Israel Again Refuses to Apologize for Attack on Turkish Ship

[blain2]

Does your post make sense ?? Unfortunately no.

so you mean to say if the Israeli forces had done that in Gazan territorial waters then that is right ?? In a naval blockade of a nation what difference does a territorial or a international water make. Dont they become redundant ??

Its bad enough to take over the territorial waters of the Palestinians under any pretext, but what is worse is that this bungled-up operation was conducted in International waters where Israelis have no jurisdiction whatsoever. I do not think my post was that difficult to understand.

Rather it makes the 'Aid-delivering-charade' more comical. If Egypt had eased the blockade why not deliver the aid supplies though Egypt ?? What was the necessity for this adventure ?

This charade was no different than your Gandhi-ji carrying out hunger strikes against the British. It is a form of dissent to let the Israelis know that they cannot continue to occupy Ghazzan waters by means of force and get away with it. Going by your point about the necessity, maybe Gandhi should have just sat at home and the British would have left of their own accord.

The scratching of each others' backs is fine, just realize that on the moral compass, you are way off. Stick to the basics which is that you will do ever it takes to support Israel because they will help you. Beyond that their is no other frankness in your posts.

The suppressed/oppressed will only remain so temporary. We saw that in 1971, you will see it through in Kashmir and the Israelis will have their own reckoning in the Palestinian territories.

 

[BackStabber]

so,indians these days are pro-israel..even they are more radical than the religious freaks in israel

Dont know about others, But I am with Israel on this. I still feel the activists should have cooperated rather than trying their unique way of peace ( attacking with metal rods)

 

[KS]

Its bad enough to take over the territorial waters of the Palestinians under any pretext, but what is worse is that this bungled-up operation was conducted in International waters where Israelis have no jurisdiction whatsoever. I do not think my post was that difficult to understand.

When the same international waters were used to deliver weapons to Hamas, a terrorist group, then it is in Israel's interest to enforce a blockade.

This charade was no different than your Gandhi-ji carrying out hunger strikes against the British. It is a form of dissent to let the Israelis know that they cannot continue to occupy Ghazzan waters by means of force and get away with it. Going by your point about the necessity, maybe Gandhi should have just sat at home and the British would have left of their own accord.

Sorry its but a specious argument. If Gandhiji had done this in Britain then your analogy is ok. But he did that in India where the British had no business being in the first place. But it is not the case here. The international waters were used to smuggle weapons to Hamas and so Israel is fully within its rights to defend itself 'by whatever means' possible.

The scratching of each others' backs is fine, just realize that on the moral compass, you are way off. Stick to the basics which is that you will do ever it takes to support Israel because they will help you. Beyond that their is no other frankness in your posts.

The suppressed/oppressed will only remain so temporary. We saw that in 1971, you will see it through in Kashmir and the Israelis will have their own reckoning in the Palestinian territories.

Morality ??!! what is that doing in today's world.

I will tell you that I dont care for morals in protecting my country's interests and a patnership with Israel is one such thing. Morals can take a hike.

And regards Kashmir, it will meet the fate of IRA or Tibet or Basque separatists. Wait and see.

 

[Archdemon]

So your point is it's allright to kill any activist that goes to near danger zone, even if they think they might get hurt.

When they becomes violent what else you expect? not once they were told they heading into military blockade area and asked to change their course, when military tried to prevented to change course thy attacked the soldiers who initially tried to resist with paintball gun but situation escalated and the result is well known.

 

[blain2]

And regards Kashmir, it will meet the fate of IRA or Tibet or Basque separatists. Wait and see.

63 years and counting..the dissent is alive and self-sustaining. How much more time do you need to suppress it? The reality is that you cannot. Not sure what I am waiting for?

I will tell you that I dont care for morals in protecting my country's interests and a patnership with Israel is one such thing. Morals can take a hike.

Its a two way street. If morals take a hike on your end, don't expect those against oppression to hold on to their morality either.

