Islamism ???

[Kompromat]

Social justice, law and order, and economic opportunity are all universal concepts, not dependent on any particular philosophy.

Islam isn't at odds with those concepts. An Islamic state is supposed to be a welfare state.

 

[FaujHistorian]

.... but in countries where rule of law prevails, ...

Well said

Do you know which modern philosopher introduced the term "rule of law" and the concept behind it?


Thank you

Correct. I hope that my argument is clear too. Western philosophies have not been a success in the Muslim world and cannot be, due to the fact that our social dynamics are different.

Which western philosophies and who were the philosophers?

Thank you

Islam isn't at odds with those concepts. An Islamic state is supposed to be a welfare state.

Who is the philosopher who stated this "Islam isn't at odds with those concepts."

And who is the philosopher who said " An Islamic state is supposed to be a welfare state".


Thank you


p.s. Sorry I am asking these questions. But I really want to see if you all have studied your subject or just using TV talk shows for this important discussion. I hope you all won't mind.


we must be educated enough to understand the basic concepts of modern civics and modern sociology/political science/jurisprudence.

 

[Chronos]

Well said

Do you know which modern philosopher introduced the term "rule of law" and the concept behind it?


Thank you

No

I learnt it from Cicero, Rousseau, Thomas Paine.

And hundreds of years of Jurisprudence by the British courts.

What the hell is this College law Jurisprudence test?

 

[FaujHistorian]

No

I learnt it from Cicero, Rousseau, Thomas Paine.

And hundreds of years of Jurisprudence by the British courts.

What the hell is this College law Jurisprudence test?

No need to get mad or be ashamed.

Sadly, there are too many posters here shooting from the hip, making statements that will not be accepted in high school civics class let alone a discussion among grown ups.

I hate such lazy intellectualism, the one similar to the tv-talk-show jurnos.

My question was not towards you in particular but the whole gang discussing this thread.


Hope you understand.



so the modern jurist who popularized this term "rule of law" was Dicey.

Albet Venn Dicey to be precise.


p.s.

Did you get to watch the video on Burke vs. Paine?

 

[Chronos]

Did you get to watch the video on Burke vs. Paine?

I will. after I had my daily quota of smut on the internet.

 

[qamar1990]

first reaction of Muslim(or Hindu) will be damage control justifying religion. the thought process is first blame all the damages to individual maulvi's or radical preaches, then some radical movements,then sects, and lastly all points towards religion. here it becomes total discomfort accepting the hard fact that religions like Islam has ingrained ideology of political control.

lol ok what ever makes sleep at night.
we'll all find out who is wrong or right when we die.

I'm not too worried though. out of the religions islam is the one that makes the most sense.
and even if islam turns out to be false it still won't bother me lol.
but on the other hand if islam turns out to be true then your fucked my friend lol.

 

[VCheng]

Islam isn't at odds with those concepts. An Islamic state is supposed to be a welfare state.

And neither are Western systems of social administration at odds with them. And they actually have welfare systems working rather than merely wishing for them.

The point is that discarding demonstrably working mechanisms merely because they are "western" in favor of pie-in-sky Utopian and idealistic dreams is not very smart.

 

[Kompromat]

And neither are Western systems of social administration at odds with them. And they actually have welfare systems working rather than merely wishing for them.

The point is that discarding demonstrably working mechanisms merely because they are "western" in favor of pie-in-sky Utopian and idealistic dreams is not very smart.

What if those 'working mechanisms' have not met expectations in similar Muslim societies?
Are we incapable of developing and implementing systems that suit our needs?

 

[FaujHistorian]

lol ok what ever makes sleep at night.
we'll all find out who is wrong or right when we die.

I'm not too worried though. out of the religions islam is the one that makes the most sense.
and even if islam turns out to be false it still won't bother me lol.
but on the other hand if islam turns out to be true then your fucked my friend lol.

Qamar bhai, we have fought on many threads and agreed on some too,

I am just curious (if you don't mind me asking), did you discover current vision of religion while in America, or it was there even before you left our beautiful country?

What if those 'working mechanisms' have not met expectations in similar Muslim societies?
Are we incapable of developing and implementing systems that suit our needs?

Developing systems starts with philosophy.

Modern systems need modern philosophies.

you cannot open a physics book from 1600 and use it to design a modern Iphone.

Let alone picking something up from 700 AD.


p.s. This is not an effort to pick up a fight. I want to retain a chance to enjoy Achar and lussi during your next trip home

 

[VCheng]

What if those 'working mechanisms' have not met expectations in similar Muslim societies?
Are we incapable of developing and implementing systems that suit our needs?

Apparently, yes. Our demonstrated capabilities to develop and implement suitable systems are abysmal.

In fact, a major part of the turmoil is because of the widening gap between our unrealistic expectations and our falling ability to realize them.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Apparently, yes. Our demonstrated capabilities to develop and implement suitable systems are abysmal.

In fact, a major part of the turmoil is because of the widening gap between our unrealistic expectations and our falling ability to realize them.

Sadly such is the reality.

 

[Chronos]

lol ok what ever makes sleep at night.
we'll all find out who is wrong or right when we die.

I'm not too worried though. out of the religions islam is the one that makes the most sense.
and even if islam turns out to be false it still won't bother me lol.
but on the other hand if islam turns out to be true then your fucked my friend lol.

I have consulted my thesaurus, and it says that it is not possible to use those words in conjunction.

If cosmic intimidation keeps you in line, that's fine by me.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I have consulted my thesaurus, and it says that it is not possible to use those words in conjunction.

If cosmic intimidation keeps you in line, that's fine by me.

not to preach or anything.

But reading Quran has shown me no "intimidation" of cosmic nature,.

It simply says if you do good deeds, you will be in good shape
and if you end up doing bad deeds, well then you are hosed,

There is no fire from the sky coming down every time someone forks his neighbor,

It is just a general lesson for individuals.

Ufortunately in their zeal to rule our @rses our Mullah of politicians have made Quran and Islam into some kind of regime to stone and murder people, whistling while chopping hands and feet. This I say is stone age ideology aka idiot-ology

 

[Kompromat]

Sadly such is the reality.

What may be the reason of that?

 

[Chronos]

not to preach or anything.

But reading Quran has shown me no "intimidation" of cosmic nature,.

It simply says if you do good deeds, you will be in good shape
and if you end up doing bad deeds, well then you are hosed,

There is no fire from the sky coming down every time someone forks his neighbor,

It is just a general lesson for individuals.

Ufortunately in their zeal to rule our @rses our Mullah of politicians have made Quran and Islam into some kind of regime to stone and murder people, whistling while chopping hands and feet. This I say is stone age ideology aka idiot-ology

I am pretty sure that no matter how much good deeds I do, an Atheist like me is forked in the Quran (just using your language)

I have the unique privilege of being condemned by the Hindutva brigade on this forum and the Mulah brigade.