and begging Pakistan all the time to control its terrorists. Now it wants Saudi Arabia’s help. Are we so weak that we cannot make the cost of terrorism so prohibitive in terms of life, money and intrusion, that anybody entering the country with a nefarious objective, should not only think twice but hundred times before entering the country. This can be done by finishing them at the entry point.

It is true that democracy should respect the law and go by a legal system. But a question to be asked is what law the terrorists observe except the law of killing the civilians and security forces, at any conceivable chance they can get.

It is true that Indian police, in most states, enjoy a reputation of being trigger happy and cutting corners in collecting evidence or taking short cuts for the disposal of the cases by disposing off the criminals. But it is also true that police like millions of countrymen feel frustrated when the known terrorists or criminals get away on purely technical grounds thus undoing all the labour put in.

Indo-Pakistan Foreign Secretary level talks, which were supposed to break the deadlock and goad Pakistan to take action against terrorists in Pakistan, have ended in a deadlock. Pakistan has described the dossiers of terrorists in Pakistan, given by India as a piece of literature and a fiction. Falling foul on India, the Pakistani leader of the delegation said Pakistan does not believe that India should lecture us and demand that Pakistan should do this or that.

It is one of the ridiculous approaches, as whenever, any negotiations are held, each side puts across what it wants others to do. The world all over believes that Pakistan is the fountain of terrorism and has been running both with the hunter and the hunted.

Pakistan’s foundations rest on the hatred of India, particularly the majority of Indians that is Hindus. First total ethnic cleansing was done in Pakistan in driving out the non-Muslims from that country, followed by doing the same in Kashmir valley by its agents. There cannot be half heartedness in fighting terrorism and terrorists.

When it is a question of survival of the country, one can learn lessons from some other countries like Israel. It is believed that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu authorised Mossad, the country’s spy agency to kill senior Hamas commander Mahmoud al-Mahbouh in Dubai in November 2009. There were no tears shed in Israel by any Human Rights-wallahs there.

Incidentally all such operations all over the world are authorised by the political executive, though no official records exist for the same. Israelis have built up a reputation of tracking down and assassinating terrorists no matter wherever they may be hiding in the world.

There can be no fullproof collection of intelligence or discovering all the local contacts and sleeper cells of the terrorists or their supporters.

The only option left is to pay the terrorists in their own coin and pay them with compound interest wherever they may be. This is what exactly USA has done or is doing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Pakistan has always either directly undertaken or used motley groups of jihadis or disgruntled Indian groups, including the gangsters, as an element of its state policy.

Covert operations in the interests of the country are undeclared policy of all countries all over the world. India’s record on covert operations has been colourless or nil. Instead of fighting or acting against terrorism, we have been only reacting to it and never made sure that the terrorists get the retribution they deserve. Terrorism is not going to end by sweet talk at any level. Prime Minister himself has admitted that India does not know as to whom to talk in Pakistan. He indicated that there are so many power centres that talking to one and getting a commitment might and would be undone by others.

Theoretically, there is a Government in Pakistan, but in actual practice the dilemma of the Prime Minister is genuine. Our self-respect demands that we should stop begging Pakistan to control terrorists in its country. Instead our message should be to them "Do your worst, but do not blame us, you reap what you sow".

What we do within our own borders, should be our outlook. But above all we should mean business in tackling terrorism and take this battle to its logical end. The security and intelligence forces can do it, only if the Government wills it and means it. Talks and sweet talks can succeed only if we talk from a position of strength. Smile, for everyone lacks self-confidence and more than any other one thing a smile reassures them.

(The writer is former Director of CBI India)

What absolute BS. Leaving all the nonsense aside which by the way resembles the Indian mentality and the delusional people constantly mislead by its sarkar and jingoism media, What ethnic cleanisic has been done in pakistan? Has the author forget the ethinc cleanisic being done in incredible India? First the sikhs in operation blue star, then the shahdat of babari mosque, the Gujrat massacre. It would be nice to see the mirror once in a while to realize that the incredible India isnt that incredible after all.
 