 

[KS]

63 years and counting..the dissent is alive and self-sustaining. How much more time do you need to suppress it? The reality is that you cannot. Not sure what I am waiting for?

We have never tried to 'supress' it in the first place. I am assuming the word 'supress' in the same context as a Tianmen square, or supressing uprisings in Tibet, Xinjiang etc.

Its a two way street. If morals take a hike on your end, don't expect those against oppression to hold on to their morality either.

Fine, so all is fair in war and Israel is doing just that. So what are discussing about ?

 

[blain2]

I think I was pretty clear on what my pov is and you on yours. You may not consider your dealings with Kashmiris as suppression or oppression, yet many Kashmiris in the valley feel both and view them as such. Had they not felt this way, the kashmiri youth would not be out on the streets pelting your security personnel.

Obviously you will disagree but in any case I don't want to derail this thread with talk of Kashmir.

 

[PAFAce]

David Ben-Gurion, the founding leader of Israel, said this before the 1939 uprising:
"Let me first tell you one thing: It doesn't matter what the world says about Israel; it doesn't matter what they say about us anywhere else. The only thing that matters is that we can exist here on the land of our forefathers. And unless we show the Arabs that there is a high price to pay for murdering Jews, we won't survive."

This is a diplomatic way of condoning and encouraging disproportionate response. The idea was, if they kill 2 of yours, kill 20 of theirs and burn their homes. That's what they did in 1948 and have been doing ever since. Operation "Cast Lead" was a perfect example. It does not matter who you kill, as long as it's the other guys. Ben-Gurion founded this policy, and people like Ariel Sharon and Benjamin Netanyahu expanded it.

Not only is this a violation of human rights, this is a violation of the principles of Judaism itself. But it's worked for them, and they've got the backing to do whatever they want. So, unless Turkey and Israel's neighbors grow a pair, there isn't much point expecting anything from Israel.

 

[Cerian]

When they becomes violent what else you expect? not once they were told they heading into military blockade area and asked to change their course, when military tried to prevented to change course thy attacked the soldiers who initially tried to resist with paintball gun but situation escalated and the result is well known.

This is not a zoo. We can argue all day long whether operation was legitimate or not, but one thing is clear. IDF screwed up the operation from the start, thats a fact I guess we all can agree on.

Thats correct. Many on that ship were violent terrorists supporters.

Definition of terrorism actually means group of people fighting for their political agenda. So, if this so called "terrorist supporters" (group Israel officials mentioned from Hamas to Al-Qaeda) they must be terrorists also. They tried to deliver aid, hell I will even throw this one, they tried to support Hamas so that's why they have no distinction between bus bombers. Hmm, what else. Oh, Israel allows food delivery into Hamas controlled Gaza, which is a terrorist organisation accepted by US, UK and Israel. Hamas benefits from this "aid" which means Israel, which is supported by US, indirectly supported a terrorist organisation. So now State of Israel became supporters of terrorists.

These are all words of a mad man right? Well, that's what I think when Netanyahu and others call Marmara activists "terrorists" or supporters of terrorists who may or may not have linked to Al-Qaeda.

 

[Solomon2]

David Ben-Gurion, the founding leader of Israel, said this before the 1939 uprising -

I thought we had had enough of faked, misused, or out-of-context quotes here. It seems I was wrong.

Ben Gurion was THE champion of Arab-Jewish coexistence. He only got tough very reluctantly, and that was in 1948 after formerly pro-Jewish Arab leaders told him that as long as Arab terrorists were targeting them personally for cooperation with the Zionists, they would not keep to their agreements to work with the Jews; it was too dangerous. (i.e., Jews don't kill innocent Arabs, but Arabs do.)

The quote is from 1953, not 1939. Ben-Gurion was referring to the controversial revenge attack by the Israelis upon the village of Qibya; dozens of Israelis had been killed by infiltrators from Jordanian-held territory (the West Bank was illegally occupied by Jordan at the time) over the previous five years, and Israelis wanted it to stop.

