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Is it right to attack South Waziristan now?

Is it right to attack south waziristan now??

  • yes

    Votes: 43 52.4%
  • no

    Votes: 28 34.1%
  • listen to america

    Votes: 5 6.1%
  • after few days

    Votes: 6 7.3%

  • Total voters
    82
  • Poll closed .
i have better suggestion, nuke, blow apart pakistan, kill all pakistanis balochistan, NWFP etc, thats what army should do now a nice leason from 1971. and there we see azad balochistan, azad pukhtunkwa movements tehreek

i am freakin laughin how we are making a mince meat of pakistan

No need to be a freak, all the issues will be dealt properly by the people of Pakistan who cares for it.....and my dear this is what our enemy wants......they want to lower our morals. Dont show ur emotions to ur enemies................!!!!!
 
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Afghan government is rubber stamp of US dont represent the majority of Afghans , Afghan will never accept any planted government that is reason they are fighting to liberate their country from US clinches.

You know there was no insurgency in Pakistan before US aggression.US has no right to crush the will of Afghans with force.

Both waring faction not ready to listen any peace talk let them fightand decide , but we should protect Afghan women and children and elders , they are our guest .

These Afghans will provide the pressure for their rubber stamp covt. to work. We can still support them when they are on the other side of the border.
 
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^ Batmannow...

U left most critical thing. INTEL :) CoAS has said that SWA is an intel blackhole.

DeAr. PakShaheen79.!

COME ON, if we doesnt had the intell how can a "DAM DRONE" can have a kill like , BM?;):pakistan::tup:
dear its not neccecry to post everything, plz understand it!;):azn:
 
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if it was so straight-forward to march in SWA and clear the TTP ********, this would have happened by now. ground realities haven't changed because of the event in pindi. the army is slowly but surely targeting the mehsud-clowns on a daily basis from the skies. kohat, peshawar, and the deras must be patrolled heavily to mop up any of these tribal miscreants escaping their primitive existance into the settled areas of Pakistan. no need to risk our soldiers in the unsuitable terrain of SWA.
 
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The terrorists throughout the world try to provoke the government by launching brazen attacks. it is a technique. they want the governments to retaliate with fury and huge firepower. as a result many civilians get killed and they find their recruits. this was done by ETA and latin american terrorists groups. and Taliban are also using the same technique. I hope PA wont be trapped and will fight on its own terms.
 
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Hi,

Now is as good a time---the ttp will have a terrible time on the run out in the cold----the millitary will survive.

The millitary needs to make a major push for 15 days---make the ttp run out of their hideouts---destroy their weapons and resources and then deploy back to the lower levels---keeping the air strike options open---and then start the next phase of ground attack at the start of spring.

I personally think that there will be some movement coming from the army---if not---it will give time to the ttp to re-group.
 
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Now or never for Waziristan push?




By M Ilyas Khan
BBC News, Islamabad


The announcement that an army ground offensive had been ordered in South Waziristan tribal region was made by the Governor of Pakistan's North West Frontier Province on 15 June.

Four months later, the army is still waiting for the right time to move in.

"The government has taken [a decision in principle]… but it's now a matter of military judgment as to what will be the appropriate time," the chief army spokesman, Maj Gen Athar Abbas, said at a news briefing on Monday.

So what exactly has held back the army so far?

Doubts about the fate of the operation emerged just a week after Governor Owais Ahmad Ghani's announcement when a pro-government militant leader, apparently being groomed by the army to defeat and replace militant commander Baitullah Mehsud, was assassinated.

Baitullah Mehsud himself was killed in a suspected US drone strike in August.

Plagued by delays

His death led some security analysts to suggest that there was now no need for a full-blown operation, and that small-scale, localised action would take care of the menace.


Fighting the Baitullah Mehsud group could suck in other factions
But recent informal briefings held by the army's top brass for members of the media spell out a range of reasons why the Waziristan operation has suffered delays.

The impression being conveyed is that the country's civilian government has not been quick enough to rehabilitate the system of administration in areas cleared of militants.

As a result, the argument goes, the army has not been able to free up troops for operations in other areas.

For example, declare these officials, the army is still not properly prepared for an offensive in South Waziristan, which they say is far more dangerous than other regions.

In Swat and other parts of Malakand, where the army launched a successful operation in early June, these officials say the government has still not beefed up the local police force or filled the judicial vacuum in the area.

