Israel steps up security ties with China

[Speaker]

Nations follow their own National interests. China will deal with any nation that will further China's interest. The Muslim world needs to unify and make it more attractive for China to have better relationship with the 1.5 Billion Muslims. When that happens China will drop the 5 million Israelis like a hot Potato. This is all about Dollars and Yuans. A united 1.5 Billion Muslims can be a great incentive for any Nation to rethink its strategy. Look at what NATO has been able to accomplish as a block. Today, they impose crippling sanctions against Muslim nations to destroy their economy. If the 50+ Muslim Nations use their Resources to impose Sanctions against Western countries all this Israeli foolishness will end overnight. What is needed is political will.

How is it that when Indians say the same then we are termed cunning, evil Hindu Baniyas whereas the Chinese who are supposed to be your all-weather friends get away? All countries should, must and will always act in their interest. Pretending otherwise is misplaced and foolish.

 

[Pakistanisage]

What you are missing here is that destroying Israel is NOT Allah's will. Allah is protecting Israel. Can't you see that? Muslim nations, if they were to follow your advice, would be defeated by Allah and their peoples sent to h3ll.

I really dont have the time nor the inclination to argue with a ZIONIST TROLL. Nobody believes that BULL**** about GOD's Chosen people. In case you suffer from Dimentia, remember Hitler killed few hundred thousand in the 1940's. Where was the Divine help , then GENIUS.

Dude...what is the point in making in bold and high lighted part....If you want to live in future then you are welcome...The statement what you have mentioned might have mentioned thousand times in Friday prayers of religious sermons that " If All muslims unite then the world will on their toes".....But you guys forget ...the reality is different...That does not mean that i donot want Muslims to unite....I believe culturally and socially all religious grouping will happen in future. But in international geo politics it is nevergoing to happens....There is a simple example....in your Karachi...first unite people from different sects of Muslim people itself..then you aspire for religion based consolidation.....And it is not only for Muslim countries only...It is applicable for all religions...

Keep living in your dream land with your head burried in the sand. We have our 200 milion of our Brothers in your country to sort you all out. Just wait and you will feel the wrath of God, soon.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

How is it that when Indians say the same then we are termed cunning, evil Hindu Baniyas whereas the Chinese who are supposed to be your all-weather friends get away? All countries should, must and will always act in their interest. Pretending otherwise is misplaced and foolish.

Umm... because China and Pakistan are allies, whereas India is an enemy?

People are naturally more favourable to their friends, and harsh on their enemies. This is a fact of life.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Umm... because China and Pakistan are allies, whereas India is an enemy?

People are naturally more favourable to their friends, and harsh on their enemies. This is a fact of life.

Thank you Chinese-Dragon, you took the words from my mouth. I was about to post exactly the same comment but you beat me to it. It is like you read my mind.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

So you mean to say - "You don't need them". You took a long way to pass a small message..

Dude, Israeli systems are one of the best in the world and many times better than what China can ever think of producing and believe me India is buying because they know what Israelis products are capable of.. You will be better off buying their products/systems..

Give me some specifics here. We haven't been interested since 1998. 1998's a long time ago for China. 1 year = 5 years here.

 

[Beast]

So you mean to say - "You don't need them". You took a long way to pass a small message..

Dude, Israeli systems are one of the best in the world and many times better than what China can ever think of producing and believe me India is buying because they know what Israelis products are capable of.. You will be better off buying their products/systems..

Sorry, probably you indian has a weak domestic production and far lower tech. We China has already able to produce far better electronic and higher technology thanks to our dual use of semi conductor market and huge R&D pour in with nurture of our local talent....

The AESA for our own AWACS plus a whole range of EW plane and destroyer produced domestically prove that...



We don't need Israel to advance. In fact, they see China rising and wanted to get near us... ISrael always has tendency to cling near super power.

 

[jbond197]

Sorry, probably you indian has a weak domestic production and far lower tech. We China has already able to produce far better electronic and higher technology thanks to our dual use of semi conductor market and huge R&D pour in with nurture of our local talent....

The AESA for our own AWACS plus a whole range of EW plane and destroyer produced domestically prove that...



We don't need Israel to advance. In fact, they see China rising and wanted to get near us... ISrael always has tendency to cling near super power.

I don't know what you understood from my post but let me tell you I was comparing your production capability with Israel not India.. Also whether to keep ties or buy from Israel will not be decided by you, it is, was and always will be CCP. You got no voice, so forget it.. There are thinking caps in CCP and they will surely opt for Israeli products..

Funny, as an Indian, I am trying to be Israeli products salesman to Chinese..

 

[Beast]

I don't know what you understood from my post but let me tell you I was comparing your production capability with Israel not India.. Also whether to keep ties or buy from Israel will not be decided by you, it is, was and always will be CCP. You got no voice, so forget it..

I am telling you a fact, not my decision... There is a reason why we are number 2 world economies power.

