Is Turkey the role model?

[Myth_buster_1]

Stripping away what? Having a secular political system doesn't strip away religion, where do you gather such extreme views from? Turkey is the Muslim country that has more mosques than any other Muslim country on earth (including Iran which is a theocracy) and religion is more open and free than anywhere else in the Muslim world. With the secular political system we do not have rivaling religious branches blowing up eachothers mosques, is that a bad thing? We keep religion out of politics, which is in principal very good since politicians lie for 90% of what they say, imagine religion was made a tool for all the lies the politicians are producing and poluting this way the religion.

Stop bringing in Muslims blowing other Muslims in your arguments just to justify that Secular is a perfect solution for Muslim world.
I hope you know the term Secular? Religion is striped away from the authority of the State and you are saying it is perfectly fine? Prove it to me from Quran and Hadis that indeed its okay for Muslims to strip away religion from their states matters. Of course Secularism allows every citizen to practice its faith but at home, or mosque only but not at state level. This is a very weak form of Islam which Muslims are pursuing and again, the Verse and the Hadis I quoted perfectly defines that.
Even if Turkey has more mosque still does not mean anything significant in terms of sovereignty of the state. India has more Muslims and more mosque then UAE Qatar and Bahrain combined so does that makes them more of a Muslim State?
Turkey is enjoying worldly pleasure because once upon a time that region (Ottoman Empire) use to be a super power and Secular West made sure that Muslims of that region dont stand up on their feet ever again so they gave Turkey their own platform to stand up on. Turkey is pretty much like any other western state except Turkey has more Muslims. And neither I expect any so called Muslim state to be following Islam perfectly since we are in the time of Jahiliyyah which is described in Quran and Hadis.

 

[Nutuk]

It's not for justification, it sheer fact. Religious sects are battling eachother and all claim the other one is not following the perfect Islam. Both sides claim it's OK to blow up the 'infidels'. Who is winning when Muslim battle eachother? Who is deviding Iraq into Sunni and Shia areas, the Muslims themself or the US? Let me ask the question more close to you, who is messing up Pakistan and Afghanistan? Who is using Muslim against Muslim in a semi civil war that you have? Do you believe that Muslim blood is so cheap that it should flow. It makes me really sad what happens in Pakistan and how religion is exploited in politic ambitions. I wish Pakistan was as secular as Turkey, and religion was not exploited in politics in such faul ways.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

It's not for justification, it sheer fact. Religious sects are battling eachother and all claim the other one is not following the perfect Islam. Both sides claim it's OK to blow up the 'infidels'. Who is winning when Muslim battle eachother? Who is deviding Iraq into Sunni and Shia areas, the Muslims themself or the US? Let me ask the question more close to you, who is messing up Pakistan and Afghanistan? Who is using Muslim against Muslim in a semi civil war that you have? Do you believe that Muslim blood is so cheap that it should flow. It makes me really sad what happens in Pakistan and how religion is exploited in politic ambitions. I wish Pakistan was as secular as Turkey, and religion was not exploited in politics in such faul ways.

Again, you are using bad apples to blame the entire system. If Islam is followed to its true potential Muslim world would not be having any problems like today. Dont give me Iraq Afg Pak etc example to justify Secular system over Muslim World. You keep dodging Quran and Hadis and resorting to giving bad Muslims as example of Islam. Thats quite sad. The problem with you is that you confuse Islam with Taliban, Pakistan, Iraq, Afg, Shia sunni etc, dont man thats not Islam because Islam does not have any flaws. When I say Muslim World should fallow Islamic system it does not automatically means fallowing some group, sect, ideology etc but Quran Hadis and Sunnah. Pakistan is pretty much a Secular state because if Pak was fallowing Islam they would not be in such a mess that they are in today. And their is no way Muslims on their own can establish Islamic system to its true form but only a promised messiah can bring that.

 

[Nutuk]

And their is no way Muslims on their own can establish Islamic system to its true form but only a promised messiah can bring that.

Again we disagree, Allah gave us brains, the example (Quran) and is expecting to manage ourselfs instead of waiting for messiahs. I am astonished by the inferiority complex you have on Muslims. The way is not to ruin Islam by politics. As long as Islam is used by politics you will never see the clean perfect Islam. Politics and religion have to be kept separate, politics is between people, Islam is between person and Allah.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

If you keep politics and religion apart then where do you get your ethical rights from, democracy? Don't make me laugh, religion must undeniably be a part of the state, if not it is not darul-islam, which means Muslims are not given their religious rights. You want a good example, look at where you live, wearing hijab in state buildings including universities is forbidden.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

To carry on from what Zulkarneyn is saying above... I have recently seen footage of an idiot (I think he is an officer in the Turkish Army) refusing to hand a prize to a girl at a school because she was wearing a head scarf... This is what the evil and sickness of Secularism does to people...