Easier terrain

As a result, the army continues to be involved in combating remnants of militant groups for fear that if it thins its presence, the gunmen may stage a comeback.

In addition, the army carries the "logistical burden" of about 8,000 arrested militants.


Many civilians have already fled South Waziristan
The army says it is holding these militants because police could not cope with such a number.

Furthermore, the courts and anti-terrorism laws are inadequate to carry out trials, or achieve convictions.

This loss of time has brought us to the verge of winter, which is not the right time to start a ground offensive in Waziristan, says the military.

But there are counter-arguments that call the army's declared reasons into question.

First, the terrain in the north-eastern parts of South Waziristan, which is envisaged to be the main theatre of war, is not as difficult as that in Malakand.

Thick forest cover and lots of water made nearly the entire Malakand region suitable for militants to create hideouts and to lie low there for longer periods.

But South Waziristan is an arid zone, with no forest and little water.

Second, the likely war zone in South Waziristan is sparsely populated, and most of the population has already left the area, effectively cutting the possibility of civilian casualties.

Third, the troops deployed in the South Waziristan region are more than twice the numbers that conducted the Malakand operation, even though the area of the combat zone is smaller.

Hornet's nest

Fourth, the army has had the experience of operating in Waziristan since 2002, whereas it was a complete stranger to the Malakand region.

Fifth, the winters in the Mehsud area of South Waziristan are not as harsh as in some other areas and have not prevented the army from conducting operations there in the recent past.


This analyst says America is not happy with the Pakistani army
Given these factors, security analysts believe there may be two main reasons why the army is yet to implement its decision to go after this destructive ground-zero of al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Pakistan.

Any action against the Baitullah Mehsud group in South Waziristan could draw in to the conflict militant groups based in the Wazir tribal areas of South and North Waziristan.

These groups are part of the al-Qaeda affiliated Haqqani network, and have peace agreements with the army.

They have so far concentrated exclusively on fighting inside Afghanistan, and many analysts consider their activities central to the army's perceived security interests in Afghanistan.

Any hostilities with them may harm these interests, analysts say.

Another reason may well have been the so-called Kerry-Lugar bill which promises $1.5bn (£0.95bn) in annual aid to Pakistan for the next five years.

The bill, which has been in the works for well over a year, has become hugely controversial recently due to some clauses that the military look upon as detrimental to its interests.

Last week, the army publicly denounced the bill at a time when the government was defending it, thereby sparking a rift within the political establishment.

"The language of the bill is reflective of American disapproval of the Pakistani army, and may well cause the army to rethink its entire anti-militancy strategy," says Mehmood Shah, a defence analyst and retired Pakistani army brigadier.

But while the army considers its options for a re-think, attacks such as the one on its central headquarters in Rawalpindi on 10 October indicate that the options it has are indeed limited, and time is running out.
 
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We have lost the element of surprise and now would not a good time to attack the militants there. We need to wait for the right time to move against them.
 
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We have lost the element of surprise and now would not a good time to attack the militants there. We need to wait for the right time to move against them.

I dont think this is not right strategy , either PA should attack or make peace deal.

There is no third option , because then militants will think PA is weak .
 
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Hi,

Now is as good a time---the ttp will have a terrible time on the run out in the cold----the millitary will survive.

The millitary needs to make a major push for 15 days---make the ttp run out of their hideouts---destroy their weapons and resources and then deploy back to the lower levels---keeping the air strike options open---and then start the next phase of ground attack at the start of spring.

I personally think that there will be some movement coming from the army---if not---it will give time to the ttp to re-group.

MK,

Can you tell us why Musharaf failed in wana ?

It is most dangrous area for any army , UK had also bad experience .Our generals need to learn from history.

This war will be long term war may spread in other part Pakistan.

There is possibility they will also attack on all army garrision mostly located near major cities.

Whole country will become battle ground.

We should be ready for 71 statuation , there is also danger that india will attack on soft belly to divide Pakistan into two pices.

It is very easy sitting in US to give suggestion better visit tribel areas to get real taste of problem of local people .

GOP is penny wise and pound foolish:D
 
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The issue is that if we let the terrorists retain territory, they can inflict a barrage of bombings and terrorist attacks from a lot of bases of operations...