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What absolute BS. Leaving all the nonsense aside which by the way resembles the Indian mentality and the delusional people constantly mislead by its sarkar and jingoism media, What ethnic cleanisic has been done in pakistan? Has the author forget the ethinc cleanisic being done in incredible India? First the sikhs in operation blue star, then the shahdat of babari mosque, the Gujrat massacre. It would be nice to see the mirror once in a while to realize that the incredible India isnt that incredible after all.

Changing of Pakistans minority population from over 20% in 1947 to under 3% today.
Also, Official descrimination against non-muslims in Islamic Republic of Pakistan through blasphemy and hudood laws.


At the time of Partition in 1947, the Hindu population of Pakistan was estimated at approximately a quarter of the total population. For example, the population of Karachi, Pakistan in 1947 was 450,000, of which 51% was Hindu, and 42% was Muslim. By 1951, Karachi’s population had increased to 1.137 million because of the influx of 600,000 Muslim refugees from India. In 1951, the Muslim population of Karachi was 96% and the Hindu population was 2%. In 1998, the Hindu population in all of Pakistan was 1.60%, and the most recent census would certainly be expected to demonstrate consistent demographic trends and a further diminution in the Hindu population.

Since Pakistan declared itself an Islamic nation and pursued a decidedly Islamic course in its political and social life since the 1980s, Hindus as a minority in Pakistan have had considerably fewer privileges, rights and protections in comparison to minorities in India, which constitutionally avows itself secular and giving of equal rights to its religious minorities including the Muslim, Christian and Sikh communities. Cultural marginalization, discrimination, economic hardships and religious persecution have resulted in many Hindus converting to other religions (Islam, Christianity), and today Hindus constitute barely 1.8% of Pakistan's population. Because Hindus are not "People of the Book" like Christians, they have generally been given fewer rights informally (de facto) by the Muslim majority than the country's Christians (see Dhimmi), even if de jure Hindus have equal rights under the law.

Almost no Hindu holds any public position of significance in government, military, business, or society. Government regulations and laws shaped by Islamic Sharia injunctions discriminate against the Hindu minority as well as other minorities in Pakistan. Section 295-C of the Pakistan penal code mandates the death sentence for blasphemy against the Prophet or desecration of the Koran. Dozens of blasphemy cases are pending in the courts, and the accused spend long periods in jails under brutal conditions once the accusation has been made, although most such allegations of desecration are the result of personal grudges. On March 24, 2005, Pakistan restored the discriminatory practice of mandating the mention of religious identity of individuals in all new passports.

Hindus continue to be the target of kidnappings, rape, and intimidation in Pakistan. Sapna Giyanchand was taken to a shrine in the Shikarpur District by Shamsuddin Dasti, a Muslim married man and father. The custodian of the shrine, Maulvi Abdul Aziz converted Sapna to Islam, changed her name to Mehek, and married her to Dasti. When Sapna’s case was presented in court, Muslim extremists deluged her with rose petals and chanted religious sayings. Sapna, terrified by the setting, could not manage to speak to her parents, who were also present in court. Aziz, also in attendance, is claimed to have said, “How can a Muslim girl live and maintain contact with kafirs [non-believers of Islam]?”
 
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Changing of Pakistans minority population from over 20% in 1947 to under 3% today.
Also, Official descrimination against non-muslims in Islamic Republic of Pakistan through blasphemy and hudood laws.

Also will you be kind enough to provide credible link for this??
 
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What absolute BS. Leaving all the nonsense aside which by the way resembles the Indian mentality and the delusional people constantly mislead by its sarkar and jingoism media, What ethnic cleanisic has been done in pakistan? Has the author forget the ethinc cleanisic being done in incredible India? First the sikhs in operation blue sta.

aahhhhh writer is a sikh:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
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:bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny:

The writer is saying INDIA should not hold talks.

So who is begging you bwahahaha

former directior CBI can be that idiot i neve knew and understandable why you could not find solution to your security issues.
 
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:b

The writer is saying INDIA should not hold talks.

So who is begging you bwahahaha

former directior CBI can be that idiot i neve knew and understandable why you could not find solution to your security issues.
:blah::blah::blah::blah::blah:

and may I ask why Pakistan's citizens are dying because of terrorism if they have more brilliant minds than Indians?
 
