Israel and the New Middle East - All There is to Know

[nirreich]

@nirreich

May I ask you two questions please?

What would you like to see in the Middle East nowadays? Beside the controversial Iranian nuclear program of course.
What should Israel do in the next coming decades?

Thanks

I would like to see a complete change in the political culture in the region, which is centered around the values of pluralism and tolerance. Unfortunately, none of the current Arab societies in the Middle East have these values.

Israel is expected to do the same thing it had done since its independence, and that is to maintain its development in any aspect of human life and continue to aspire to be one of the leading countries in the world. In parallel, Israel will continue to preserve its capabilities to defend itself in the violent neighborhood it is located and will continue to minimize its links with the Palestinians - and of course let them to control themselves (like Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005).

 

[Falcon29]

^^^^

Let me paraphrase what the Zionist said:

1. We want you to leave your religion and culture and give up any thoughts of having a state for your people's but also forget our criminal history.

2. We want to be the economics, political, and military leader in the region and we won't accept any neighbor surpassing us in these fields or the agreement is void. We want more power and we want to start dictating issues in your countries.

3. We will keep increasing our military strenght and continue drills against the same people we claim to accept a two state solution with but your side has to be disarmed so in the future we could use an excuse to reoccupy the land and control your borders because we've been fooling you guys the whole time and it's our culture to take land by force which we believe was ours thousands of years ago.

People, don't be fooled by these foreigners, they just word their statements in an intelligent way so you couldn't really understand their intentions. Or so they can modify their statements and sub modify each one until you stay confused. He wants to leave us to guess. He's not being straightforward which means him and his people are the most dishonest and untrustworthy people on the planet.

 

[Controlled Pair]

^^^The American needs to concentrate on eating apple pie instead of pretending he's involved in the middle east conflict.

 

[Falcon29]

We did win.

The problem is, Arabs always count defeats as victories.

Israel set the bar with the 6 day war.

Now if Israel doesn't beat them in 24 hours, they declare victory. Like the Gaza conflict last year. 130 pals dead, mostly terrorist. Lots of destruction and hell for Pal civilians.

Egypt mediates peace.

Hamas have victory parades.


This is why unfortunately, the next Arab initiative against Israel (and there will be one) Israel need to bomb them back into the stone age. No ceasefires forced on us by Europe. No UN meddling.

If we are attacked, we unleash hell.

We still won't 'win' in their eyes. Even if there is only one Arab left, this is a victory for them. It's their mentality.

But we have to make them understand that attacking us exacts a massive price.

160 dead with 85-95 civilians killed and around 70-75 resistance fighters killed. But the facts wouldn't prevent you from lying either way.

 

[nirreich]

^^^^

Let me paraphrase what the Zionist said:

1. We want you to leave your religion and culture and give up any thoughts of having a state for your people's but also forget our criminal history.

2. We want to be the economics, political, and military leader in the region and we won't accept any neighbor surpassing us in these fields or the agreement is void. We want more power and we want to start dictating issues in your countries.

3. We will keep increasing our military strenght and continue drills against the same people we claim to accept a two state solution with but your side has to be disarmed so in the future we could use an excuse to reoccupy the land and control your borders because we've been fooling you guys the whole time and it's our culture to take land by force which we believe was ours thousands of years ago.

People, don't be fooled by these foreigners, they just word their statements in an intelligent way so you couldn't really understand their intentions. Or so they can modify their statements and sub modify each one until you stay confused. He wants to leave us to guess. He's not being straightforward which means him and his people are the most dishonest and untrustworthy people on the planet.

For your information, I replied to direct questions of a member in this forum, and this was my intention.

As for your claims that my answers were not clear enough, you can ask for elaborations and I will be more than happy to provide them.

And as for your ridiculous accusation that ulterior motives hide behind my answers, I can only say that contrary to you, I have much better things to do that to be obsessed with hatred. I want Israel to be a strong country in every aspect like other people wish the same for their countries, and I hardly want Israel to be more involved in the region. On the contrary: the lesser Israel has ties to the Arab societies around it the better.

 

[Falcon29]

^^^The American needs to concentrate on eating apple pie instead of pretending he's involved in the middle east conflict.

Says the Briton living in the UK....

For your information, I replied to direct questions of a member in this forum, and this was my intention.

As for your claims that my answers were not clear enough, you can ask for elaborations and I will be more than happy to provide them.

And as for your ridiculous accusation that ulterior motives hide behind my answers, I can only say that contrary to you, I have much better things to do that to be obsessed with hatred. I want Israel to be a strong country in every aspect like other people wish the same for their countries, and I hardly want Israel to be more involved in the region. On the contrary: the lesser Israel has ties to the Arab societies around it the better.

Don't worry, don't hide in your closet shell. I know how you think. What I said is exactly what many Israelis expect. And your government thinks otherwise, but, ill spare you that.

 

[nirreich]

Says the Briton living in the UK....



Don't worry, don't hide in your closet shell. I know how you think. What I said is exactly what many Israelis expect. And your government thinks otherwise, but, ill spare you that.

What a presumption to know what I think. It seems you do not know much about Israel. I do not hide from anyone and least of all from you. You can try me.

 

[Falcon29]

What a presumption to know what I think. It seems you do not know much about Israel. I do not hide from anyone and least of all from you. You can try me.