Although the immediate outcome of the raid was greater cooperation with Jordan to prevent future incidents, the response of the Israeli leadership was to mostly reject Ben-Gurion's statement and pursue policies that did not purposely target civilians - and this has indeed been Israel's policy since.

 

[PAFAce]

Ben Gurion was THE champion of Arab-Jewish coexistence. He only got tough very reluctantly, and that was in 1948 after formerly pro-Jewish Arab leaders told him that as long as Arab terrorists were targeting them personally for cooperation with the Zionists, they would not keep to their agreements to work with the Jews; it was too dangerous. (i.e., Jews don't kill innocent Arabs, but Arabs do.)

I don't know about how reluctant he was, I cannot be a judge of his feelings. However, his policies speak for themselves, so let's go by that. They point quite clearly to the fact that he was only a champion of Arab-Jewish coexistence as long as it was as per Israel's definition of "coexistence". By your logic I could claim that Yassir Arafat, too, was a champion of Arab-Jewish coexistence in the region, but only by his own definition of "coexistence" (which was far more legal, mind you, in that all the PLO really wanted was for the illegal Jewish immigrants to return home and to allow the Arabs to return to their homes).

The quote is from 1953, not 1939. Ben-Gurion was referring to the controversial revenge attack by the Israelis upon the village of Qibya; dozens of Israelis had been killed by infiltrators from Jordanian-held territory (the West Bank was illegally occupied by Jordan at the time) over the previous five years, and Israelis wanted it to stop.

Fair enough, the date was wrong. However, the revenge attack was carried out, and the response was disproportionate. Doesn't take away anything from the message, does it? That still goes on today, whether in Operation Cast Lead or the murder on-board the Turkish vessel.

Although the immediate outcome of the raid was greater cooperation with Jordan to prevent future incidents, the response of the Israeli leadership was to mostly reject Ben-Gurion's statement and pursue policies that did not purposely target civilians - and this has indeed been Israel's policy since.

The response of only a few. There is a video of the debate that took place in the Israeli "parliament", you should Google it.

 

[500]

Definition of terrorism actually means group of people fighting for their political agenda.

No, terrorists are thought who target civilians during fight for their political agenda. Therefore Hamas is terrorist organization. Hamas is no better than PKK or those who blow up people in Pakistan.

So, if this so called "terrorist supporters" (group Israel officials mentioned from Hamas to Al-Qaeda) they must be terrorists also.

LOL strange statement. If I support Real Madrid it does not make me a footballist nor even a Spanish.

They tried to deliver aid

They could easily do it through Israeli or Egyptian port. Their purpose was not deliever aid but support of Hamas regime.

hell I will even throw this one, they tried to support Hamas so that's why they have no distinction between bus bombers.

They tried to support Hamas, but still there is way to go from support to actual murder.

Hmm, what else. Oh, Israel allows food delivery into Hamas controlled Gaza, which is a terrorist organisation accepted by US, UK and Israel. Hamas benefits from this "aid" which means Israel, which is supported by US, indirectly supported a terrorist organisation. So now State of Israel became supporters of terrorists.

These are humanitarian needs for population that is hijacked by Hamas.

 

[Cerian]

No, terrorists are thought who target civilians during fight for their political agenda. Therefore Hamas is terrorist organization. Hamas is no better than PKK or those who blow up people in Pakistan.


LOL strange statement. If I support Real Madrid it does not make me a footballist nor even a Spanish.


They could easily do it through Israeli or Egyptian port. Their purpose was not deliever aid but support of Hamas regime.


They tried to support Hamas, but still there is way to go from support to actual murder.


These are humanitarian needs for population that is hijacked by Hamas.

You missed the whole purpose of the post.

 

[monitor]

A traditional criminal will never like to apologize . isriel is the icon of state run terrorism and cheating

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

A traditional criminal will never like to apologize . isriel is the icon of state run terrorism and cheating

and one of the qualifications to become the PM in Israel is the have blood of innocent Muslims on one's hands...

Sharon, Barak you name it, they ve done it...

Israel... the biggest terrorist entity in the world... after the United States...