All this talk about keeping religion to oneself when religion itself has to do with dealing with others (as well as oneself)... In reality the Secularists are full of hate for religion and desire nothing but harm for them... They basically want to continue this rant of Secularism so that they can do whatever they like without any moral grip that religion provides to society...

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Again we disagree, Allah gave us brains, the example (Quran) and is expecting to manage ourselfs instead of waiting for messiahs. I am astonished by the inferiority complex you have on Muslims. The way is not to ruin Islam by politics. As long as Islam is used by politics you will never see the clean perfect Islam. Politics and religion have to be kept separate, politics is between people, Islam is between person and Allah.

You have a wrong concept of Islam. Allah gave us Quran yes, but Secularism and Islam cant go hand in hand because thats will be a innovation in Islam "bidah". I dont have any inferiority complex because I am one of the Muslim and not a special one. The funny thing is you said (Allah gave us brains, the example (Quran) and is expecting to manage ourselfs) but yet you want to separate religion from the state matters which is forbidden in Islam. I said, only a promised Messiah can reestablish Islam to its true form however practically their is little we can do on our own.

 

[Nutuk]

Just give me one example of an Islamic country where politics and Islam are mixed, that is not phucked up (excuse me for the expression). The same counts for Christian countries, try to run a country by clerics without phuckin it up.

Heck even in the beginning of Islam it did not work, Muslims killed Muslims even chalips when politics where mixed with religion. But yeah, if it makes you happy just wait for the Messiah while the rest of the world develops and lives in prosper.

 

[ovarel]

If you keep politics and religion apart then where do you get your ethical rights from, democracy? Don't make me laugh, religion must undeniably be a part of the state, if not it is not darul-islam, which means Muslims are not given their religious rights. You want a good example, look at where you live, wearing hijab in state buildings including universities is forbidden.

secularism of Turkey is originated from French laicite..thats why turkish secularists are acting like animals to women wear hijab..french laicite opposes religion and so does Turkeys..

we have to transform it into a more civilized level and it must contain all the people..seperating religion from state is an utopia of french laicists and no need to mention that they are blind with the hatred of religion.

and islamic system however is impossible in Turkey..there must be a massive transformation in the society..

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I wonder how banning hijab in govt institutes helps turkiye?
Extreme of secularism n extreme of religion.......Both r dangerous.

 

[Time Assassin]

No one is a role model in the world!!! no nation is greater than the other, if you dehumishing a race or making them superior than you are a idiot.
Your life has valve so do good things, your community is your neighbours so help them , your city is your home so look after it, your nation is your pride so make sure it represents you. That is what a country is.

whether it is Turkey, Pakistan, India or China every nation contributes to the World.

 

[Ahmad]

No one is a role model in the world!!! no nation is greater than the other, if you dehumishing a race or making them superior than you are a idiot.
Your life has valve so do good things, your community is your neighbours so help them , your city is your home so look after it, your nation is your pride so make sure it represents you. That is what a country is.

whether it is Turkey, Pakistan, India or China every nation contributes to the World.

i dont think the question is about race or any specific type of people. People are talking about countries as a whole and their acievements.

 

[ovarel]

I wonder how banning hijab in govt institutes helps turkiye?
Extreme of secularism n extreme of religion.......Both r dangerous.

yep,its obviously a militancy..its a heritage of dictatorial era of Turkey but its changing..girls can wear headscraves in universities now...it will also be free in govt institutes and it should be...

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Just give me one example of an Islamic country where politics and Islam are mixed, that is not phucked up (excuse me for the expression). The same counts for Christian countries, try to run a country by clerics without phuckin it up.

Heck even in the beginning of Islam it did not work, Muslims killed Muslims even chalips when politics where mixed with religion. But yeah, if it makes you happy just wait for the Messiah while the rest of the world develops and lives in prosper.

I am sorry to say but you seem to have a poor understanding of Islam. You think it is something like a secondary necessity for Muslims let alone the rest of mankind. You keep going around in circles and repeating the same stuff over and over again which has already been debunked.
Prove me (from Quran Hadis) that indeed its okay for muslims to divorces Islam from state matters and that Islam is a "personal" matter.
If Allah wanted he could have made every single man kind obedient to him and all of us would be perfect muslims ( like angels) but instead he gave us control of situation around us and the ability to think on our own. Thats why no one is perfect today in this world but the only thing perfect in the eyes of Allah is Islam if fallowed in its true form.

 

[Kambojaric]

@ Mythbuster: Ok i agree that in Islam, religion and state should not be seperate. BUT, whose ISLAM are we talking about? WHO is the right muslim? The Deobandi? the Wahabi? the Shia? The Sufi? The Baraelvi? Yes its easy to say that we should not seperate the two, but as long as the ulema are busy fighting each other over who is the true follower of Islam how can we create a peaceful muslim country?