Is Turkey the role model?

[silko]

but since we are mostly shi.tty

are you a Shiia muslim or Sunni, cause almost every muslim in Turkey is Sunni

 

[Myth_buster_1]

authority of the british empire? have you smoked weed or something?

turkey wasn't created thanks to the british people, or the state. if so why did they attack our country and wanted a piece of it?

Ataturk was pampered by British empire and it was their demand to abolish Kalifa which was in its worst form during that time.

 

[silko]

Ataturk was pampered by British empire and it was their demand to abolish Kalifa which was in its worst form during that time.

im not a ataturk fan so...

i agree he was loyal to british, but the people in turkey wasn't at that time. british soldiers was in turkish soil and wanted it, was it ataturk that fought against them, no! it was muslim soldier that remained from the ottoman time!

i don't understand why we should hail ataturk and not the martyrs that fought for this country during WW1.

worst form, can you explain that to me?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

im not a ataturk fan so...

i agree he was loyal to british, but the people in turkey wasn't at that time. british soldiers was in turkish soil and wanted it, was it ataturk that fought against them, no! it was muslim soldier that remained from the ottoman time!

i don't understand why we should hail ataturk and not the martyrs that fought for this country during WW1.

worst form, can you explain that to me?

The leadership became poor under which the people did not prosper and the the entire system of Khalifa was corrupt.

 

[Saithan]

im not a ataturk fan so...

i agree he was loyal to british, but the people in turkey wasn't at that time. british soldiers was in turkish soil and wanted it, was it ataturk that fought against them, no! it was muslim soldier that remained from the ottoman time!

i don't understand why we should hail ataturk and not the martyrs that fought for this country during WW1.

worst form, can you explain that to me?

You need to read some books and do proper research. If you aren't able to comprehend what Atatürk did for Turkey, then as a Türk, I can only feel sorry for you.

Yes many fought and died, and if you don't know of the graves that are being visited in Canakkale, then there is nothing else I can say to you.

The leadership became poor under which the people did not prosper and the the entire system of Khalifa was corrupt.

You belong to the branch of islam who's waiting for a Mahdi, don't you, one of those who expect another great era of Islam to occur. The type who're willing to wait and let someone else do the hard work and then brag about it as if you were part of the great machination...

Khalifa... yeah the idea is good, except that not a single f***ing soul after Hz. Muhammed is worthy of that title, so you keep waiting.

 

[500]

if it's good, then how did the ottoman empire survive almost 700 years with islam as the state religion?

Because 800 years ago other states were religious as well. But when Europe became secular Ottoman Empire began heavily lag behind.

 

[rcrmj]

Well Turkey is not particularly "succesful" if one counts that we have been reduced from an empire to state in WW1. Turkey is the last 20 years again in rise economically and technologically but far far away from past glories.

this is too much, the past Ottoman glory was built on superior military tradition, but not with superior culture, economy and technologies. so the fundation was weak.

and also other certain circumstances that played out favorable to Turkish people to built the empire. for example, during 13th -14th centry, the whole middleast was ravaged by all the wars brought by mongals and crusadors, so at that specific time araba world was in shameble. and at the meantime, the west was also wasted by the 'holy' wars against muslims. it was just a right time and right place for turkish people to get in!

in comparison, few hunderd years earlier, the Turks built a huge empire north to China proper, streching from Korea peninsula to current Afghan and beyond. but they chose the wrong time to and wrong place to conqer China (tang dynasty) when it was just united from civil wars. the result was the Turkish empire was annexed completely and forced to move westwards..

but in terms of whether Turky can be role model to the rest of muslim countries. one thing i like the most is that they seperate religion and politics and the country is very liberal to some extend.

 

[ovarel]

Because 800 years ago other states were religious as well. But when Europe became secular Ottoman Empire began heavily lag behind.

dont get superficial..it was not about secularism..the main reason of why ottomans lagged behind is industrialization..secularism is not related with it..

you may also consider to secularize "the jewish state".

