Islamism ???

[FaujHistorian]

What may be the reason of that?

A system that when implemented is NOT AT ALL practical and thus utter failure.

Sort of a dead horse.

I mean a horse that died long long time ago (like centuries)

And we are expecting that decomposed skeleton to run and to win the kentucky dirby.

Not happenin'

I am pretty sure that no matter how much good deeds I do, an Atheist like me is forked in the Quran (just using your language)

I have the unique privilege of being condemned by the Hindutva brigade on this forum and the Mulah brigade.

Hindutva birgade is your fight to fight.

But Quran doesn't say anywhere that an atheist will be forked.

Two things that get emphasized over and over are: Give charity when you have extra money, do meditation when you have extra time.


Tell me if these two can ever lead to anyone getting forked, let alone softy teddy bears aka harmless little atheist

 

[Chronos]

Tell me if these two can ever lead to anyone getting forked, let alone softy teddy bears aka harmless little atheist

But what about unbelievers roasting in hell?

 

[FaujHistorian]

But what about unbelievers roasting in hell?

not the unbelievers but those who do bad deeds.

Read Zindgi by Fazal Haq please

 

[scorpionx]

Two things that get emphasized over and over are: Give charity when you have extra money, do meditation when you have extra time.

This is exactly what reformists like Swami Vivekananda had preached hundred years ago. Sadly, Indo-Nazis don't agree at all.

 

[qamar1990]

Qamar bhai, we have fought on many threads and agreed on some too,

I am just curious (if you don't mind me asking), did you discover current vision of religion while in America, or it was there even before you left our beautiful country?



Developing systems starts with philosophy.

Modern systems need modern philosophies.

you cannot open a physics book from 1600 and use it to design a modern Iphone.

Let alone picking something up from 700 AD.


p.s. This is not an effort to pick up a fight. I want to retain a chance to enjoy Achar and lussi during your next trip home

i was raised in america.
i just learned the basic stuff in pakistan.

I have consulted my thesaurus, and it says that it is not possible to use those words in conjunction.

If cosmic intimidation keeps you in line, that's fine by me.

ok glad we agree on something then.
writing isn't my strong side.

 

[Kompromat]

@FaujHistorian

You are talking about the Khilafa, i am not. And i disagree with your notion of dead horse. We don't have to wait for it to come alive again. We just need to groom the offspring it left behind.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I think a major problem with islamism, and the use of islamic law in a nation state, is that it does not allow for the full rights of non-Muslim citizens of the nation. If a nation is 100% Muslim, then, perhaps, those citizens would be able to abide by islamic laws arrived at with due recognition of the many versions of islam that are practiced. However, there are few, if any, nation states in which all citizens are Muslims.

 

[FaujHistorian]

@FaujHistorian

You are talking about the Khilafa, i am not. And i disagree with your notion of dead horse. We don't have to wait for it to come alive again. We just need to groom the offspring it left behind.

May I ask which stable this foal or filly is "parked"

and who is the groomer, what kind of brush?

i was raised in america.
i just learned the basic stuff in pakistan.
.

"Basic stuff"??????????????

 

[Kompromat]

I think a major problem with islamism, and the use of islamic law in a nation state, is that it does not allow for the full rights of non-Muslim citizens of the nation. If a nation is 100% Muslim, then, perhaps those citizens would be able to abide by islamic laws arrived at with due recognition of the many versions of islam that are practiced. However, there are few, if any, nation states in which all citizens are Muslims.

An Islamic state protects the rights of minorities. If or not the laws are implemented and practiced by the people is where it breaks down. We are facing a law enforcement and a social problem.

May I ask which stable this foal or filly is "parked"

and who is the groomer, what kind of brush?

Its parked closer to you, and grooming us up to you and me. Personally Fauji, i'll rather ride my own donkey than borrowing a horse from someone else.

 

[qamar1990]

not to preach or anything.

But reading Quran has shown me no "intimidation" of cosmic nature,.

It simply says if you do good deeds, you will be in good shape
and if you end up doing bad deeds, well then you are hosed,

There is no fire from the sky coming down every time someone forks his neighbor,

It is just a general lesson for individuals.

Ufortunately in their zeal to rule our @rses our Mullah of politicians have made Quran and Islam into some kind of regime to stone and murder people, whistling while chopping hands and feet. This I say is stone age ideology aka idiot-ology

i don't understand what your side is.

the quran isn't something where you can accept some parts like giving charity ect. and then reject parts like cutting hands off for stealing.
i mean either you accept all of it or you reject all of it.
what your trying to turn the quran into is the something europe did to the bible, ignore the stuff they don't like and rejoice the stuff they do like.
Majority of us muslims don't care weather @FaujHistorian is a muslim or not, but what we do care about is if your trying to change our beliefs, we aren't shoving islam down anybody's throat. your taking the actions of a couple of thousand fanatics and using that as a basis to try to change a billion minds.
by that sad logic i would have to say that secularism is just as bad because of all the evil secularists like stalin and hitler who committed the greatest tragedies in human history.

so end it off I'm going to say we have seen what total secularism does ( ussr, nazi germany) and we seen what fundamentalism does( afghanistan, Mauritania, parts of pakistan)
we need a whole new system.

May I ask which stable this foal or filly is "parked"

and who is the groomer, what kind of brush?



"Basic stuff"??????????????

the basic stuff any 7 year old learns, you see my parents and i emigrated to the USA when i seven so the only thing i learned in pakistan is how to read arabic and pray ECT. in pakistan they don't teach the meaning of the quran, they just want you to read like a parrot so all the good stuff i learned in america.

