Islamic Eschatology - Strategic importance!

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

So what you are saying is that Quran is for some matters not all. Even though the Quran claims that it explains ALL things...am I right in your assessment?

No. Quran’s main focus is to elevate our soul to imaan, ihsan. Achieving absolute conviction and faith in Allah is the final goal. Stories in the Quran all have lessons to help us reach a high state of faith. Legal principles are to help us live in justice with those around us. We cannot interpret the future using Quran, unless Allah swt gives us some special dream, sign, or insight.

The Prophet saws Hadith are very exact and in simple Arabic so we can know some things about the future. Fitnahs and trials which will come, so we can aspire to protect ourselves using our faith in Allah swt.

What Sheikh Imran says is that eschatology OUGHT to be a guiding principle especially in the Times we live in...and this to me seems very sensible...

Yes, he is a deep source of knowledge on the subject and I respect him for it. Allah swt has given him much knowledge of these subjects.

To me it is iman which is like a lamp. We pray to Allah swt using: Namaz, Quran, Zikr, dua. We gain the inspiration like drops of oil to kindle the fire.

Mostly I’m inspired by Dr. Israr Ahmad who himself is a student of both Allama Iqbal (Sufism and the true nature of things) and Maulana Maududi (orthodoxy, practicality, and politico-religious thought.) He also holds a very positive outlook at historic figures like Quaid and Atatürk for their service for Islam and Muslims.

Listen to his lectures on YouTube and if you can, get some of his books (English or Urdu) from Pakistan.

Also what do you think is the correct methodology? Tell me what is incorrect with his methodology (and his teacher's)? To me it seems sound. First go to the Quran and collect all the signs on a subject matter, then go to the Ahadith for the same subject matter. Check the Ahadith to see if it goes against the Quran, if not, then it becomes part of the "Whole" on a particular matter and then make the conclusions regarding History, Politics, Economics etc etc via this process.

I don’t agree with his conclusions. I’m a very practical Muslim and try to gauge who is doing the best for Islam/Muslims and will support them.

Today I am seeing a lot of good from Erdogan (whom sheikh vehemently opposes) and I am expecting many great things from Imran Khan.

To make matters short, our political leaders have surpassed our religious leaders in piety and righteousness. It’s a sign of the End Times.

 

[TMA]

No. Quran’s main focus is to elevate our soul to imaan, ihsan. Achieving absolute conviction and faith in Allah is the final goal. Stories in the Quran all have lessons to help us reach a high state of faith. Legal principles are to help us live in justice with those around us. We cannot interpret the future using Quran, unless Allah swt gives us some special dream, sign, or insight.

The Prophet saws Hadith are very exact and in simple Arabic so we can know some things about the future. Fitnahs and trials which will come, so we can aspire to protect ourselves using our faith in Allah swt.



Yes, he is a deep source of knowledge on the subject and I respect him for it. Allah swt has given him much knowledge of these subjects.

To me it is iman which is like a lamp. We pray to Allah swt using: Namaz, Quran, Zikr, dua. We gain the inspiration like drops of oil to kindle the fire.

Mostly I’m inspired by Dr. Israr Ahmad who himself is a student of both Allama Iqbal (Sufism and the true nature of things) and Maulana Maududi (orthodoxy, practicality, and politico-religious thought.) He also holds a very positive outlook at historic figures like Quaid and Atatürk for their service for Islam and Muslims.

Listen to his lectures on YouTube and if you can, get some of his books (English or Urdu) from Pakistan.



I don’t agree with his conclusions. I’m a very practical Muslim and try to gauge who is doing the best for Islam/Muslims and will support them.

Today I am seeing a lot of good from Erdogan (whom sheikh vehemently opposes) and I am expecting many great things from Imran Khan.

To make matters short, our political leaders have surpassed our religious leaders in piety and righteousness. It’s a sign of the End Times.