Destroying their infrastructure will severely limit their capabilities though of course you cannot finish this 100% without focusing on the non military aspects like the rehabilitation, infrastructure development, local leadership restoration and civil law and order restoration etc.

Regarding the timing of the operation, winter can help Pakistan Army if the TTP strongholds can be torn asunder and TTP made to run in the winter, however this can backfire since mobility of PA will be limited and TTP are more mobile as a consequence of their tactics...still the air assets will definitely change the balance in our favour...extensive use of air assets on the other hand will generate a huge bill...current economic situation dictates otherwise...
I guess the decision is rightly the Army's alone since none of us know better than them what they can do here and when...

The strategy should be to

1) Eliminate maximum terrorists in the initial phase by attacking those areas with maximum concentration of terrorists...the overwhelming firepower of PA and PAF in the initial phase can make a statement to the tribals who are neutral...they will never wanna pick the losing side...the psychological aspect of the assault should be measured and critically analyzed...this is the part which will matter a lot...how best to intimidate the neutral party into abandoning any hope of a TTP victory...

2) Apprehend the leaders where ever possible and humiliate them via propaganda interviews and confessions etc. this shall demoralize the terrorists who will lose face...

3) Destroy the training and operational facilities but also look for evidence of the exact nature of the terrorist outfit...

4) Protect the tribals from the avenging terrorist hordes.

5) Protect the friendly Chieftains and give them maximum coverage via media as legitimate voice of their people and entirely opposed to TTP mindset of death and destruction...this shall once again shut up the TTP mouthpieces and turn the average Pakistani in the right direction.

6) Government should provide for ration distribution points and other such measures to offload the Army and be seen as the government of the tribals as well...not everything should be left to the Army as in Swat...

7) Permanently Isolate the terrorists from the locals by soft means like infrastructure development and assistance projects, this should also be done by GOP and not added to the PA scope of work, PA needs maximum men to fight in this theater...

8) GOP should create very modern 2 Garrisons in this area and provide a good road network to support the locals against the TTP.
In long term these should be our defense against any Insurgents who manage to cross the Pakistan Afghan Border in order to harm Pakistan and its citizens...the roads and all additional infrastructure shall only make the people have better facilities in their lives...this is a god given opportunity to develop Waziristan and should not be wasted.

Doing all of the above requires big spending and therefore one thing holding PA back could be the cash to wage the war till its positive conclusion in favor of Pakistan...a half botched attempt will be terrible in consequences...

This is the reason the TTP is so hyper these days, they can be playing a double bluff as well, to entice PA into a premature action...i frankly admit that to me sitting here...somethings are quite murky and i have to trust PA here above all experts...
PA needs to make its best judgment in favor of Pakistan regardless of any outside political pressure
 
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The issue is that if we let the terrorists retain territory, they can inflict a barrage of bombings and terrorist attacks from a lot of bases of operations...

Destroying their infrastructure will severely limit their capabilities though of course you cannot finish this 100% without focusing on the non military aspects like the rehabilitation, infrastructure development, local leadership restoration and civil law and order restoration etc.

Regarding the timing of the operation, winter can help Pakistan Army if the TTP strongholds can be torn asunder and TTP made to run in the winter, however this can backfire since mobility of PA will be limited and TTP are more mobile as a consequence of their tactics...still the air assets will definitely change the balance in our favour...extensive use of air assets on the other hand will generate a huge bill...current economic situation dictates otherwise...
I guess the decision is rightly the Army's alone since none of us know better than them what they can do here and when...

The strategy should be to

1) Eliminate maximum terrorists in the initial phase by attacking those areas with maximum concentration of terrorists...the overwhelming firepower of PA and PAF in the initial phase can make a statement to the tribals who are neutral...they will never wanna pick the losing side...the psychological aspect of the assault should be measured and critically analyzed...this is the part which will matter a lot...how best to intimidate the neutral party into abandoning any hope of a TTP victory...

2) Apprehend the leaders where ever possible and humiliate them via propaganda interviews and confessions etc. this shall demoralize the terrorists who will lose face...

3) Destroy the training and operational facilities but also look for evidence of the exact nature of the terrorist outfit...

4) Protect the tribals from the avenging terrorist hordes.

5) Protect the friendly Chieftains and give them maximum coverage via media as legitimate voice of their people and entirely opposed to TTP mindset of death and destruction...this shall once again shut up the TTP mouthpieces and turn the average Pakistani in the right direction.