I do know israel, I've lived with Israelis when they were in occupied Gaza. Before they withdrew I used to live in Gaza. Generally many have a ignorant mindset towards the peace plan due to them believing its 'Eretz Israel' anyway. International law doesn't apply to them so it doesn't matter to them. They will conintue obstructing a chance and already have for refusing to remove settlers from some areas of the West Bank. The mentality that the land belongs to them kind of contradicts their want for peace. Just as you would claim that Muslims believing all of modern day Israel and Palestine is Islamic land would contradict a peace plan. You can't have it both ways. But Israelis have a very one sided approach and ignore their part to it. Of course then comes the leftist Israelis who have some kind of rational.

 

[nirreich]

Most of Israelis are ready to partition of the land and to the establishment of a Palestinian State. Offers were made again and again by Israeli government to withdraw from almost all the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Israel already withdrew from Gaza and evacuated the settlements from there. Hence your argument that Israel wants to control the Palestinian was disproved more than once. Israel does not want to control them nor to annex them, most of Israelis wants a disengagement process from the Palestinians.

 

[Falcon29]

Most of Israelis are ready to partition of the land and to the establishment of a Palestinian State. Offers were made again and again by Israeli government to withdraw from almost all the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Israel already withdrew from Gaza and evacuated the settlements from there. Hence your argument that Israel wants to control the Palestinian was disproved more than once. Israel does not want to control them nor to annex them, most of Israelis wants a disengagement process from the Palestinians.

54% of Israelis believe it is not possible. It doesn't matter if 52 % of Israeli theoretically favor a independent Palestinian state. And I've heard that line before. I won't even get into it.

Israel Hayom | Israelis want two-state solution, but don't believe it will happen

Those so called 'offers' you claim still had to pass the Knesset which was unlikely to happen. But they also were not realistic at all, lets just look at the Olso Accords alone. Israel disregarded most of the agreement and we all saw where it was heading, just a slower occupation. But the same end results that Israel tries to achieve.

 

[eddieInUK]

We did win.

The problem is, Arabs always count defeats as victories.

Israel set the bar with the 6 day war.

Now if Israel doesn't beat them in 24 hours, they declare victory. Like the Gaza conflict last year. 130 pals dead, mostly terrorist. Lots of destruction and hell for Pal civilians.

Egypt mediates peace.

Hamas have victory parades.


This is why unfortunately, the next Arab initiative against Israel (and there will be one) Israel need to bomb them back into the stone age. No ceasefires forced on us by Europe. No UN meddling.

If we are attacked, we unleash hell.

We still won't 'win' in their eyes. Even if there is only one Arab left, this is a victory for them. It's their mentality.

But we have to make them understand that attacking us exacts a massive price.

You did win in the past, whats the next plan by you guys ? Any national strategy in details ?

 

[nirreich]

54% of Israelis believe it is not possible. It doesn't matter if 52 % of Israeli theoretically favor a independent Palestinian state. And I've heard that line before. I won't even get into it.

Israel Hayom | Israelis want two-state solution, but don't believe it will happen

Those so called 'offers' you claim still had to pass the Knesset which was unlikely to happen. But they also were not realistic at all, lets just look at the Olso Accords alone. Israel disregarded most of the agreement and we all saw where it was heading, just a slower occupation. But the same end results that Israel tries to achieve.

You conveniently ignore from the substance of the Israeli offers which clearly stated the creation of a Palestinian State and an Israeli withdrawal from most of the West Bank (and Israel already withdraw from Gaza).

We can all guess what would happen in the Knesset until the cows come home, but all the other agreements which included withdrawals - Oslo, Gaza - were approved by the Knesset like the Withdrawal from the Sinai Peninsula as part of the peace agreement with Egypt.

And you ignore that the Israeli offers did not materialize because the Palestinians have continued to refuse to that Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish nation state and insist on the right of return for refugees into Israel (not to the future Palestinian State).

 

[Falcon29]

You conveniently ignore from the substance of the Israeli offers which clearly stated the creation of a Palestinian State and an Israeli withdrawal from most of the West Bank (and Israel already withdraw from Gaza).

We can all guess what would happen in the Knesset until the cows come home, but all the other agreements which included withdrawals - Oslo, Gaza - were approved by the Knesset like the Withdrawal from the Sinai Peninsula as part of the peace agreement with Egypt.

And you ignore that the Israeli offers did not materialize because the Palestinians have continued to refuse to that Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish nation state and insist on the right of return for refugees into Israel (not to the future Palestinian State).

Israel had no right to occupy Gaza, that's not a concession, that's obeying international law. They withdrew because the Palestinian people forced them out. Now since you refer to Olso, putting aside your previous 'offers' that wouldn't have passed the Knesset, we already saw how the Olso Accords didn't play out as Israel said they would. Internal government disagreements contradicted the agreement. You claim it didn't materialize due to non recognition of Israel. So do israelis. But in reality that's so far from the truth, the PA recognized Israel and that was whom the agreement was with. Regardless, that's a horrible excuse your kind comes up with. It actually didn't materialize because you refused the sovereignty of Palestinians, you didn't allow them independent status and you continued settlement construction and war threats. C'mon, your propaganda has to be better than that. Even after the PA did recognize israel the Israelis would come up with next step to de legitimize our right to independence. It makes no difference.

 

[Controlled Pair]

Israel had no right to occupy Gaza, that's not a concession, that's obeying international law.

Israel had every right to occupy Gaza as this was used to attack Israel.

Israel's occupation of Gaza was legal, as was the occupation of the West Bank.

 

[Falcon29]

Israel had every right to occupy Gaza as this was used to attack Israel.

Israel's occupation of Gaza was legal, as was the occupation of the West Bank.

Legal....also disputed....by the........(drumroll).....ISRAELIS! .....