So when the Quran claims it explain ALL things, as a Muslim I accept this. It does not mean that I have the capability, but rather someone who is appropriately trained and guided can use the Quran to do this. But as Muslims this is where we MUST look FIRST.
Matters of احسان or legal jurisprudence are not just the preserve of the Quran or Ahadith. In the times we live in eschatology needs to take a greater role, and what greater eschatology than one based on the Quran and Ahadith.

وَيَوْمَ نَبْعَثُ فِي كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْهِم مِّنْ أَنفُسِهِمْ ۖ وَجِئْنَا بِكَ شَهِيدًا عَلَىٰ هَٰؤُلَاءِ ۚ وَنَزَّلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ تِبْيَانًا لِّكُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً وَبُشْرَىٰ لِلْمُسْلِمِينَ - 16:89

One day We shall raise from all Peoples a witness against them, from amongst themselves: and We shall bring thee as a witness against these (thy people): and We have sent down to thee the Book explaining all things, a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

The Quran is also GUIDANCE!!

I have listened to Dr Israr as well but I find that Sheikh Imran is more of an eschatological specialist...as every scholar has his field...

I know you don’t agree with his conclusions, and it seems to me the reason is, that according to your internal understanding, his conclusions are incorrect. Well to be true, this is a rather subjective way of assessing his methodology.
Rather you ought to have critiqued the methodology rather than say I disagree on his conclusions because I feel that way.
If the methodology is sound, then one ought to accept the conclusions even if one does NOT like them. No? To just go on what one thinks is best without basing it on the Quran and Ahadith can lead to greater problems in future.

Examples of conclusions based upon correct methodology even though one may NOT like the conclusions.

• The conquest of Constantinople as prophesied by the Seal of the Prophets (PBUH) has not yet occurred based upon the Ahadith, rather it is yet to occur. I wonder what Recip Tayyip has to say on this matter?

• Gog and Magog are already out, the first wave came out 1400 years ago and waves have been coming out since then and the last will come when the True Messiah returns.

It seems you are disagreeing with the methodology because you don’t like its conclusions, this is just inadequate, instead of actually critiquing the methodology. So I ask you again what is the better methodology of using the Quran and Ahadith to explain things?

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

So I ask you again what is the better methodology of using the Quran and Ahadith to explain things?

My methodology is simple. Take the Quran first and then Authentic Ahadith (Sahih, Qudsi) as my primary sources. I agree with Sheikh about this, but I don’t necessarily accept his results or opinions. There is also the ijma of Ulema which is important as well (four mazhabs, spiritual lineage of sufis) which I also consider.

I don’t think his methodology is any different than Dr. Israr Ahmad’s. His incorrect conclusions are based on his lack of knowledge in many other areas of Islam and misreading of history.

To be well versed and able to sift truth from untruth, spiritual awakening must take place first which can only happen with knowledge of the basics.

On a purely western scholarly level though, Sheikh Imran Hosein is a scholar of the End times. He makes some interesting conclusions.

However so were Allama Iqbal, Dr. Israr Ahmad, Khalid Mehmood Abbasi, etc. these men also has knowledge in other realms as well.

 

[TMA]

My methodology is simple. Take the Quran first and then Authentic Ahadith (Sahih, Qudsi) as my primary sources. I agree with Sheikh about this, but I don’t necessarily accept his results or opinions. There is also the ijma of Ulema which is important as well (four mazhabs, spiritual lineage of sufis) which I also consider.

I don’t think his methodology is any different than Dr. Israr Ahmad’s. His incorrect conclusions are based on his lack of knowledge in many other areas of Islam and misreading of history.

To be well versed and able to sift truth from untruth, spiritual awakening must take place first which can only happen with knowledge of the basics.

On a purely western scholarly level though, Sheikh Imran Hosein is a scholar of the End times. He makes some interesting conclusions.

However so were Allama Iqbal, Dr. Israr Ahmad, Khalid Mehmood Abbasi, etc. these men also has knowledge in other realms as well.

Are you saying that Sheikh Imran does not know basics?? Tell me what basics is he deficient in...?
He studied and got his Ijaza from Dr Fazul ul Rehman Ansari from Karachi.

