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ISI - a big failure?

I belive it has been answered so i will not go into Detail .

The Mujahideen ISI has Supported & is Supporting are not TTP or its Branches , they are the onces Still fighting in Afg , they Dont attack Civilians , they dont Attack Mosques , They Dont Destroy Schools , They only attack US & Its Allies , its their home they have the Right to defend it . & we are their Friends so we Support them.

What these Mujahideens did in Afghanistan to shia Muslims is not a secret. Probably it does not concerns us. Anyways those who are really fighting against Americans/Nato are supported by all of us.
 
DO NOT DIVERT THE TOPIC OR I WILL GET YOUR POSTS DELETED.
 
A simple answer for your post. Why didn't military has pressured the political setup to change the Judicial laws regarding presenting evidence in Court? It's obsolete which gives advantage to these terrorists. Most of the suspect picked up through technical intelligence when presented in court gets the bail because there is no law which considers Cell phone interception data and other technical things eligible for evidence. Whose fault is this ? Judiciary? Or the Political lot who has not reformed the laws? Or the Army who blames the judiciary but don't say to political leaders to change the Laws?

I aslo think the same. Why Army remains quiet and keeping watching the terrorists captured by Army released by judges so easily. On the other hand it is duty of our parliament to amend the laws but does anyone here expects anything from Zardari/Nawaz Sharif.
 
I aslo think the same. Why Army remains quiet and keeping watching the terrorists captured by Army released by judges so easily. On the other hand it is duty of our parliament to amend the laws but does anyone here expects anything from Zardari/Nawaz Sharif.

These terrorists are latter captured by ISI and killed. These people are referred as 'missing persons case'.
 
Wow never thought you would be this Dense .
Why do you think they are called INMATES ? why do you think they are there , who do you think put them there ? ?

ISI is an Intelligence Agency whos main concern is to make sure Terrorists dont roam in your streets just because you dont have evidence against them , To save the lives of 100 civilians if one Terrorist is detained and ISI refuses to share the Evidence since it can lead to its Moles inside the Terrorist Organization, they have the complete Right to do it .

If High & Almighty Court can Banish a Prime Minister , what is stopping them to issue the same Ruling against the Chief of ISI ? EVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT ????

Now i understand what the Saying , " Banging your Head Against Wall" Means .

seriously how lame you can get more? You are aguing like i dont know the facts? And how convienantly you ignored " Army Act " words in the report.

Lets start with the honorable bloody civilian Chief justice. He gave the agencies the right to run the case under Army Act. So that the high and mighty ISI can easily present all the alleged proofs and data that can not be shared to "Bloody Civilian" and so that nothing sensitive leaks out and we all know how Army Act cover all the loop holes of that is present in civilian laws. Best example is of recent Brigadier trail and how Army gave upper hand to evidences provided by Army so if the evidences of ISI was really real and tangible than Army would have gave verdict in favour of ISI nai ?. But hey ISI even refused to share data infront of Army tribunal if we use your analogy so it means ISI is above the laws???????? Or is that ISI dont have trust on either Army tribunal or have trust on civilian setup?

To simply put Raja irshad said. We dont have evidences that can be proved infront of Army tribunal either. So all in all ISI cant prove these 11 man guilty infront of army tribunal neither infront of Supreme court and have let 4 man died by not providing treating them and dumped their bodies. . . So who is acting above laws and who is abusing human rights????? The judiciary or the saviour of whole nation ISI

this shows whose head is more dense and who is banging his own head against the wall since he can not proof that ISI is innocent. NOW MR.Fox where is GOD DAMN proof that these 11 man are guilty???
 
seriously how lame you can get more? You are aguing like i dont know the facts? And how convienantly you ignored " Army Act " words in the report.

Lets start with the honorable bloody civilian Chief justice. He gave the agencies the right to run the case under Army Act. So that the high and mighty ISI can easily present all the alleged proofs and data that can not be shared to "Bloody Civilian" and so that nothing sensitive leaks out and we all know how Army Act cover all the loop holes of that is present in civilian laws. Best example is of recent Brigadier trail and how Army gave upper hand to evidences provided by Army so if the evidences of ISI was really real and tangible than Army would have gave verdict in favour of ISI nai ?. But hey ISI even refused to share data infront of Army tribunal if we use your analogy so it means ISI is above the laws???????? Or is that ISI dont have trust on either Army tribunal or have trust on civilian setup?

To simply put Raja irshad said. We dont have evidences that can be proved infront of Army tribunal either. So all in all ISI cant prove these 11 man guilty infront of army tribunal neither infront of Supreme court and have let 4 man died by not providing treating them and dumped their bodies. . . So who is acting above laws and who is abusing human rights????? The judiciary or the saviour of whole nation ISI

this shows whose head is more dense and who is banging his own head against the wall since he can not proof that ISI is innocent. NOW MR.Fox where is GOD DAMN proof that these 11 man are guilty???

I will say it again , you have no idea what ISI is , how it works , what is its information sharing policy .