Israel can offer us what? LOL.. 10 yrs ago, we maybe still interested but in 2012, they have nothing advance enough to offer us.

Even Russia offer to sell 50 Su-35 and even our leader say ' Sorry, no thanks! Its not up to standard for our requirement."

 

[Vritra]

Israel can offer us what? LOL.. 10 yrs ago, we maybe still interested but in 2012, they have nothing advance enough to offer us.

Well, Israel have an AEW&C system of contemporary technology: we've discussed this in another thread, that it is unlikely the KJ-200/2000 can match its performance. They have a missile defence system with higher kill probability on targets of all speed+size profiles. They have integrated and external EW/ECM suites of superior quality, and considering that the Chinese have had access largely to Russian equivalents and very few western ones, a system like the EL/L-8251 would be a great acquisition. They have AESA radars with cross-platform applicability. Yes, I know, the Chinese have supposedly developed their own. Superiority: doubtful, even with larger aperture. Israel have developed active protection systems for their tanks, modular automated turret systems for vehicles and ground-based applications, etc. etc. etc. And the tactical experience of the Israelis is invaluable, seeing as very few nations see the same sort of daily urban and agrarian combat against multiple types of hostiles.

Even the PLA is willing to admit that they could use Israeli help with technology and military training. So your opinion about Israel having "nothing advance enough to offer us" directly contradicts the actions of your government and your armed forces.

Even Russia offer to sell 50 Su-35 and even our leader say ' Sorry, no thanks! Its not up to standard for our requirement."

And yet, Russian engines of previous generation design have to be imported. Not up to standards, indeed.

 

[Beast]

Well, Israel have an AEW&C system of contemporary technology: we've discussed this in another thread, that it is unlikely the KJ-200/2000 can match its performance. They have a missile defence system with higher kill probability on targets of all speed+size profiles. They have integrated and external EW/ECM suites of superior quality, and considering that the Chinese have had access largely to Russian equivalents and very few western ones, a system like the EL/L-8251 would be a great acquisition. They have AESA radars with cross-platform applicability. Yes, I know, the Chinese have supposedly developed their own. Superiority: doubtful, even with larger aperture. Israel have developed active protection systems for their tanks, modular automated turret systems for vehicles and ground-based applications, etc. etc. etc. And the tactical experience of the Israelis is invaluable, seeing as very few nations see the same sort of daily urban and agrarian combat against multiple types of hostiles.

Even the PLA is willing to admit that they could use Israeli help with technology and military training. So your opinion about Israel having "nothing advance enough to offer us" directly contradicts the actions of your government and your armed forces.



And yet, Russian engines of previous generation design have to be imported. Not up to standards, indeed.

That is just yr bias view... So as the author who post this article. What can Israel offer in technology? Lol..

We can even design and build our constellation satelite and GPS system. We have also demonstrated our own missile defence shield and not to mention ASAT.

As for the engine, the Russian are selling us good price for the engine and why shall china refused. We have a huge appetite for engine. The 123 Al-31FN is just nice to supplement our domestic engine.

If our domestic engine is no good. Our J-11B will be grounded by now but true is its running fine , all thanks to our domestic WS-10a engine.

 

[Vritra]

That is just yr bias view... So as the author who post this article. What can Israel offer in technology? Lol..

I believe I did already list what Israel can offer in terms of technology, and you've conveniently ignored half of what I wrote.

As for me being "bias": do tell me how you've arrived at that conclusion. I've merely pointed out that even your government, the CPC, apparently do not agree with your views, considering they are pursuing better ties with Israel on a military and social front. I suppose I'll have to elaborate.

We can even design and build our constellation satelite and GPS system. We have also demonstrated our own missile defence shield and not to mention ASAT.

Being able to build and launch satellites is undoubtedly impressive, but several nations without the capacity to put them into orbit have achieved similar satellite coverage through the simple act of renting cargo on an outbound rocket launched by a friendly nation. You can call it whatever you like, but that's a pretty intelligent way of going about things.

As far as your "missile defence shield" is concerned, most of your air defence systems are based off of Russian/Soviet origin weapons. The more modern ones are modified S-300 Gargoyle/Giant systems, and the KS-1 isn't even close to as advanced as the Israeli Green Pine, let alone a system like Iron Dome. The KS-1 utilizes a passive phased array system of limited detection and tracking range, unlike the Green Pine, which uses an active phased array radar with about double the tracking range of your KS-1, and superior tracking numbers.

Then there are multiple systems which are copies of the American "Avenger" and "Hawk" systems, the French "Croatle" SAM system (1970s tech, that one), Italian "Aspide" system, etc. etc. etc. So yes, you have "missile defence shields", but considering the antiquity of half the systems, and the lower efficiency of the newer ones, its a bit rich to dismiss Israeli systems as "inadequate".