 

[silko]

You need to read some books and do proper research. If you aren't able to comprehend what Atatürk did for Turkey, then as a Türk, I can only feel sorry for you.

Yes many fought and died, and if you don't know of the graves that are being visited in Canakkale, then there is nothing else I can say to you.

what i'm trying to say is that i dont like ataturk, but i dont hate him either.

and what i think is wrong is that a lot of turkish soldiers now a day fight for ataturks secularism in northern iraq, and when they die they are becoming martyrs. for what? dying for a man?

i fight for my countrys people and to not let kurdish terrorists take parts of turkey where islam can be abolished.

i dont have anything agains't ataturk. im just not been teached to worship him.

does the martyrs that fought on the canakkale war, do they have a official day in turkey where they are getting honoured? except the day it started?

look at the countrys children now a days, i think it's a shame for those ottoman khalifats, they work soooo hard. and this is the result?

 

[A1Kaid]

dont get superficial..it was not about secularism..the main reason of why ottomans lagged behind is industrialization..secularism is not related with it..

you may also consider to secularize "the jewish state".

Very good and valid point, as you know some are trying to distort history and interject their own philosophy to defeat ideologies and beliefs they resent.

 

[ovarel]

Very good and valid point, as you know some are trying to distort history and interject their own philosophy to defeat ideologies and beliefs they resent.

israelis and some indians act like militans about secularism because they dont want other muslim populated countries to interfere the palestine and kashmir issue..plain and simple..

in reality,they dont give a ratz azz about Turkey(or others) is secular or not..also the guy nick-named "500" doesnt care and obviously doesnt know about the ottoman history..all they care is to manipulate people in favor of themselves.

 

[Saithan]

what i'm trying to say is that i dont like ataturk, but i dont hate him either.

and what i think is wrong is that a lot of turkish soldiers now a day fight for ataturks secularism in northern iraq, and when they die they are becoming martyrs. for what? dying for a man?

i fight for my countrys people and to not let kurdish terrorists take parts of turkey where islam can be abolished.

i dont have anything agains't ataturk. im just not been teached to worship him.

does the martyrs that fought on the canakkale war, do they have a official day in turkey where they are getting honoured? except the day it started?

look at the countrys children now a days, i think it's a shame for those ottoman khalifats, they work soooo hard. and this is the result?

I can't help but feel that your understanding of Atatürk is completely wrong. i am not a kemalist, and you can bet everything you have on that the soldiers serving the country are fighting for a turkey and not ataturk, if you still think otherwise then you need to come up with something tangible. You say that you are fighting for turkiye, how ? You are living in norway just like I m living in denmark so our contribution to turkiye is aproximtely 0.

Most people seem to think that you can either be secular or religious and that you can' be both at the same time. I think that's quite sad, and narrowminded. What are the muslims living in the western world then... ?

 

[oct605032048]

israelis and some indians act like militans about secularism because they dont want other muslim populated countries to interfere the palestine and kashmir issue..plain and simple..

in reality,they dont give a ratz azz about Turkey(or others) is secular or not..also the guy nick-named "500" doesnt care and obviously doesnt know about the ottoman history..all they care is to manipulate people in favor of themselves.

Is Turkey a secular state or not? I've heard there is a trend of religionization in Turkey.

 

[ovarel]

Is Turkey a secular state or not? I've heard there is a trend of religionization in Turkey.

unfortunately,Turkey is laicist...There is a trend of normalization in Turkey,nothing else.

 

[500]

dont get superficial..it was not about secularism..the main reason of why ottomans lagged behind is industrialization..secularism is not related with it..

Good, and why Islamic Ottoman empire failed to industrialize itself, unlike secular European states and Japan?

you may also consider to secularize "the jewish state".

Israel is pretty secular state. I wish it was 100% secular. I am doing my best by voting for parties with secular anti religious agenda.