Islamism ???

[VCheng]

You wouldn't bless me with your answer today?...seems like an unfortunate day for me Mr VC.
I did see Ravis post.

No, #218. Unlike you, I have to wait for the blessed time restrictions to post.

 

[RAMPAGE]

You wouldn't bless me with your answer today?...seems like an unfortunate day for me Mr VC.
I did see Ravis post.

The guy just dodged your main question in the JF-17 Thread

Are we sure that he's a Pakistani ???

 

[Kompromat]

The guy just dodged your main question in the JF-17 Thread

Are we sure that he's a Pakistani ???

Its okay. Dodging is also an answer.

Mr VCheng is as much of a Pakistani as Lassi, Achar gosht, Chicken Karahai, Kabadhi, Jalaibi, and siri paye are.

 

[VCheng]

Its okay. Dodging is also an answer.

Mr VCheng is as much of a Pakistani as Lassi, Achar gosht, Chicken Karahai, Kabadhi, Jalaibi, and siri paye are.

Please go to the JF-17 thread and you will find the answers without any personal attacks.

(Of course, some blessed by the powers are allowed to get away with what some others will get infractions for. )

 

[FaujHistorian]

People always take theocracy in narrow sense..when someone talk about theocracy people assume hate, bigotry, no rights for different religion and for women, no justice , violence etc

I have said it again and again that many secular principles are very much compatible with Islam if we leave open sex, wine and gambling for a moment

Modern republic is much more than open sex

de monstquieu's concept of three branches of gov cannot be found in any Islamic principles

This in my view is one of the biggest handicap for theocracy and Mullahs and Ayatullahs

They are trying to use single person power aka KSA in a modern world

like riding a donkey cart on motorway

 

[RAMPAGE]

Its okay. Dodging is also an answer.

Mr VCheng is as much of a Pakistani as Lassi, Achar gosht, Chicken Karahai, Kabadhi, Jalaibi, and siri paye are.

All these things have a dual-nationality

 

[Kompromat]

All these things have a dual-nationality

Okay lets end it here.

No, #218. Unlike you, I have to wait for the blessed time restrictions to post.

Time restrictions apply to everyone.

 

[Chronos]

Jefferson emulated John Locke, with one change. He kept the other two.

Here is a fantastic discussion on pain and burke

After Words - After Words: Yuval Levin, "The Great Debate: Edmund Burke, Thomas Paine, and the Birth of Right and Left," hosted by Jonah Goldberg, National Review - Book TV

I highly recommend everyone to watch it

More than than being caught up with definitions and terminology I think it matters more when institutions govern respect.

Now our instinctual reaction to a murderer would be mob justice, but in countries where rule of law prevails, Courts take a dispassionate approach and decide the case in basis of evidence.

This system is flawed, but it serves a purpose, as long as these institutions are respected, order prevails.

In fledgling democracies, or corrupt nations, cult of personalities emerge and a parallel system of courts that are influenced by culture or religion is followed.

In a democracy, there is this constant tussle between public good and individual freedom.

while the legislatie by it's nature, is swayed by emotions of the people in terms of electoral politics (slavery was once popular in America and so was not giving the vote to Women) the excesses of mob rule are kept in check by institutions which work on the basis of whether this right infringes on Individual liberty.

This however is an Alien concept in our part of the world.

So unfortunately @Aeronaut is right. Mob rule wins in our part of the world, because the institutions that are supposed to keep the mob in check are weak themselves and are constantly undermined by parallel systems.

 

[Kompromat]

@Ravi Nair

• Pakistan's current system is quite flexible in regards to making laws. Implementation is where our system fails.
• South Africa has one of the best written constitutions on planet earth, but its far from being an even society.

• Western World has succeeded in industrialization but has failed its citizens in wealth inequality and social services are crumbling. If Obama care is any measure to go by, you'll know what i mean.
  
  
• Pakistan is a Muslim society, our social dynamics are different from that of the west. Western philosophy has not succeeded in the Muslim world. States that have adopted western philosophy of governance are now venturing back into their own Islamic roots. Places like Turkey, Syria, Tunisia, Egypt, Afghanistan have all experienced with western philosophies, though their experiences are different, their end result is similar.

 

[Chronos]

@Ravi Nair

• Pakistan's current system is quite flexible in regards to making laws. Implementation is where our system fails.
• South Africa has one of the best written constitutions on planet earth, but its far from being an even society.

• Western World has succeeded in industrialization but has failed its citizens in wealth inequality and social services are crumbling. If Obama care is any measure to go by, you'll know what i mean.
  
  
• Pakistan is a Muslim society, our social dynamics are different from that of the west. Western philosophy has not succeeded in the Muslim world. States that have adopted western philosophy of governance are now venturing back into their own Islamic roots. Places like Turkey, Syria, Tunisia, Egypt, Afghanistan have all experienced with western philosophies, though their experiences are different, their end result is similar.

With all due respect, Syria, Egypt and Afghanistan are examples of how not to nation build.

 

[Kompromat]

With all due respect, Syria, Egypt and Afghanistan are examples of how not to nation build.

Correct. I hope that my argument is clear too. Western philosophies have not been a success in the Muslim world and cannot be, due to the fact that our social dynamics are different.

 

[livingdead]

With all due respect, Syria, Egypt and Afghanistan are examples of how not to nation build.

egypt has a big middle class, and is ripe for western style democracy.
those who think muslims have some different needs will most probably need to rethink after 20-30 years.
Indonesia and malayasia are muslim countries who made successful transition from colonialism to dictatorship to democracy.
North africa next.

 

[Chronos]

egypt has a big middle class, and is ripe for western style democracy.
those who think muslims have some different needs will most probably need to rethink after 20-30 years.
Indonesia and malayasia are muslim countries who made successful transition from colonialism to dictatorship to democracy.
North africa next.

Not 'fully' It will always retain a regional flavour.

 

[VCheng]

Correct. I hope that my argument is clear too. Western philosophies have not been a success in the Muslim world and cannot be, due to the fact that our social dynamics are different.

Social justice, law and order, and economic opportunity are all universal concepts, not dependent on any particular philosophy.

 

[livingdead]

Not 'fully' It will always retain a regional flavour.

so does India.. or south korea .. or japan.
there will always be influence of society but basic human needs (equality, justice) will remain same. Currently no other framework guarantees it better than democracy, even if muslim countries go back to islamic way of ruling themselves, they will turn to democracy within a few decades. Its only game in town.
Forgot to mention, Iran is very ripe for western democracy. Its already quite democratic.