Sheikh Imran is a giant not only on a "Western" level but also in a spiritual sense, he often talks about the major epistemological attack of Modern Western civilisation...convincing Mankind that only "external" knowledge is true.

The Four Imams were mainly about legal jurisprudence (and to some extent theology) and the four schools reflect this. Sheikh Imran is on about eschatology which is still developing thanks to him. Whatever eschatology there was centuries ago is not as developed as it is today (as there was not so much a need to develop it, just like علم الکالم only developed when there was a need for it a few centuries after Hijrah).


Indeed Sheikh Imran has learned from Allama Iqbal and Dr Israr and many others and built upon them.

What about interpreting History via the Quran and Ahadith and not the other way around....? This is what he says... If the opinions of the Ulema are not in accordance with the Quran and Ahadith, then what is one to do??

Sheikh Imran, I don't think, misreads history, when he says that the Conquest of Constantinople by the Ottoman Turks is NOT the one prophesied by the Seal of the Prophets ﷺ. Even though most Ulema say/said it does/did fulfil it.

Tell me specifics about his misreadings...

Has he misread the Conquest of Constantinople...?

Trying to follow the opinions of the Classical Scholars who never experienced the Modern World is not the best way. (I am specifically talking about eschatology and not jurisprudence or theology as the latter two were highly developed centuries ago. Of course jurisprudence is also developing but it is not in its infancy anymore and theology does not really change.)

 

[TMA]

My methodology is simple. Take the Quran first and then Authentic Ahadith (Sahih, Qudsi) as my primary sources. I agree with Sheikh about this, but I don’t necessarily accept his results or opinions. There is also the ijma of Ulema which is important as well (four mazhabs, spiritual lineage of sufis) which I also consider.

I don’t think his methodology is any different than Dr. Israr Ahmad’s. His incorrect conclusions are based on his lack of knowledge in many other areas of Islam and misreading of history.

To be well versed and able to sift truth from untruth, spiritual awakening must take place first which can only happen with knowledge of the basics.

On a purely western scholarly level though, Sheikh Imran Hosein is a scholar of the End times. He makes some interesting conclusions.

However so were Allama Iqbal, Dr. Israr Ahmad, Khalid Mehmood Abbasi, etc. these men also has knowledge in other realms as well.

Also the opinions of others, what are they based upon, the same methodology?? I would be curious to know.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

As far as my thoughts are concerned, Dr. Israr was 100% correct in telling him to give khutbahs on other subjects. I knew both personally and I can tell you, though Sheikh Imran Hosein is a great scholar, he is not a scholar on the level of Dr. Israr Ahmad nor Maulana Maududi.

I was following him from a glance over the years and have seen Sheikh Imran’s way of thinking shift dangerously after the war in syria. He became totally pro-Russia, almost becoming an ambassador to the Russian cause, even to the detriment of Turks and Syrians. Iran’s part in supporting an oppressor in Syria also was wrong. I became disheartened by this rhetoric.

When he started going back into history and adopting a view which was anti-Turkish and pro-Russian Orthodox, this proved to me once and for all that he was going in the wrong direction. The end result of this would be Muslim brother helping Kuffar Russia to destroy Muslim Turkey, which I can never accept.

Many of the political statements coming out from his are also plain wrong. His critiques about Pakistan and its Army, maybe based on his rift with Dr. Israr who was a fierce nationalist for Pakistan.

I know him personally and I can tell you this that I understand him in and out. I listen to him and read his books, but always keeping in the back of my mind that he can very well be wrong as he has been before. He’s a scholar on a subject, not necessarily on a coherent worldview of Islam.

I don’t want to go too far in a critique of his views and statements because I respect him as my brother Muslim and a man more learned than me.

My basic goal is the support and upliftment of Muslims, wherever they, spiritually, physically, economically, and politically. This includes every and all Muslims who follow the Prophet saws, be they Arab or Non-Arab, Sunni or Shia, Sufi or Wahabbi, Black or White. We are all in this together.

