Is tide turning finally ? Angry mob sets ablaze house of Lashkar operative in Kashmir

[Indischer]

Brahmin army canteen:

What is that Brahmin on the extreme right in the foreground doing? Looks like he's digging for some hidden IEDs.

What evidence?

An alleged claim by someone obtained under possible torture by Indian police?

So what exactly constitutes as evidence to you? A press conference called by a stone pelter for a voluntary confession? Let me know how many Pakistani criminals follow this route.

 

[Robinhood Pandey]

What is that Brahmin on the extreme right in the foreground doing? Looks like he's digging for some hidden IEDs.

No its miniaturised thermonuclear booger

 

[Dillinger]

Sure, I can walk you through the steps since you have trouble making the connections.

Q1: Is the Kashmir insurgency fueled by foreigners? (you guys claim yes).
Q2: Is the army's job to guard against foreign threats? (yes)
Q3: If authorities declare that trouble in the valley is being fomented by foreigners, will it become the army's role to intervene?



Irrelevant. The question is whether the army can be involved if needed.

And unfortunately that's where you fall.


The army operates at the AGPL thereby protecting the valley without being in the valley itself. So yes its job is to guard against foreign threats and its doing so at the AGPL. Your logic might have held some water if Pakistan removed its troops from Pakistan held Kashmir. Whereby we could if we wanted to redeploy the formations at the AGPL to do all the nefarious things we dream of in the valley.


The RR operates within the valley among other places along with the state police. The RR and the state police do not fall under the IA's chain of command.


"The army can be involved if needed" does not substantiate your claim that it has been specifically stationed at the AGPL as part of some psychological warfare doctrine or for intimidation. The connection between proximity of deployment and doctrine of intimidation has not been alloyed with hard data on the same. That is where your argument remains incomplete. My opinion on the matter too is irrelevant, its not my opinion which matters but the presenting of proof on your part which will then force me to accept your opinion as valid which matters.



Now you will excuse me. I must sleep as I was telling my compatriot. We shall continue this later in the day, perhaps by then you will have re-read my posts and provided cogent and substantive proof to back your claim.

What is that Brahmin on the extreme right in the foreground doing? Looks like he's digging for some hidden IEDs.


So what exactly constitutes as evidence to you? A press conference called by a stone pelter for a voluntary confession? Let me know how many Pakistani criminals follow this route.

He's just finished burying the cadaver of some innocent dalit.

 

[Indischer]

No its miniaturised thermonuclear booger

Fire in the Hole!!!

 

[Peshwa]

Brahmin army canteen:

LOL @ the guy in the right caught in the act mid pick...Digging for some gold eh Pandit??!!

 

[Developereo]

And unfortunately that's where you fall.


The army operates at the AGPL thereby protecting the valley without being in the valley itself. So yes its job is to guard against foreign threats and its doing so at the AGPL. Your logic might have held some water if Pakistan removed its troops from Pakistan held Kashmir. Whereby we could if we wanted to redeploy the formations at the AGPL to do all the nefarious things we dream of in the valley.


The RR operates within the valley among other places along with the state police. The RR and the state police do not fall under the IA's chain of command.

Yes, the primary responsibility falls to the local police and the RR, but my whole point here is what happens when the situation exceeds their capability?

Never mind your belief that this can never happen and they will handle all scenarios. What happens if they get overwhelmed?

Surely there are contingency plans for such extreme scenarios?

Will the army just sit idly by and let the Valley burn?

That is why I keep referring to the army as a backup. I never claimed they would be the first line of action in the Valley.

So what exactly constitutes as evidence to you? A press conference called by a stone pelter for a voluntary confession? Let me know how many Pakistani criminals follow this route.

I don't deny that there might be some individuals who get paid, but that doesn't change the fact that there is a groundswell of support for the independence movement locally. All those youths cheering Pakistan over India were paid?

 

[Indischer]

I don't deny that there might be some individuals who get paid, but that doesn't change the fact that there is a groundswell of support for the independence movement locally. All those youths cheering Pakistan over India were paid?

This 'groundswell' of support is restricted to the Kashmir valley alone, which has something like 30% of the total population of J&K. By no means is it a majoritarian view there.

Regarding those kids, supporting Pakistan is one of the ways they get to rub the Indian kids the wrong way. But they did not break any law as such. The stone pelters did though, and hence had to be interrogated by the Police.

 

[Peshwa]

Yes, the primary responsibility falls to the local police and the RR, but my whole point here is what happens when the situation exceeds their capability?

Never mind your belief that this can never happen and they will handle all scenarios. What happens if they get overwhelmed?

Surely there are contingency plans for such extreme scenarios?

Will the army just sit idly by and let the Valley burn?

That is why I keep referring to the army as a backup. I never claimed they would be the first line of action in the Valley.

If i may interject...We believe that excesses have occoured in J&K (acts of individuals, not a state or armed forces policy)...these excesses did cause a psychological impact on its victims...I believe we all are here with you...

However, your logic lacks a connection when you state that the armed forces endorse such behavior or validate the stand of the erring soldiers (who by the way are punished for their crimes)...where is this proof of endorsement?

Proof in your case being that since the armed forces are present in the state of J&K, so they must be there to back up the heinous acts of some undisciplined members of a massive organization, definitely NOT doing their job which is to protect Kashmir from an adventurous Pakistan and its fanatical punjabi freedom fighters....yeah thats undeniable proof and logic!

The army (majority on the border) and Police + RR (responsible for policing the state) are simply doing their job ie. the former guarding the border and latter maintaining law and order..
The job is to protect the state of J&K from external or internal enemies....i hope now we can expect that proof lingering around for the last 5 pages of this thread?