6) Government should provide for ration distribution points and other such measures to offload the Army and be seen as the government of the tribals as well...not everything should be left to the Army as in Swat...

7) Permanently Isolate the terrorists from the locals by soft means like infrastructure development and assistance projects, this should also be done by GOP and not added to the PA scope of work, PA needs maximum men to fight in this theater...

8) GOP should create very modern 2 Garrisons in this area and provide a good road network to support the locals against the TTP.
In long term these should be our defense against any Insurgents who manage to cross the Pakistan Afghan Border in order to harm Pakistan and its citizens...the roads and all additional infrastructure shall only make the people have better facilities in their lives...this is a god given opportunity to develop Waziristan and should not be wasted.

Doing all of the above requires big spending and therefore one thing holding PA back could be the cash to wage the war till its positive conclusion in favor of Pakistan...a half botched attempt will be terrible in consequences...

This is the reason the TTP is so hyper these days, they can be playing a double bluff as well, to entice PA into a premature action...i frankly admit that to me sitting here...somethings are quite murky and i have to trust PA here above all experts...
PA needs to make its best judgment in favor of Pakistan regardless of any outside political pressure

All Green,

You suggestions are not practical , US trying to achive their objective in Afghanistan by using all these tactics in last eight years but failed because local population is not supporting them.

FATA can not be conqoured through bullet better we use suger to kill the enemy.:D
 
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Lobby against pakistan want to remove actually maximum amount of military and military hardware move from eastren (Indian) side to Westren (Afghanistan) Side. quote my word! India iinterference (Fundd and increase terrorism inside pakistan from Indian border side) in Pakistan more after when we wll start Operation over Wazirstan.
 
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MK,

Can you tell us why Musharaf failed in wana ?

It is most dangrous area for any army , UK had also bad experience .Our generals need to learn from history.

This war will be long term war may spread in other part Pakistan.

There is possibility they will also attack on all army garrision mostly located near major cities.

Whole country will become battle ground.

We should be ready for 71 statuation , there is also danger that india will attack on soft belly to divide Pakistan into two pices.

It is very easy sitting in US to give suggestion better visit tribel areas to get real taste of problem of local people .

GOP is penny wise and pound foolish:D

The irony i see is that despite your concerns which mostly are also my concerns...one thing is certain...an undeniable truth hanging like a sword over all our heads...

War is upon us...whether we fight or avoid it...TTP will not surrender till we squeeze the life out of them...they are not our patriotic tribals...they are all criminals, terrorists and rogue chieftains who have found a common cause...which is money and power...

Already they are doing maximum damage and the reason is that they have funds to support not just a 100 but thousands of terrorists...had they been 100 or even 1000, i would have thought we could have avoided a war and instead just used our tribes to eliminate them but it is way more complex than that now...the proverbial S*it has hit the fan...

In case of operation at least PA will sacrifice itself and earn Shahadat by facing such Terrorists and saving the ordinary citizen who is being targeted anyways...the TTP will have to fight PA seriously unlike any enemy they have faced before...i think we can all agree with that...this shall of course hamper TTP terrorism spree...

Regarding the failure of previous WANA operation, we relied too much on FC and too little on the tribes, the reason is not just failure of GOP but even the tribes did not cooperate that much since they were seduced by the cunning TTP claims of Islamic brotherhood, anti US struggle etc. TTP was till then not openly claiming its hand in the assassinations and other nefarious activity going on in the tribal areas...this was declared more openly when TTP got Swat under their control...by then it was too late
 
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All Green,

You suggestions are not practical , US trying to achive their objective in Afghanistan by using all these tactics in last eight years but failed because local population is not supporting them.

FATA can not be conqoured through bullet better we use suger to kill the enemy.:D

Fundamentalist,

FATA is Pakistan not TTPistan...we are not invaders...we are not conquerors...
We are the rescue party...

My suggestions are not impractical because we are not US...we are Pakistan...huge difference my friend...

You do know that many tribals are still loyal Pakistanis, right?
They just need some help from PA...TTP has a lot of funding and firepower but they have never faced PA full might...

I dare say PA can do a lot more than US ... because PA will be in its home ground...for every 1 person who hates PA...there will be 10 who love PA...US failed because most of Afghans hate their presence...simple as that...
 
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