Islam's image: reformation and makeover

[Andross]

BTW Babri was a disputed Mosque long b4 it was razed

 

[KS]

Shall I bring up the actions on valentine's day?

For God sakes - hitting two girls and their lovers for public kissing doesnt make you a Nazi. And even then it was not RSS - it was Shiv Sena.

And this year even that was not there.

The ayodhya dispute.. then let me correct myself....
Ill drop the RSS... since it seems to be sacred while Islamic relief organizations are not..
what about those that demolished the Babri mosque?

Babri masjid/Ayodhya have a history going far beyond RSS.

Or the the Gujrat massacre's??

Sigh ! The gujarat riots (not massacre) were a spontaneous outburst of anger when news of 60 pilgrims burnt alive in Godhra by Muslim mobs spread. And the riots were highly localized and were not felt outside some districts even in Gujarat let alone in rest of India. Remember Gujarat bore the brunt of Islamic invasions did not help the Muslim victims either.

And in this "massacre" along with 750 Muslims ,310 Hindus were killed in police firing and killing by Muslim rioters (Yes Gujarat riots included rioting from the other side too !! )

Do the actions of the Hindu's involved in it..
1. quantify Hinduism as a religion.
2. Quantify Indian Hindu's as a whole?

NO

The Muslims responsible in the Gujrat incident

1.Quantify Islam as a whole?
2. Quantify Indian Muslims as a whole?

TO a part it quantifies how hotheads among Muslims have become prone to violence being misguided by their faith. As this was a pre-planned conspiracy to torch the Sabarmati Express within the 10 minutes it stops in Godhra.

Sorry I am going way offtopic here - but the RSS has had no role in these and their statements on the aftermath of Ayodhya verdict were a pleasant surprise to even their worst detractors.

And let the thread continue for its intended purpose - Any debate on RSS pls open a thread and I will post my views there.

 

[HellzHere]

The harshness with which some muslims look at other religions,unwilling to adjust has been triggering the growth of Islamophobia.No wonder,we have some of those harsh people here on PDF as well.

---------- Post added at 08:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 PM ----------

Note my point:Muslims in India are very compromising,adjusting and selfless.Probably the most free minded and matured muslim community in the world.

 

[KS]

The Christian West mixes religion into politics all the time and helps out fellow Christians in other lands, e.g. southern Sudan. Similarly, Jews, through their influence on the West, ensure the well-being of Jews throughout the world. The President of France personally apologized on national media when two Jews were attacked in a Paris subway. He never apologized for crimes on other minorities.

That is because there is lingering sense of guilt in the West about the plight of Jews over the last millenium , a guilty conscience and a sense of respect for their technological advancements - both of which the Muslims did not experience or have experienced in very less degrees.

Jesus being a born a Jew also helps them a lot.

And about the mixing part that is what angeldust said - doing in a covert manner so as not to be brash.Surely that is not what Islam does with all the Islamic Republics of ..........

There are double standards in media speech in the West: it is politically acceptable to criticize Islam and Christianity, but not Judaism.

Women in Islam Versus Women in Christianity and Judaism - A comparative Study

However, I do agree that there is a degree of dogmatism in Islam which has been reformed out of Christianity and Judaism.

Again that is because of the sense of guilt for the plight of the Jews which neither the Christians nor the Muslims endured.

Again, Hassidic Jews and Amish Christians live in closed communities with a very distinct culture. Nobody minds them, so why Muslims?

Because they are very discrete and peaceful. And none of the Hassidic Hews or Amish Christians are caught doing terror plots or suicide bombings. When some misguided Muslims indulge in these, refuse to integrate with the society citing religious reasons it is but natural for others to view the Muslims with a suspicious eye. For example we dont see Hassidic Jews indulging in arson but we see Algerian immigrants doing those in Paris. And the happenings in the Muslim world dont help these perceptions either.

 

[SQ8]

For God sakes - hitting two girls and their lovers for public kissing doesnt make you a Nazi. And even then it was not RSS - it was Shiv Sena.

And this year even that was not there.



Babri masjid/Ayodhya have a history going far beyond RSS.



Sigh ! The gujarat riots (not massacre) were a spontaneous outburst of anger when news of 60 pilgrims burnt alive in Godhra by Muslim mobs spread. And the riots were highly localized and were not felt outside some districts even in Gujarat let alone in rest of India. Remember Gujarat bore the brunt of Islamic invasions did not help the Muslim victims either.

And in this "massacre" along with 750 Muslims ,310 Hindus were killed in police firing and killing by Muslim rioters (Yes Gujarat riots included rioting from the other side too !! )



NO



TO a part it quantifies how Muslims have become prone to violence being misguided by their faith. As this was a pre-planned conspiracy to torch the Sabarmati Express within the 10 minutes it stops in Godhra.

Sorry I am going way offtopic here - but the RSS has had no role in these and their statements on the aftermath of Ayodhya verdict were a pleasant surprise to even their worst detractors.

And let the thread continue for its intended purpose - Any debate on RSS pls open a thread and I will post my views there.

Yeah.. leave it for another thread..

What I am trying to convey..without.. sounding passionate..
is that I dont beleive..
That neither.. Islam.. Christianity, hinduism.. or any other religion should be judged solely by its followers.
There were followers of the religions before.. there will be.. after we are long gone.