ISI & ARMY are two different things army has its own Intelligence Unit called MI , the information ISI has is soo sensitive in nature that it can not be shared with even the Generals of the ARmy , even 0.001% leak can cause huge problems for ISI & its operations. and as i said Before WHY IS CJ JUST NOT DISMISSING ISI CHIEF ?

he has the power dosent he ? if ISI is not following Courts orders just Dismiss its Head , like they did with PM, why are they not doing it , let me tell you why , because just like you they also have no Proof , only thing they can do is useless Talk talk & more talk , when it comes to Proving the Case magically moved to next date , & ISI is asked to present evidence.

There is no Concept of Innocent Intelligence Agency in the World , they have to take measures that are not acceptable by the civil norms , Does it make them Wrong ? NO , it is their job Description , They have to take every possible mean to make sure anyone who is harming or is about to harm Pakistan is Eliminated.

Court Does Nothing , ISI has learned its lesson, look at Sarbjjet singh , a RAW agent killed innocent Pakistanis , ISI caught him presented him to court , who should have been hanged 10 years ago , is about to get released as a gesture of Good will , same happened with the terrorists who were presented to court & then released afterwords , few days later they blew up an a mosque .

So Mr Mafia , i will say again , Either prove your point that ISI has kidnapped Innocent Civilians , or SHUT UP , & Get out , when you dont treat the Sacrifices of an Agency who has does its hardest to make sure ignorant people like you can sleep in peace with respect , then you dont deserve my Respect .

Up Until now you Did nothing , you proved Nothing , you showed nothing , only thing you did was COPY PASTE articles as your defense . so Untill you do some research & are capable to write on your own , DOnt come here .
 
seriously how lame you can get more? You are aguing like i dont know the facts? And how convienantly you ignored " Army Act " words in the report.

Lets start with the honorable bloody civilian Chief justice. He gave the agencies the right to run the case under Army Act. So that the high and mighty ISI can easily present all the alleged proofs and data that can not be shared to "Bloody Civilian" and so that nothing sensitive leaks out and we all know how Army Act cover all the loop holes of that is present in civilian laws. Best example is of recent Brigadier trail and how Army gave upper hand to evidences provided by Army so if the evidences of ISI was really real and tangible than Army would have gave verdict in favour of ISI nai ?. But hey ISI even refused to share data infront of Army tribunal if we use your analogy so it means ISI is above the laws???????? Or is that ISI dont have trust on either Army tribunal or have trust on civilian setup?

To simply put Raja irshad said. We dont have evidences that can be proved infront of Army tribunal either. So all in all ISI cant prove these 11 man guilty infront of army tribunal neither infront of Supreme court and have let 4 man died by not providing treating them and dumped their bodies. . . So who is acting above laws and who is abusing human rights????? The judiciary or the saviour of whole nation ISI

this shows whose head is more dense and who is banging his own head against the wall since he can not proof that ISI is innocent. NOW MR.Fox where is GOD DAMN proof that these 11 man are guilty???

The GOD DAMN proof lies with the FC who caught these men in action. If the proof is given to Supreme Court, then it is ISI who will be in trouble for not practising the laws and it's not just 11, ISI has to be held responsible for rest of the 'missing person'. Going as with time, it is first the court to be blamed for releasing terrorists.

Well now it seems that Army and FC must be given order to kill any survives and caught miscreants on the scene of battle, as they would gain freedom just due to our system.
 
I will say it again , you have no idea what ISI is , how it works , what is its information sharing policy .

ISI & ARMY are two different things army has its own Intelligence Unit called MI , the information ISI has is soo sensitive in nature that it can not be shared with even the Generals of the ARmy , even 0.001% leak can cause huge problems for ISI & its operations. and as i said Before WHY IS CJ JUST NOT DISMISSING ISI CHIEF ?

he has the power dosent he ? if ISI is not following Courts orders just Dismiss its Head , like they did with PM, why are they not doing it , let me tell you why , because just like you they also have no Proof , only thing they can do is useless Talk talk & more talk , when it comes to Proving the Case magically moved to next date , & ISI is asked to present evidence.

There is no Concept of Innocent Intelligence Agency in the World , they have to take measures that are not acceptable by the civil norms , Does it make them Wrong ? NO , it is their job Description , They have to take every possible mean to make sure anyone who is harming or is about to harm Pakistan is Eliminated.

Court Does Nothing , ISI has learned its lesson, look at Sarbjjet singh , a RAW agent killed innocent Pakistanis , ISI caught him presented him to court , who should have been hanged 10 years ago , is not about to get released as a gesture of Good will , same happened with the terrorists who were presented to court & then released afterwords , few days later they blew up an a mosque .

So Mr Mafia , i will say again , Either prove your point that ISI has kidnapped Innocent Civilians , or SHUT UP , & Get out , when you dont treat the Sacrifices of an Agency who has does its hardest to make sure ignorant people like you can sleep in peace with respect , then you dont deserve my Respect .

Up Until now you Did nothing , you proved Nothing , you showed nothing , only thing you did was COPY PASTE articles as your defense . so Untill you do some research & are capable to write on your own , DOnt come here .

