Is tide turning finally ? Angry mob sets ablaze house of Lashkar operative in Kashmir

[Developereo]

You are contradicting yourself ..in one breath you talk of brutality of Indian security forces and in another you accept that it's pattern seen across all conflict zones ....from asia , Europe to Africa ....Kashmir being no exception .

And where, exactly, is the contradiction?

There have been other instances throughout history where occupation forces have engaged in mass rapes, mass executions, torture and other acts as a means to psychologically intimidate the subject population.

The Indian security forces documented behavior fits that pattern.

 

[Dem!god]

good to know.....
kashmir rahega india......

 

[Indo-guy]

And where, exactly, is the contradiction?

There have been other instances throughout history where occupation forces have engaged in mass rapes, mass executions, torture and other acts as a means to psychologically intimidate the subject population.

The Indian security forces documented behavior fits that pattern.

Except the fact that you have no proofs for mass rapes , mass executions and mass tortures ....

You must be thinking of Azad Kashmir ....and trying to pass it as mass rapes and mass executions in Indian Kashmir ....

 

[Dillinger]

You attempt at pseudo-legalese to try and give legitimacy to your post is comical, since there is no actual substance to your post.

All you are saying -- in so many words -- is that you won't believe anything unless there is a written directive from the Indian government.

As I already explained, my argument is based on behavior patterns. Patterns which are consistent with psychological intimidation in other conflict zones. I also explained the role of the army at large but I don't expect you to understand it.

And we should defer to your arguments because you have accrued expertise in observing and analyzing these behavior patterns, furthermore you have somehow garnered the ability to then take said analysis and extrapolate that it constitutes proof in favor of the existence of some overarching conspiracy of violence against the citizens of the Indian state of Kashmir by the Indian establishment. So much for a cogent and substantiated argument.


As for the "pseudo-legalese", that's just me being my exacting and semantically correct self (well so far at least one of us seems to be adhering to what was insinuated by his good word), of course there is not much room for the practice of dialectics since you could not substantiate your claim otherwise we might have made Hegel proud.

 

[Vinod2070]

Truth is that some people are unable to get over the fact that Indian deployment in Kashmir has nullified their proxy war in Kashmir .

and hence Indian security forces are thorn in their flesh ....

that's the reason why we see perennial propaganda of brutality by Indian security forces .

Isolated cases of brutality are whipped up periodically to militancy alive ...

Fact is that the "Indian security deployment in Kashmir" was an explicit objective of Pakistan's Kashmir policy.

The like of Zia had "calculated" that once Indian deployment in Kashmir goes above a certain level, the burden will be too much for India. That India will break up under that burden.

That is why the terrorism was ramped up to attain that level of deployment.

Of course the "calculation" went kaput and it is Pakistan that is suffering the consequences. Perhaps irrevocably.

We can safely ignore the pathetic rants of the terror supporters and deluded folks.

They are never the ones to own up to the consequences of their actions. For them it is always non Muslims who are to blame for every issue.

 

[Developereo]

And we should defer to your arguments because you have accrued expertise in observing and analyzing these behavior patterns, furthermore you have somehow garnered the ability to then take said analysis and extrapolate that it constitutes proof in favor of the existence of some overarching conspiracy of violence against the citizens of the Indian state of Kashmir by the Indian establishment. So much for a cogent and substantiated argument.

I would urge you to educate yourself about what happened in Rwanda or Kosovo or CAR or any number of conflicts throughout history.

Once you attain that education, you should compare that to the behavior of Indian security forces in Kashmir and their use of mass rapes, mass executions, torture, etc.

If you are intellectually honest, you will see that the pattern fits.

As for the "pseudo-legalese", that's just being my exacting and semantically correct self (well so far at least one of us seems to be adhering to what was insinuated by his good word), of course there is not much room for the practice of dialectics since you could not substantiate your claim otherwise we might have made Hegel proud.

There is nothing exacting or semantic in your post, since there is no substance.

Your post can be summarized much more succinctly as "la la la la ... I don't want to believe".

 

[Indo-guy]

It was right during Shimla agreement i.e. almost 4 decades back when Pakistan had unofficially reconciled with idea of solemnizing LOC as international border ....

It will be better for Pakistan to accept that It's impossible to redraw map of Kashmir now .

Sooner Pakistan becomes agreeable with those facts better it will be for everybody in the region ...

Current eyeball to eyeball deployment on both sides of LOC is draining huge burden on economies on both sides ...
Indian economy can with stand it ... what about Pakistan's economy which is being kept afloat with American doles ?

 

[Vinod2070]

One can see that the biggest rapine and genocide in the world after WW-2 is not listed here!

And as one has seen the anger of the same people when a perpetrator of that rapine and genocide was recently lawfully hanged by the BD government, these acts by themselves don't cause any consternation to these people.

In fact they support the perpetrators on every occasion. The criteria only being that the perpetrators should be on the "right side".

 

[Dillinger]

I would urge you to educate yourself about what happened in Rwanda or Kosovo or CAR or any number of conflicts throughout history.

Once you attain that education, you should compare that to the behavior of Indian security forces in Kashmir and their use of mass rapes, mass executions, torture, etc.

If you are intellectually honest, you will see that the pattern fits.



There is nothing exacting or semantic in your post, since there is no substance.

Your post can be summarized much more succinctly as "la la la la ... I don't want to believe".

But I have never stated that I would not believe your assertions, I simply invited you to substantiate your EXACT claim pertaining specifically to the use of the IA formations stationed at the AGPL in a doctrine of psychological warfare. You must remember, you made said EXACT assertion in as many words.


You had the simple task of proving that the missteps and aberrations documented are a direct result of your EXACT assertion, a simple enough exercise if your assertion has been accurate.