Your actions in the context of those religions define you.
You are either an extremist Muslim.. or a moderate one..
You are either an orthodox Hindu..or a liberal one.

I detest.. any religion being penned for actions by its followers...its their actions.. and their religion allows for judgement in its own respective lights.
Whether its "Islam has caused that.. or Islamic extremists"..or "The detestable cast system taught by Hinduism"..
The texts.. the scriptures.. say what they say.. its how you understand them..and in what light is that counts.

 

[Andross]

Bottom line all religions promote peace but the problem is the 'grey area' like even in Hinduism there is conduct on how to wage war similar to Jihad concept in Islam but the issue is some people like the extreme elemets are trying to hijack the agenda and manipulate the holy books for their own agenda.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Yeah.. leave it for another thread..

What I am trying to convey..without.. sounding passionate..
is that I dont beleive..
That neither.. Islam.. Christianity, hinduism.. or any other religion should be judged solely by its followers.
There were followers of the religions before.. there will be.. after we are long gone.

Your actions in the context of those religions define you.
You are either an extremist Muslim.. or a moderate one..
You are either an orthodox Hindu..or a liberal one.

I detest.. any religion being penned for actions by its followers...its their actions.. and their religion allows for judgement in its own respective lights.
Whether its "Islam has caused that.. or Islamic extremists"..or "The detestable cast system taught by Hinduism"..
The texts.. the scriptures.. say what they say.. its how you understand them..and in what light is that counts.

i have a slightly different opinion..i may not be politically correct.
every religion has rules and regulations written on their holy books. some religions leave it to readers(followers) to read and interpret the meanings by themselves while some others give this task of interpretation to priests and head of religions etc..with in them also different interpretations happens and if good in numbers they form a slightly different group.

in my opinion most of the holy books/ religions contains a darker side or lines which will not go well with modern society(no offence just my opinion ) and culture.in that case some give those lines a make over, face lift kind of interpretation as much as possible, or they ignore those parts in preaching.

it is interpretations and actions, behavior of leaders and followers which matters for the people and society.

 

[Developereo]

And about the mixing part that is what angeldust said - doing in a covert manner so as not to be brash.

Hence the title of this thread. What percent reformation and what percent makeover?

Because they are very discrete and peaceful. And none of the Hassidic Hews or Amish Christians are caught doing terror plots or suicide bombings. When some misguided Muslims indulge in these, refuse to integrate with the society citing religious reasons it is but natural for others to view the Muslims with a suspicious eye. For example we dont see Hassidic Jews indulging in arson but we see Algerian immigrants doing those in Paris. And the happenings in the Muslim world dont help these perceptions either.

That's where the media comes in, to paint all Muslims with one brush. I will give you one example: there is this Lebanese Islamic cleric in Australia who sometimes says things less than tactfully. The media calls him the leader of Australian Muslims, even though most non-Lebanese Muslims never heard of the guy.

 

[VelocuR]

We had this golden era advanced technologically during 1000 years ago. Same cycles empires!

What happend to us today?

 

[Developereo]

We had this golden era advanced technologically during 1000 years ago. Same cycles empires!

What happend to us today?

We got complacent.
How sad that the Ottoman Empire could not build its own ships; they had to ask Britain and Germany to build warships for them.

 

[Moorkh]

So Hitler's actions at the time would define Christianity as a barbaric religion?

Any Atrocities committed by Israel make Judaism a despotic religion?

The high handed actions of the RSS define hinduism then??

did hitler do all those barbarities in the name of religion?

did the majority silently agree with him?

hitler was a completely different case. he wasnt religious but racist. germans of the time are indeed seen as barbarians due to their actions against the jews, gypsies and slavs. or atleast the silence they kept instead of opposing hitler's actions.

i dont know enough about israel's "despotic rule" to comment so will refrain from it

in case of RSS you are wrong on two fronts. firstly it isnt religious. it is nationalistic. its not RSS but some stupid smaller organisations which are responsible for the high handedness.
secondly even these organisations are shouted down by the media and have very little support. there is no organisation in india which can claim to represent all hindus. none of them have enough support. also please refrain comparing what happens in india to actions of the taliban

 

[huzihaidao12]

We got complacent.
How sad that the Ottoman Empire could not build its own ships; they had to ask Britain and Germany to build warships for them.

In fact China is the same, I suggest to Muslim friends concerned about China's experience since 1840, I mean attention to China's civilization, ideological change, we struggle, then it might be helpful.

 

[fallstuff]

This what p!sses of ppl from other religion..y cant u accept other religions..?the disdain towards ppl from other religion is clear in ur above statement..
No wonder islamphobia is in rise all over the world

Where do you get your info from ? If what you are saying is true then India would be the largest Muslim nation in the world, after about 500 years of muslin rule.

No the hate is in you.

 

[Vinod2070]

Where do you get your info from ? If what you are saying is true then India would be the largest Muslim nation in the world, after about 500 years of muslin rule.

No the hate is in you.

It is. Almost half of the world's Muslims are from (undivided) India.

 

[Aslan]

did hitler do all those barbarities in the name of religion?

did the majority silently agree with him?

Lets see if you can get your answer from the picture below.