 

[TruthSeeker]

An Islamic state protects the rights of minorities. If or not the laws are implemented and practiced by the people is where it breaks down. We are facing a law enforcement and a social problem.

I don't think this has ever been true in the history of Muslim-majority states. Though you may then argue that there has never been a state that was governed by islamic law. I.e., that heretofore all Muslim-majority states have been based on imperfect islamic law. If that is the case then "islamic law" is a chimera.

 

[FaujHistorian]

i don't understand what your side is.

the quran isn't something where you can accept some parts like giving charity ect. and then reject parts like cutting hands off for stealing.
i mean either you accept all of it or you reject all of it.
what your trying to turn the quran into is the something europe did to the bible, ignore the stuff they don't like and rejoice the stuff they do like.
Majority of us muslims don't care weather @FaujHistorian is a muslim or not, but what we do care about is if your trying to change our beliefs, we aren't shoving islam down anybody's throat. your taking the actions of a couple of thousand fanatics and using that as a basis to try to change a billion minds.
by that sad logic i would have to say that secularism is just as bad because of all the evil secularists like stalin and hitler who committed the greatest tragedies in human history.

so end it off I'm going to say we have seen what total secularism does ( ussr, nazi germany) and we seen what fundamentalism does( afghanistan, Mauritania, parts of pakistan)
we need a whole new system.


the basic stuff any 7 year old learns, you see my parents and i emigrated to the USA when i seven so the only thing i learned in pakistan is how to read arabic and pray ECT. in pakistan they don't teach the meaning of the quran, they just want you to read like a parrot so all the good stuff i learned in america.

We'll talk about this later.


Tell me what "basic stuff" you learned from Pakistan?

 

[qamar1990]

I am pretty sure that no matter how much good deeds I do, an Atheist like me is forked in the Quran (just using your language)

I have the unique privilege of being condemned by the Hindutva brigade on this forum and the Mulah brigade.

not necessarily, if a prostitute can go to heaven for simply giving water to a thirsty dog then why not an atheist.
tbh with you nobody on earth knows weather they themselves or somebody else is going to heaven or hell.
after all god said that he is not unjust.

I don't think this has ever been true in the history of Muslim-majority states. Though you may then argue that there has never been a state that was governed by islamic law. I.e., that heretofore all Muslim-majority states have been based on imperfect islamic law. If that is the case then "islamic law" is a chimera.

maybe history isn't your strong side, but anyways throughout history islamic empires have always been the most tolerant.
this recent wave of fundamentalism and intolerance is something new which was start in the 20th century.
muslims has always sheltered minorities escaping persecution from europe. I'm not saying that there hasn't been intolerance in muslims empire before, I'm pretty sure there has been but it is a fact nobody can dispute that muslims up till the 20th century have always more tolerant then europe and america.
there are countries where muslims did force people to convert but the vast majority of muslims converted to islam and remained muslims because of their own free will, indonesia being the largest muslim country is a testament to that fact because no invading muslim army ever touched them.

 

[FaujHistorian]

i don't understand what your side is.

the quran isn't something where you can accept some parts like giving charity ect. and then reject parts like cutting hands off for stealing.
i mean either you accept all of it or you reject all of it.
what your trying to turn the quran into is the something europe did to the bible, ignore the stuff they don't like and rejoice the stuff they do like.
Majority of us muslims don't care weather @FaujHistorian is a muslim or not, but what we do care about is if your trying to change our beliefs, we aren't shoving islam down anybody's throat. your taking the actions of a couple of thousand fanatics and using that as a basis to try to change a billion minds.
by that sad logic i would have to say that secularism is just as bad because of all the evil secularists like stalin and hitler who committed the greatest tragedies in human history.

so end it off I'm going to say we have seen what total secularism does ( ussr, nazi germany) and we seen what fundamentalism does( afghanistan, Mauritania, parts of pakistan)
we need a whole new system.


the basic stuff any 7 year old learns, you see my parents and i emigrated to the USA when i seven so the only thing i learned in pakistan is how to read arabic and pray ECT. in pakistan they don't teach the meaning of the quran, they just want you to read like a parrot so all the good stuff i learned in america.

Last time I was in DC and took a cab. the cabbie-guy was a Pakistani, we were stuck on the big ring road around DC during rush hours. so we started talking.

He talked just like you.

just like you

Had you stayed in Pakistan beyond 7 years old, without tasting the freedoms of American Republic

you will not be clamoring about mirages like Islamism

The problem is that you grew up far far far far far away from reality that Islamism brings.

like so many Pakistanis who "discover" Islam while living in the freedom of Western societies.

They just far far far away with rainbow colors in their eyes.

In case of many Pakistani-Americans living in USA (and I meet them during my trips over there), forget that

You have million man strong American troops to protect your freedoms.

So you sit in the safety and care of free society

and yet propose draconian stone age barbarity on us hapless Pakistanis.

you should be shameful.

really shamefull

 

[TruthSeeker]

maybe history isn't your strong side, but anyways throughout history islamic empires have always been the most tolerant.

I'm pretty sure there has been but it is a fact nobody can dispute that muslims up till the 20th century have always more tolerant then europe and america.

You are wrong. You can think whatever you want but "tolerance", meaning non-Muslims are not killed outright, does not mean the same thing as non-Muslims having equal civil rights. In all of those glorious tolerant Islamic societies you think existed, non-Muslims could not equally serve in political roles, own property equally, practice their religion equally, and so on.