'Islamic' Republic of Pakistan

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The problem is one of forcing Islam/XYZ to be the sole identity, at the expense of regional, cultural and ethnic identities.

Allowing both regional cultures and identities to flourish removes a major source of tension and distrust, and without that distraction, and assured of no threat to that aspect of ones identity and history, people can focus better on other parts of their identity matrix, especially those shared with other peoples - faith and nationality for example.

 

[Kansu]

First of all i m sorry for my silence for so long.i had some health problems and soon i will start 2. term of my studies.i was a little busy.

Mr. Niaz,i thank you for your answers.you helped me about understanding the problem better.but there is something i wonder,it seems to me that the problem is with the education and economical.
cant we find a 3 option?i mean,schools giving education like goverment schools but also lessons given on Islam.this seems possible for me because we tried it here in Turkey and the name of the schools are Imam hatip schools.
if you wanna get a secular education(islamic culture and education lesson is given in secular schools and it is not optional,everybody should get it),you take normal schools,if you wanna get a religious education+science education(it can be also social education),you take imam hatip schools.

as far as i understand here the problem is ,the madrassahs are out of control and they need to be superintended.what do you think about this gentelmen?

My Turk brother what was the secularism benifits for Turkey? Im asking you now because you're suggesting it for Pakistan? Once mighty Ottomon Empire which almost conquered Europe is now... (Please excuse my expression). is now begging EU to let the Turkey become a part of the European Union! What is the position of Europe to approve Turkey or not?!! specially with all of its history and conquests?

Sarkozy: No, No we dont want a neighbour of Iraq to become part of the Europe!!!
They're interfering with the Turkey internal affairs! about Cyprus and... so on.

And my answer to you is,anything is not as it seems.there are people in my country who uses religion for their dirty aims.i think the secularism of the country should be kept to prevent this.but at the same time,the application of the secularism is wrong in Turkey.the state uses and controls the religion to control people.this is not something well for sincere muslims.and causes some problems...

Also i dont suggest secularism for pakistan.please read my previous posts brother.
if we speak about ottoman empire,the decline of the empire after french revolution was certain.lets dont be territory fetish.we conquered half of europe but this conquest was not only to enlarge the empire.the empire was a civilization project...and the Turkish empire experience is an alternative to the whole europe's civilization projects.we still have historical problems and misunderstandings between europeans.
for this reason,they dont want us in the union.

but,we need to see the strategical aims of EU membership of Turkey.i dont know who says we beg for that membership,but it is not true.now they beg us to hold us on the EU line.we will play our own game.
the date given us is 2015 for full membership.but lets wait and see for that date,will Turkey still wanna be a part of EU at that date...

 

[ajpirzada]

History has shown time and time again that Islam has NOT sufficed as a binding factor for Pakistanis despite multiple attempts to fashion in to that effect. If anything, attempts to glorify Islam through national policies for the sake of nationhood has resulted in a colossal disaster.

The Indian Subcontinent has always been an extremely diverse place and it is logistically impossible to really homogenize it at this point. Which is why the most sensible way forward is to embrace the diversity and use it to the nation's advantage. It certainly won't be easy, or quick; but given enough time and good decision making, it will enable the state to stabilize itself from within, become more progressive and consequently more prosperous.

i will still say that its only islam which has kept pakistan together so far despite all the desasters and foreign interventions. as far as indian sub continent is concerned, its not the same any more. 98% of ppl livin in pakistan are muslims. diversity which exist is not in religion but in cultures and to keep all the cultures under one flag u need something in common. todays india however might still be the same as that of old indian sub-continent.
also being an islamic republic doesnt mean other religions cant flourish in pakistan. in pakistan sikhs can marry accordin to their own customs while in india they still cant do that. u wont hear any hindu christian massacre.
point i am tryin to make is nothing is stopin other religions from flourishin only bec we are an islamic state while at the same time its keeping us united under one flag despite the vast diversity in cultures.

 

[ajpirzada]

PAKISTAN: A Hindu worker is lynched for blasphemy as punishment for loving a Muslim girl
Dhimmi Watch: Pakistan: Christian man and his daughter arrested, almost lynched, after being accused of damaging Qur'an following dispute with Muslims

i guess those dont count

its a sad day when religion is the only think keeping a country together, i thought the betterment of your fellow man was something which helped maintain a country's status in the world but i guess not, its sad of whats happened to my pakistan ... if you havent guess i would like it to be removed and replaced with the democratic republic of pakistan, that would be the first move towards a truly great nation

i used the word messacre........ and never denied incidents dont take place in pakistan. however wat u r quoting can simply be ammended by removing the blasphamy law. u dont have to become a secular state inorder to achieve that. and such incidents will keep on happening and they happen in developed countries as well. solution to this is education.
also there is nothign wrong if religion is wat keeps the nation united. wat matters is if u r united or not.

