Israel Again Refuses to Apologize for Attack on Turkish Ship

[Archdemon]

and one of the qualifications to become the PM in Israel is the have blood of innocent Muslims on one's hands...

Sharon, Barak you name it, they ve done it...

Israel... the biggest terrorist entity in the world... after the United States...

Olmert? Bibi? they have modest military past

 

[500]

Olmert? Bibi? they have modest military past

Shimon Peres and Golda Meir never served in army at all, Moshe Sharet served only as translator in Turkish army

 

[monitor]

According to your logic those who blow up buses and indicriminately fire rockets at civilian neighborhoods are good guys and those who fight them are criminals?

Yes those are criminal and terrorist who blow up civilian bus by suicide attack and the good human being and innocent are who killed 1300 women and children by smart bomb and destroyed the civilian houses with missile attack . good judgment .

 

[500]

Yes those are criminal and terrorist who blow up civilian bus by suicide attack and the good human being and innocent are who killed 1300 women and children by smart bomb and destroyed the civilian houses with missile attack . good judgment .

Only 4% of killed Palestinians are females. If Hamas was not using human shields tactics percent would be zero.

 

[Jigs]

Only 4% of killed Palestinians are females. If Hamas was not using human shields tactics percent would be zero.

Please you killed 1 militant for every 4 civilians the majority being children. Stop blaming it on Hamas. Check the numbers.

 

[Solomon2]

Please you killed 1 militant for every 4 civilians the majority being children. Stop blaming it on Hamas. Check the numbers.

Post your source, Jigs.

 

[Jigs]

Post your source, Jigs.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/19/rights-group-names-1417-gaza-war-dead-1/

The final tally of Palestinians killed in Israel's recent war on Gaza's Hamas rulers is 1,417, including 926 civilians, according to a Palestinian human rights groups that published the names, ages and other information about the dead on its Web site Thursday.

If you like i can provide you a PDF with all the information on each of those killed.

 

[Solomon2]

The final tally of Palestinians killed in Israel's recent war on Gaza's Hamas rulers is 1,417, including 926 civilians, according to a Palestinian human rights groups

So how do you get "1 militant for every 4 civilians"?

 

[Jigs]

So how do you get "1 militant for every 4 civilians"?

Does it matter if i was wrong? Do you not see a issue that 900 civilians are dead (A large portion children) ? If this is not the definition of disproportionate force i am not sure exactly what would be. Blaming Hamas for using people as shields would not give you justification for all the civilians killed.

 

[Cerian]

Does it matter if i was wrong? Do you not see a issue that 900 civilians are dead (A large portion children) ? If this is not the definition of disproportionate force i am not sure exactly what would be. Blaming Hamas for using people as shields would not give you justification for all the civilians killed.

It's not like they hold civilians up to their hands for not to get shot. From what I see, IDF's rule of engagement is if there is a suspected enemy, whether there is a chance of civilians around or not, they just use means of deadly force to eliminate it. This kind of engagement rule got NATO troops into trouble in Afghanistan because of the civilian backlash.

 

[500]

Please you killed 1 militant for every 4 civilians

Thats not true. Palestinian militants dont wear uniforms during the combat (only when they posture for cams), take gun away and voila - "civilian".

the majority being children. Stop blaming it on Hamas. Check the numbers.

Thats not true even according to Palestinians themselves.

The final tally of Palestinians killed in Israel's recent war on Gaza's Hamas rulers is 1,417, including 926 civilians, according to a Palestinian human rights groups

Explain to me why 94.5% of these "civilians" are male?

 

[Solomon2]

Does it matter if i was wrong?

Yes, it does. The first thing is that it implies that at a minimum you are careless with facts and not a scholar. Second, instead of "1 militant for every 4 civilians" we see that some of the Arabs themselves count one militant for every two civilians. That is hardly indiscriminate; that implies the Israelis were targeting carefully. (This mostly happened because Israel often employed weapons and techniques that frightened militants into running away, allowing many of their human shields to scatter.)

Do you not see a issue that 900 civilians are dead (A large portion children) ? If this is not the definition of disproportionate force i am not sure exactly what would be.

An outcome as a definition? I don't think so. Hamas employs civilians as shields, deliberately degrading them from human beings into mere armor for their fighters. That is the crime under international law, NOT Israel's response to protect its own people and their safety.

Blaming Hamas for using people as shields would not give you justification for all the civilians killed.

Such a standard is only applied to Israel, isn't it? (Sometimes the U.S.) You don't find it being applied to Turkey's repression of the Kurds, and certainly not to the Pakistani Army's offensives of 1971 in East Pakistan or 2009 in Swat.

If police, for example, were to follow your standards that would mean that every criminal who keeps a hostage would have to be left alone, yes? Is such a stand really defensible?

So what you're left with, Jigs, is that Ergodan, by endorsing breaking a blockade in a way meant to benefit thuggery and race hatred rather than people, is on the wrong side of the moral and ethical battle - and he's dragged you along with him, hasn't he?

 

[Jigs]

Thats not true. Palestinian militants dont wear uniforms during the combat (only when they posture for cams), take gun away and voila - "civilian".

YouTube - Hamas human shields

Then have a brain and send in special operations guys. It is one of the most heavily populated areas in the world and your dropping bombs and shelling the place and rolling in 60+ ton tanks. Just because Hamas goes into a school doesn't mean you drop on bomb on it to kill them. These are simple concepts we are talking here. In a hostage situation do you guys just shoot up both of them or something ?

Give me the number of civilians hamas killed during the GAZA offensive in Israel ? What was it ? 4 or 5 dead ? And buildingf damageg ? Stuff Israel and Repair right ? How do you propose those people repair buildings you leveled and schools you destroyed for the hunt of terrorists ? After all you have the place under blockade. I mean for god shakes you guys even hit Johara tower where all the international news guys are generally located and a hospital. What exactly was the IDF plan here bomb anyplace you see terrorists ?





Explain to me why 94.5% of these "civilians" are male?


Large portion were under 18 years of age are you saying that is what makes up large base of the terrorists. You can look through the PDF if you like for the name,sex,occupation of those killed.


http://www.pchrgaza.org/files/PressR/English/2008/list.pdf

Make sure not to miss the babies.

 

[r3alist]

but back to more important matters, who is the girl in the pic 500?

 

[Jigs]

An outcome as a definition? I don't think so. Hamas employs civilians as shields, deliberately degrading them from human beings into mere armor for their fighters. That is the crime under international law, NOT Israel's response to protect its own people and their safety.

And Israel bombs all of them not caring at all. They have something in common with the terrorists.

Such a standard is only applied to Israel, isn't it? (Sometimes the U.S.) You don't find it being applied to Turkey's repression of the Kurds, and certainly not to the Pakistani Army's offensives of 1971 in East Pakistan or 2009 in Swat.

Repression of Kurds ? What way does the Turkish state do that ? They have political parties and the same rights as Turkish citizens since they are also ones.

If police, for example, were to follow your standards that would mean that every criminal who keeps a hostage would have to be left alone, yes? Is such a stand really defensible?

Of course not but you wouldn't shoot them both would you ?

So what you're left with, Jigs, is that Ergodan, by endorsing breaking a blockade in a way meant to benefit thuggery and race hatred rather than people, is on the wrong side of the moral and ethical battle - and he's dragged you along with him, hasn't he?

No i liked the way they handled the aftermath. More should be done though as pressure on Israel. As we have the higher ground in this matter and they don't.