THAT is what it means to be exacting and semantically accurate, to restrict the argument to the specific assertions which constitute it and the specific terminology used therein. Not to deviate and attempt to prove some general point or rain down further assertions in support of the original assertion.

In fact by dint of the nature of your claim we shouldn't even be discussing missteps which have occurred at the hands of the RR or the State Police since it is specifically linked to the forces at the AGPL which don't even operate in the valley. The rest is a matter for a whole different argument altogether pertaining to the conduct of the paramil and RR which while valid in the larger context of the argument over Kashmir is simply not in context of your assertion.

 

[Indo-guy]

One can see that the biggest rapine and genocide in the world after WW-2 is not listed here!

And as one has seen the anger of the same people when a perpetrator of that rapine and genocide was recently lawfully hanged by the BD government, these acts by themselves don't cause any consternation to these people.

In fact they support the perpetrators on every occasion. The criteria only being that the perpetrators should be on the "right side".

Pakistan is yet to acknowledge and apologize for the carnage and pogrom of millions of Bengalis ....
and they want to indict India for stray incidents of rapes and killings in Kashmir ..which again are largely collateral effect of response to their proxy war ....

 

[Developereo]

But I have never stated that I would not believe your assertions, I simply invited you to substantiate your EXACT claim pertaining specifically to the use of the IA formations stationed at the AGPL in a doctrine of psychological warfare. You must remember, you made said EXACT assertion in as many words.


You had the simple task of proving that the missteps and aberrations documented are a direct result of your EXACT assertion, a simple enough exercise if your assertion has been accurate.


THAT is what it means to be exacting and semantically accurate, to restrict the argument to the specific assertions which constitute it and the specific terminology used therein. Not to deviate and attempt to prove some general point or rain down further assertions in support of the original assertion.

Then the fault lies with YOUR memory or English comprehension skills, since I already explained my assertion and the role of the larger Indian army in this context.

The psychological humiliation is intended to impress upon Kashmiri civilians that nothing is off-limits for the Indian security forces in their brutality. The larger army is there to make it clear that the local security forces have plenty of backup in case of trouble.

Once again, spouting pseudo-legalese or typing things in bold and red font won't make your argument any stronger since, as usual, there is no actual substance.

 

[Dillinger]

Then the fault lies with YOUR memory since I already explained my assertion and the role of the larger Indian army in this context.

Perhaps your memory is even spottier since I already dealt with said attempt at substantiation.


The content of said attempt simply talks of how the missteps of forces deployed in the valley can have a negative effect on the psyche of some of the people there. No where did it deal with your exact assertion that the forces at the AGPL being involved in psychological warfare or intimidation and that they have been deployed there for that very purpose. In fact there wasn't even a mention of how the large number of troops at the AGPL/LoC create an environment of intimidation rather it simply refers to the "larger army" in some vague attempt at engorging the number of active personnel in the valley, it just mentions the unfortunate missteps which have occurred in the Indian state of Kashmir due to the exhausting and protracted nature of the insurgency there.



Again, your argument was analyzed and found wanting at that very point in the exchange itself. Surely you did not then dispense of your original assertion and venture to formulate other assertions, a rather disingenuous move that would be.

 

[Vinod2070]

Pakistan is yet to acknowledge and apologize for the carnage and pogrom of millions of Bengalis ....
and they want to indict India for stray incidents of rapes and killings in Kashmir ..which again are largely collateral effect of response to their proxy war ....

Anyway most of them are perpetrated by Pakistani terrorists.

Pakistan pushed hardened Islamist Afghan terrorists into Kashmir just after the Soviet withdrawal. They perpetrated massive atrocities on Kashmiris for the short time they were there before being kicked out or dispatched by our army.

They would enter a house and demand to be fed and spend the night with the woman in the house! For them it was yet another instance of "booty".

The blame for every single death and rape in Kashmir goes to Pakistan's hare brained but ruthless policy of using terror to get Kashmir when they couldn't get it by war.

Even when the terror failed to get Kashmir, they just continue using them as pawns.

As a Kashmiri leader put it, they want to fight to the last Kashmiri while the PA manages it's business enterprise (bakeries and real estate business etc.) and not really fight to get it...

 

[Developereo]

Perhaps your memory is even spottier since I already dealt with said attempt at substantiation.


The content of said attempt simply talks of how the missteps of forces deployed in the valley can have a negative effect on the psyche of some of the people there. No where did it deal with your exact assertion that the forces at the AGPL being involved in psychological warfare or intimidation and that they have been deployed there for that very purpose. In fact there wasn't even a mention of how the large number of troops at the AGPL/LoC create an environment o intimation, it just mentions the unfortunate missteps which have occurred in the Indian state of Kashmir due to the nature and protracted nature of the insurgency there.



Again, your argument was analyzed and found wanting at that very point in the exchange itself. Surely you did not then dispense of your original assertion and venture to formulate other assertions, a rather disingenuous move that would be.

What part of "serve as potential backup" do you have trouble understanding?

When a law enforcement officer delivers a warrant to an accused, he goes in with the assurance that there is backup behind him.

When a civilian diplomat delivers an ultimatum to a foreign country, he goes in with the assurance that he is backed by the full military might of his country.

Just because the backup is not physically present at the scene is irrelevant. That's why it's called a 'backup'.

Shall I provide you with an English dictionary to alleviate your difficulties with plain English?

 

[Dillinger]

What part of "serve as potential backup" do you have trouble understanding?

Shall I provide you with an English dictionary to alleviate your difficulties with plain English?

You will have to pardon me, I had to edit my previous post, apparently ashing all over one's self due to a sneeze can make one absent minded and force one to lose track of the argument. Do re-read the post and then direct a reply towards me.