 

[TMA]

As far as my thoughts are concerned, Dr. Israr was 100% correct in telling him to give khutbahs on other subjects. I knew both personally and I can tell you, though Sheikh Imran Hosein is a great scholar, he is not a scholar on the level of Dr. Israr Ahmad nor Maulana Maududi.

I was following him from a glance over the years and have seen Sheikh Imran’s way of thinking shift dangerously after the war in syria. He became totally pro-Russia, almost becoming an ambassador to the Russian cause, even to the detriment of Turks and Syrians. Iran’s part in supporting an oppressor in Syria also was wrong. I became disheartened by this rhetoric.

When he started going back into history and adopting a view which was anti-Turkish and pro-Russian Orthodox, this proved to me once and for all that he was going in the wrong direction. The end result of this would be Muslim brother helping Kuffar Russia to destroy Muslim Turkey, which I can never accept.

Many of the political statements coming out from his are also plain wrong. His critiques about Pakistan and its Army, maybe based on his rift with Dr. Israr who was a fierce nationalist for Pakistan.

I know him personally and I can tell you this that I understand him in and out. I listen to him and read his books, but always keeping in the back of my mind that he can very well be wrong as he has been before. He’s a scholar on a subject, not necessarily on a coherent worldview of Islam.

I don’t want to go too far in a critique of his views and statements because I respect him as my brother Muslim and a man more learned than me.

My basic goal is the support and upliftment of Muslims, wherever they, spiritually, physically, economically, and politically. This includes every and all Muslims who follow the Prophet saws, be they Arab or Non-Arab, Sunni or Shia, Sufi or Wahabbi, Black or White. We are all in this together.

This is your opinion on what he says and how he compares to others, and you are entitled to this but I ask once more is he wrong about the Conquest of Constantinople? If so why is he wrong? Please don't go to history first, stick with Quran and Ahadith.

Is he wrong about an alliance between Muslims and الروم? If so why? Please don't go to history first, stick with Quran and Ahadith first.
Is he wrong about the occupation of Hagia Sophia and the forced conversion of it to a masjid by the Ottomans?

If you can show or another can show using the same methodology, different conclusions than his, then I would be very interested, as would Sheikh Imran be. Sheikh Imran will be all ears if you can successful critique him irrespective of your age and status, as he himself always says do not accept my view until your intellect is satisfied with it...

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Ok brother. I will reply a little later to your query in sha Allah when I can sit down.

 

[TMA]

@MastanKhan

 

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan

Hi,
Thank you for the tag---. I cannot understand him---due to poor recording---.

If you can---please explain in a few lines what he is saying---.

 

[TMA]

Q and A. The Audio is much better.

 

[El Sidd]

Naymatullah shah wali?

the who?

 

[TMA]

@MastanKhan

This is another lecture on the same subject but the audio is much better.

Some guidance is given to the new government of Pakistan.

If a man who has taken a loan from you, comes and offers you a ride on his donkey or invites you to a meal, you ought not to accept as that would constitute Riba, unless he used to offer you a rides or meals before taking out a loan.

 

[MastanKhan]

@MastanKhan

This is another lecture on the same subject but the audio is much better.

Some guidance is given to the new government of Pakistan.

If a man who has taken a loan from you, comes and offers you a ride on his donkey or invites you to a meal, you ought not to accept as that would constitute Riba, unless he used to offer you a rides or meals before taking out a loan.

Hi,

Every Tom Dick and Harry have added their version---so that they may look important---.

He is not talking about providing justice to the weak and the poor---. He has no plans to target Nawaz and Zardari and other economic criminals---.

I don't have the time to waste to listen to him---.

Thank you---.

 

[TMA]

Hi,

Every Tom Dick and Harry have added their version---so that they may look important---.

He is not talking about providing justice to the weak and the poor---. He has no plans to target Nawaz and Zardari and other economic criminals---.

I don't have the time to waste to listen to him---.

Thank you---.

Suit yourself. Your loss...