One question if ISI was so influential both in resources, competency and the Judicary, why the problem of terrorism still festers in your country, on the contrary it has become a bigger issue with the rise of TTP of whose genesis is known..
 
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There is no Concept of Innocent Intelligence Agency in the World


Says it all. These agencies are supposed to protect nation and national interest, at any cost, even if it means terrorizing other country....look at CIA, KGB, MOSSAD, RAW...they all have this thing in common....

As for innocent getting targeted, a good spy can hold his silence for decades and won't break, but if ISI has its doubt and no proof of him being innocent, they will keep him...Its better to be safe than sorry....will be counted as Collateral Damage on your side.

There is no rule book or code of morals against enemy for intelligence agencies. You may get your hand dirty if you try to clean your house.

One question if ISI was so influential both in resources, competency and the Judicary, why the problem of terrorism still festers in your country, on the contrary it has become a bigger issue with the rise of TTP of whose genesis is known..



One question if ISI was so influential both in resources, competency and the Judicary, why the problem of terrorism still festers in your country, on the contrary it has become a bigger issue with the rise of TTP of whose genesis is known..
They are dealing with CIA, RAW and possibly MOSSAD and KHAD, what do you expect, foolproof protection.....not to forget these terrorist outfits can come and go porous Afghan-Pakistan border, which is nightmare for any country to control...not to forget Internal threat Pakistan is facing,....ISI can't handle all this, there will be some or may be , many, failures....
 
I would suggest every indian to keep themselves away from threads related to ISI..
I can write more bigger article which shows the failure of ISI but why :)
 
I would suggest every indian to keep themselves away from threads related to ISI..
I can write more bigger article which shows the failure of ISI but why :)

It Works both ways ..... so yes stay out of it :)
 
^
There is no Concept of Innocent Intelligence Agency in the World


Says it all. These agencies are supposed to protect nation and national interest, at any cost, even if it means terrorizing other country....look at CIA, KGB, MOSSAD, RAW...they all have this thing in common....

As for innocent getting targeted, a good spy can hold his silence for decades and won't break, but if ISI has its doubt and no proof of him being innocent, they will keep him...Its better to be safe than sorry....will be counted as Collateral Damage on your side.

There is no rule book or code of morals against enemy for intelligence agencies. You may get your hand dirty if you try to clean your house.

They are dealing with CIA, RAW and possibly MOSSAD and KHAD, what do you expect, foolproof protection.....not to forget these terrorist outfits can come and go porous Afghan-Pakistan border, which is nightmare for any country to control...not to forget Internal threat Pakistan is facing,....ISI can't handle all this, there will be some or may be , many, failures....

Agreed, however I was not talking about failures alone.. there are allegations that some in ISI are involved in sheltering some terrorists which they used when the state policy made them necessary. Now, what is the point in continuing those associations, why not use the knowledge they have and crack down once and for all on these groups?
 
Agreed, however I was not talking about failures alone.. there are allegations that some in ISI are involved in sheltering some terrorists which they used when the state policy made them necessary. Now, what is the point in continuing those associations, why not use the knowledge they have and crack down once and for all on these groups?

reproducing my post on another thread.

The fact remains, that the ISI has become the bogeyman both home and abroad.

Its a bogeyman abroad because it was the supporter and controlling factor for many militant outfits today that have been branded as terrorists.. But this was the task assigned to it by those that took those decision in Rawalpindi.
And for all the insensitivity of the statement, one must credit it for doing a very good job of it.

It is a bogeyman at home due to its involvement in many political scandals and power moves since that was the task assigned to it by the circles of power.

But at the same time, its the ISI that has prevented countless...and I mean countless efforts by the US, Israel , India, A large section of Europe.. and other to subvert, disrupt and dismantle Pakistan's nuclear program. It has blunted efforts by "well-wishers" and neighbours of Pakistan to create havoc in the nation via bomb blasts, target killings and the like.
It routinely provides intelligence to the police on possible terrorist activities day in and day out.
It routinely provides intelligence on the activities of our allies in the WoT to monitor and document sensitive sites in Pakistan under the guise of NGO's and "lost our way" excuses.
The ISI for all its ills, was.. and still is.. one of the best intelligence services in the world.
Its job was to provide information to those that are supposed to take decisions based on the information and By god it does it well!.
However, if those in power.. those taking the decisions.. do not have the sincerity,the humility,the courage or the IQ to take the best decision with that information..its no excuse to hold the ISI responsible for it.
 
reproducing my post on another thread.
So to summarize your post, it would be safe to say that leadership both the civil and armed is to blame for the situation Pakistan faces...

I know im being too noob here but then it seems Pakistan is trapped in a hurricane, how do you come out without being thrown off?
 
So to summarize your post, it would be safe to say that leadership both the civil and armed is to blame for the situation Pakistan faces...

I know im being too noob here but then it seems Pakistan is trapped in a hurricane, how do you come out without being thrown off?

with prayers and hope.. both depleting fast as long as the majority sleeps.
 

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