 

[axisofevil]

Yes Indian army converts all the muslims, sikhs, chirstians, and other low caste hindus to brahmins before they join Indian brahmin army.

Also Indian Shipyards converted this poor muslim into brahmin before he joined it.

Damn this pic shows we are behind shipbuilding tech.

Why wont Congress repeal article 370? It is time for Kashmir to be accepted us a part of us.

 

[axisofevil]

Let's keep it real. The whole Caste system the way it was being used not 2000 yrs ago which we cannot verify but in the 19th and 20th century, was a complete utter disgrace. Brahmins worked hand in hand with the Mughals to make a buck and preserve their skin. Not all but most....the worst part about it is that there has been no effective change in that mindset to change Hinduism to get rid of the caste system or modify it fairly. You cant blame lower castes for fleeing to other religions if you are not willing to accept that at one point, Hinduism was flawed and that;s why Buddhism blossomed BIG TIME>


Accept the reality, change it, and reap the benefits...

 

[he-man]

Let's keep it real. The whole Caste system the way it was being used not 2000 yrs ago which we cannot verify but in the 19th and 20th century, was a complete utter disgrace. Brahmins worked hand in hand with the Mughals to make a buck and preserve their skin. Not all but most....the worst part about it is that there has been no effective change in that mindset to change Hinduism to get rid of the caste system or modify it fairly. You cant blame lower castes for fleeing to other religions if you are not willing to accept that at one point, Hinduism was flawed and that;s why Buddhism blossomed BIG TIME>


Accept the reality, change it, and reap the benefits...

U guys are just stupid.
No one wants to forgo their lower caste status because


THERE IS 50 PERCENT RESERVATION IN EDUCATION INSTITUTES AND GOVT JOBS FOR LOWER CASTES.

So much so for discrimination

 

[Developereo]

However, your logic lacks a connection when you state that the armed forces endorse such behavior or validate the stand of the erring soldiers (who by the way are punished for their crimes)...where is this proof of endorsement?

If you read the link I posted, it talks about the lack of prosecution of alleged culprits. Also, the abuse was systematic and widespread, so much so that, according to Wikileaks, US diplomats in India privately discussed it.

Proof in your case being that since the armed forces are present in the state of J&K, so they must be there to back up the heinous acts of some undisciplined members of a massive organization, definitely NOT doing their job which is to protect Kashmir from an adventurous Pakistan and its fanatical punjabi freedom fighters....yeah thats undeniable proof and logic!

Once again, the army's role is to exert psychological pressure..

Let me explain.

When animals are "trained" in some parts, they are punished using electric prods which inflict intense pain. Once the animal is conditioned, the "trainer" only needs to use a wooden stick. The animal reacts the same way because it has been psychologically conditioned to fear the stick -- even though the.stick itself may never be used.

In this context, the IA was directly involved in brutalizing Kashmiri civilians in the past. The current set up may put the RR and local police as the front line, but the IA still remains close by. The AFSPA still authorizes the army get involved if need be. Whether the army will or will not is irrelevant. The Kashmiri civilians are not going to bet on what the private contingency plans of IA are either way.

The point is that, due to past behavior and current physical capability (due to proximity), the Kashmiri population has been conditioned to fear the army as a brutalizing force.

 

[Indo-guy]

I don't deny that there might be some individuals who get paid, but that doesn't change the fact that there is a groundswell of support for the independence movement locally. All those youths cheering Pakistan over India were paid?

Off course !

If you read the link I posted, it talks about the lack of prosecution of alleged culprits. Also, the abuse was systematic and widespread, so much so that, according to Wikileaks, US diplomats in India privately discussed it.



Once again, the army's role is to exert psychological pressure..

Let me explain.

When animals are "trained" in some parts, they are punished using electric prods which inflict intense pain. Once the animal is conditioned, the "trainer" only needs to use a wooden stick. The animal reacts the same way because it has been psychologically conditioned to fear the stick -- even though the.stick itself may never be used.

In this context, the IA was directly involved in brutalizing Kashmiri civilians in the past. The current set up may put the RR and local police as the front line, but the IA still remains close by. The AFSPA still authorizes the army get involved if need be. Whether the army will or will not is irrelevant. The Kashmiri civilians are not going to bet on what the private contingency plans of IA are either way.

The point is that, due to past behavior and current physical capability (due to proximity), the Kashmiri population has been conditioned to fear the army as a brutalizing force.

You yourself agreed that some collateral damage is inevitable in such protracted low intensity conflict especially when Pakistan is instigating the transborder insurgency continuously .

Your contention that it's systematized and purposeful is your wishful thinking .

India has no choice but to deploy its security in ample number at LOC ..thanks to Pakistan.

There is only one country to be blamed for the mess in Kashmir....and that's Pakistan !!!

 

[axisofevil]

U guys are just stupid.
No one wants to forgo their lower caste status because


THERE IS 50 PERCENT RESERVATION IN EDUCATION INSTITUTES AND GOVT JOBS FOR LOWER CASTES.

So much so for discrimination

So you think that is the solution to helping India? Reservation? Even hindus who convert to Islam get to keep their reservation, so much for progress

 

[Developereo]

Your contention that it's systematized and purposeful is your wishful thinking

It is the conclusion of independent international organizations.

Indian report confirms hundreds of occupation troops indulged in torture in Kashmir, Crescent-Online.net, Crescent Magazine

the ICRC [ International Committee of the Red Cross] raised concerns about the use of electrocution, beatings and sexual humiliation against hundreds of detainees. American diplomats are also shown in the cables to have expressed concern about widespread human rights abuses by Indian security forces.

Of course, we don't expect you guys to acknowledge any of it.