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Trust me you can Not find such an idiot in Jalalabad ;)

Oh Jana, that Jalalabad is in our side of Punjab. And I dont doubt his intelligence at all. He's quite gutsy. I think he was the first to open up corruption cases against a number of politicians.
 
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very true sir...joginder singh really has guts to do so....quite popular at that time..
 
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Changing of Pakistans minority population from over 20% in 1947 to under 3% today.
Also, Official descrimination against non-muslims in Islamic Republic of Pakistan through blasphemy and hudood laws.

You know I am not someone who is into India vs Pak thing but that article and this so called ethnic cleansing that is blamed on Pak is baseless and sounds more like propoganda.

Now lets answer your question, 1947 stats cannot be used becuase of mass migration of hindus towars india. Lets use 1950 for a better comparison shall we as it was when the migration and internal deisplacemt was over. There were 39,448,232 people in Pakistan and a total of 6.54 milllion hindus, of which 5.4 million left for India.

http://ksghome.harvard.edu/~akhwaja/papers/The%20Big%20March%20December%202005.pdf

Now Pakistan was left with 1.1 million from whom half were unfortunately killed from Muslims who heard of killing in India of other Muslims.

So by that account 500,000 hindus were left and today they are higher than 4 million, percentage does not matter becuase muslim population boomed and there were alot of immigrants who entered Pakistan.

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Islamic Revelution Against Terrorism: Did Hindu Population Decrease to 3% in Pakistan?

Similarly we have many hindus who serve in our civil service and have reached great heights.

Rana Bhagwandas was Chief Justice, Deepak Perwani our biggest designer is a hindu and many others.

This propaganda qnd hate against Pakistan by Indians on the internet is very alarming and projects a bad image.

Just read the comments on this Times of India article about hindu MP's and you will see how shocked they are that there are hindu MP's and 4 million hindus in Pakistan.

Pak Hindu MPs stage walkout over terror slur - Pakistan - World - The Times of India

I am truly shocked at the level of animosity that is being shown towards us, I myself am from a minority but I know that minorities suffer in even the best of countries. Now you wonder why Pakistan does not want to be friends with you.

:angry:
 
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You know I am not someone who is into India vs Pak thing but that article and this so called ethnic cleansing that is blamed on Pak is baseless and sounds more like propoganda.

Now lets answer your question, 1947 stats cannot be used becuase of mass migration of hindus towars india. Lets use 1950 for a better comparison shall we as it was when the migration and internal deisplacemt was over. There were 39,448,232 people in Pakistan and a total of 6.54 milllion hindus, of which 5.4 million left for India.

http://ksghome.harvard.edu/~akhwaja/papers/The%20Big%20March%20December%202005.pdf

Now Pakistan was left with 1.1 million from whom half were unfortunately killed from Muslims who heard of killing in India of other Muslims.

So by that account 500,000 hindus were left and today they are higher than 4 million, percentage does not matter becuase muslim population boomed and there were alot of immigrants who entered Pakistan.

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Islamic Revelution Against Terrorism: Did Hindu Population Decrease to 3% in Pakistan?

Similarly we have many hindus who serve in our civil service and have reached great heights.

Rana Bhagwandas was Chief Justice, Deepak Perwani our biggest designer is a hindu and many others.

This propaganda qnd hate against Pakistan by Indians on the internet is very alarming and projects a bad image.

Just read the comments on this Times of India article about hindu MP's and you will see how shocked they are that there are hindu MP's and 4 million hindus in Pakistan.

Pak Hindu MPs stage walkout over terror slur - Pakistan - World - The Times of India

I am truly shocked at the level of animosity that is being shown towards us, I myself am from a minority but I know that minorities suffer in even the best of countries. Now you wonder why Pakistan does not want to be friends with you.

:angry:

Thanks for your analysis mate. Good point, bringing out that 1950 figure. I agree with you. 1950 could be a better date for comparison.

However regarding propaganda and hate, I guess its a two way street. Just type in Babri, Operation bluestar on the PDF search tab and you will get a better idea on who bashed whom on minority rights.
 
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