 

[ajpirzada]

the problem with that is what are the people who arent muslim supposed to feel? you assume pakistan is 100% muslim but guess what it's not

i am not making any such assumption and i have always kept them in my mind while postin anything.
my point is that i dont see islam going against minorities rather it only bounds muslims to protect them.

 

[Awesome]

Agreed; what matters is how we would like to see Pakistan. Look at UAE, there is hardly a place where you dont hear the sound of Azaan 5 times a day. There is however no compulsion of any kind whatoever. Result is that it is one of safest places to live. Women can safely walk alone at 2 AM without the fear of of being molested or robbed. Can they do this in any part of Pakistan?

Changing the name doesnot make or unmake a bigot out of you. It is the society at large and the police to ensure that laws of the land are followed. Regret to say that neither is upto the mark in Pakistan? I know of a friend who told me that in Swabi, Madrassah students objected to his wife driving the car and asked him " how can you let your wife drive alone, she can go where ever she wants" The religious bigots have a dirty mind. Removing the word Islamic would send wrong signals to the retrogressive forces.

Yeah but UAE's driving force behind the inhibition of forced Islam is not religious tolerance but the prospects of a thriving economy. Tolerating non-Islamic practice boosts the economy for UAE.

However when push comes to shove, UAE has taken many religious decisions as well. And when I say religious, I mean 'religious'. Rapists have gone off free, locals can beat up expats, fraudsters get a slap on the wrist, murder... There is still crime, religious crimes, but just that we're a little too high society to seem like the nutjobs we are .

 

[roopesh]

Let me throw my share of Ideas....I am from RSS and even in our prayers we say that "Hindu Rastra Banayinge"..means lets construct Hindu Country. Even with this thought I dont want India to be complete HINDU nation. I always go with Secular. Pakistan is always a muslim nation. No one can change it. But bad ppl can easily protect in the name of religion as its easy. Look at taliban, swat...all the places. The problem is criminals easily protect themselfs as true muslims...Are they??

Its not that in India this wont happen? It does..but i believe its better than pakistan.Also see how western ppl attack pakistan becouse its muslim nation? Pakistan is a the only muslim nation with nuclear power...so wat? does it mean muslim countries cant have them?

by declaring pakistan secular i believe pakistan can address issues in better way atleast at international level. Hope ppl co-ordinate.

 

[fromwilliams]

If it's not broke don't fix it.

 

[Zovc]

Personally i would have preferred it to be called the "Democratic Republic of Pakistan", and not have a specific religion tied to the name itself. This does not rule out Islamic identity in the constitution.

Looking at Pakistani history, all the leaders with a people's mandate were secular to say the least:
-M.A.Jinnah never wanted Pakistan to be a Islamic nation, despite widespread protest against him by religious groups, even an attempt of assassination by Mullahs, yet still he did not impose Sharia or call it Islamic Republic. His speeches easily verify his view of a secular nation with freedom of religious practice for all.
-Z.A.Bhutto was again another secular man. He announced in public that "yes i drink alcohol (HARAM), but what i do not drink is people's blood". Religious groups were once again against him, he constructed a Casino (Haram) in Karachi, legalized afew things illegal in Sharia. Yet still the majority of Pakistan loved him and still do. PPP is again the ruling party after being victorious the fifth time out of seven democratic elections.
-Nawaz Sharif was inclined a little towards being Islamic, but it was never one of his key traits. He has been accused of doing alot of hanky panky in his private times and what not. Yet still remains the leader of the second most popular political party.
-Benazir Bhutto was a women to start with, that isnt allowed in Islam. You cannot have a women leader go over to 'na-murad' men and talk to them, discuss foreign and domestic affairs. She fought for womens rights in all her tenures, even if it was against the Islamic culture. Again the majority supported her.

The only people who never got a mandate were the Islamic Parties, who only constitute of 5% of the Pakistani vote. So honestly i do not see how we are a Islamic republic.

BUT, this is an issue to not be touched. As said by our American friend, "if its not broke dont fix it".

 

[Omar1984]

How about change the name to People's Republic of Pakistan?

 

[Speak Out]

Calling Pakistan an Islamic Republic or not will not change the social fabric of the country. Muslims will still remain Muslims. However, having identified Pakistan with Islam has had its negative impact i,e Whose Islam? The factor considered as one to unify the citizens of the country has led to further division as every wants to excel in the practice of Islam hence has led to a sectarian divide with serious security challenges. Having experimented with Islam and having seen its negative effects, one can now experiment with secularism to see if the change is for the better.