As for the engine, the Russian are selling us good price for the engine and why shall china refused. We have a huge appetite for engine. The 123 Al-31FN is just nice to supplement our domestic engine.

And yet, a huge appetite hasn't caused China to go abroad for suplamentary production before. You wanted more J-11s, so you just started producing them inhouse. You needed carrier fighters, so you did it, once again, wihtin your own nation. And suddenly you're unable to produce enough engines to slake your thirst for jet engines? No, there's something else at work here.

If our domestic engine is no good. Our J-11B will be grounded by now but true is its running fine , all thanks to our domestic WS-10a engine.

Right, and you do realise that the Al-31FN is the version of the Saturn engine specifically modified to use on the J-10, don't you? I am actually inclined to believe that the engine works due to evidence of it running posted on other threads. But the engine apparently has enough deficiencies to prevent a J-10 installation. Sure, test flights have been performed, but following them, the decision seems to have been made to limit the installation on the twin-engined J-11Bs instead.

And do you have evidence corroborating your claim that the engines are "running fine"? Are they spooling up efficiently? Is the engine able to maintain the required pressure, and inlet temperature? Is the thrust generated at a sufficient rate to match or surpase the performance of the AL-31 series? Do enlighten me, I'm eager to know more.

 

[E Pencho]

Paks think chin is its all weather friend. Paks even say that the enemy of chin is our enemy.

And then see what chin has done to paks!

 

[500]

Israel training some chinese anti terro policeforce in Magav Instruction base since December 2011 till now.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

I believe I did already list what Israel can offer in terms of technology, and you've conveniently ignored half of what I wrote.

As for me being "bias": do tell me how you've arrived at that conclusion. I've merely pointed out that even your government, the CPC, apparently do not agree with your views, considering they are pursuing better ties with Israel on a military and social front. I suppose I'll have to elaborate.



Being able to build and launch satellites is undoubtedly impressive, but several nations without the capacity to put them into orbit have achieved similar satellite coverage through the simple act of renting cargo on an outbound rocket launched by a friendly nation. You can call it whatever you like, but that's a pretty intelligent way of going about things.

As far as your "missile defence shield" is concerned, most of your air defence systems are based off of Russian/Soviet origin weapons. The more modern ones are modified S-300 Gargoyle/Giant systems, and the KS-1 isn't even close to as advanced as the Israeli Green Pine, let alone a system like Iron Dome. The KS-1 utilizes a passive phased array system of limited detection and tracking range, unlike the Green Pine, which uses an active phased array radar with about double the tracking range of your KS-1, and superior tracking numbers.

Then there are multiple systems which are copies of the American "Avenger" and "Hawk" systems, the French "Croatle" SAM system (1970s tech, that one), Italian "Aspide" system, etc. etc. etc. So yes, you have "missile defence shields", but considering the antiquity of half the systems, and the lower efficiency of the newer ones, its a bit rich to dismiss Israeli systems as "inadequate".



And yet, a huge appetite hasn't caused China to go abroad for suplamentary production before. You wanted more J-11s, so you just started producing them inhouse. You needed carrier fighters, so you did it, once again, wihtin your own nation. And suddenly you're unable to produce enough engines to slake your thirst for jet engines? No, there's something else at work here.



Right, and you do realise that the Al-31FN is the version of the Saturn engine specifically modified to use on the J-10, don't you? I am actually inclined to believe that the engine works due to evidence of it running posted on other threads. But the engine apparently has enough deficiencies to prevent a J-10 installation. Sure, test flights have been performed, but following them, the decision seems to have been made to limit the installation on the twin-engined J-11Bs instead.

And do you have evidence corroborating your claim that the engines are "running fine"? Are they spooling up efficiently? Is the engine able to maintain the required pressure, and inlet temperature? Is the thrust generated at a sufficient rate to match or surpase the performance of the AL-31 series? Do enlighten me, I'm eager to know more.

All I have to say is this: there are 2 countries with midcourse ballistic missile interception capabilities. US and China. Midcourse ballistic missile interception is defined as an exoatmospheric collision event between a ballistic missile, and another missile launched at a geographically separated point.

You are confusing theater ballistic missile defense (which is the low efficiency low tech 80's era school of thought one) with the much more difficult, much higher tech midcourse missile defense that the US and China are working on.

2010 Chinese anti-ballistic missile test - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Where did PLA admit that they needed anything from Israel lol? It was added in by an Indonesian writer. As for KJ-2000 vs. Phalcon, both use an AESA, unlike the E-3.

What's more is that while China has significant naval construction capabilities, Israel has literally zero in this area. Many things from naval areas can be modified for aerospace use, such as radars can be miniaturized.

 

[Speaker]

Umm... because China and Pakistan are allies, whereas India is an enemy?

People are naturally more favourable to their friends, and harsh on their enemies. This is a fact of life.

Thanks - in case you didn't realize, my question was rhetorical. I was merely trying to highlight the hypocrisy, no malice intended.