Is a Secular Pakistan the solution?

[HariPrasad]

Sheikh Rauf said.



Buddy i am not here to argue i gave you my idea and i will stick to it .. i am not here to change you or going to change my self.. thats what called democracy..
yes Sharia Law is better than anything if you are honestly read about it. our Khulafa e Rashdeen had that. we cant be like them but we can try.
Pakistan is Islamic country majority of people wants it. too bad some cant have their western agenda of secularism. I suggest you to calm down and accept the reality.

Too bad your idea of Pakistan is NOT what Jinnah wanted.

yeah Shariah Law is doing quite well in Saudia Arabia, Women can't even get out of their houses without wearing Burqas 24/7, they can't sing, can't drive, can't DO ANYTHING literally, I went to Saudia some years ago, and its a living hell for women there, they have no rights NOTHING AT ALL. its people like you and their distorted views that are ruining our society. WE CAN'T ENFORCE ANYTHING ON ANYONE, Pakistan was never meant to be a Islamic State, State should have nothing to do with Religion.


Democracy and Shariah rules can't survive together.

Either Pakistan should get rid of Democracy and impose Shariah Law and become another Saudia Arabia.

OR

Become completely secular like Jinnah wanted.[/QUOTE]


It is very nice to see that People like you is on forum who can speak truth. Actually Pakistan is a very vibrant coutry with rich culture and history. Those desert codes will have utter mismatch with culture of Pakistan. Pakistan need to emerge as the secular vibrant multicultural, multi ethnic democracy. that is the only way of welfare for Pakistan and not other.

 

[M.SAAD]

Islam and current Pakistan claiming to be an Islamic country are at 180 degree angle from each other. There is no Islam in Pakistan (exceptions on individual level are not counted), and honestly typing we never wanted Islam to be our guiding source, at least our actions don't suggest that. I would rather say it's a hypocrite state with Islam attached to its name but nothing Islamic about it. And current state of our moral affairs is more than what Secular extremists of Pakistan could wish for.

Exactly !!!

 

[I.R.A]

Exactly !!!

And buddy you must be aware of why Jinnah chose Lincoln's Inn over other Inns of court.................

 

[Gibbs]

Well, I dont know mate, it was conducted by US research center. Pew research Center. There is no Iran also. But few years back Iran was included. 40 percent something Iranian do pray 5 times daily, even much less than Indonesian which is not even an Islamic republic.

I believe Madinah Chapter during prophet Muhammad time is quite close with our Pancasila (ideology)

Pancha Sila is originally a Buddhist concept.. The five precepts are the basis of Buddhist morality

Lay Buddhist Vows - Five Precepts - Pancha Sila - Pansil - Buddha's world

Later on this concept was adopted by many nations as principals of governance, Including India and multi national organizations such as the non aligned movement

Both Java and Sumatra were Buddhist strongholds before the arrival of Islam, I guess this concept easily integrated with Islamic values

Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[B@KH]

Islam and current Pakistan claiming to be an Islamic country are at 180 degree angle from each other. There is no Islam in Pakistan (exceptions on individual level are not counted), and honestly typing we never wanted Islam to be our guiding source, at least our actions don't suggest that. I would rather say it's a hypocrite state with Islam attached to its name but nothing Islamic about it. And current state of our moral affairs is more than what Secular extremists of Pakistan could wish for.

the process to make it an Islamic state was initiated in the form of Objectives resolution but it was then blocked by the state itself to prepare grounds for wahabis. while people in those days were not aware what is wahabiism. If All sects get recognized, then wahabi hate and terror will have no grounds.

Pakistan was a very nice and peaceful Nation till it got infested by the Saudi wahabiism. Once it cut off relations with Saudi it will become a normal and peaceful country. till then have to wait.

 

[salarsikander]

the process to make it an Islamic state was initiated in the form of Objectives resolution but it was then blocked by the state itself to prepare grounds for wahabis. while people in those days were not aware what is wahabiism. If All sects get recognized, then wahabi hate and terror will have no grounds.

Pakistan was a very nice and peaceful Nation till it got infested by the Saudi wahabiism. Once it cut off relations with Saudi it will become a normal and peaceful country. till then have to wait.

Oh god not again with shia sunni bullshoit, serioulsy dont you ever get tired by crying ut for your master Iran ?

do not cry there is nothing shia or sunni.

All your posts are filled with hatred for arabs, for once get a life dude.
Iranii mullahs are no better and stop acting like their slave

 

[moisrar47]

Pakistan should have remained a republic indeed even if the majority were Muslim, so that everyone can have equal rights.But the past is the past. Now let's build our country instead of dreaming stuff that can't be done.

 

[KarachiNationalist]

It shall only remain a dream. Pakistanis have been radicalized beyond repair. The wahhabism that flooded Pakistan during the 70s and 80s seems to be irreversible. There are people in this country who still support taliban due to their Islamic ideology. Terrorists like Mumtaz Qadri are labelled as heroes by freaking lawyers who are supposed to be educated. Meanwhile people who fought for minorities and human rights like Salman Taseer are labelled wajib-ul-qatal and immediately eliminated. You have terrorists like Aamir Liaquat coming on national tv and preaching that Ahmadis should be killed. A secular Pakistan would be desirable but its not realistic unless we can magically get someone like Ataturk to completely change the country through force.

 

[KurdistanMujahid27]

Right now Pakistan is a sandwich between Islamic Pakistan and Secular Pakistan, We call ourselves Islamic Republic while we call our System Democratic System, thats ridiculous. We seriously need to redefine our path, either become pure Islamic state with No Democracy and Western Laws or Become a Secular Muslim Majority state like Jinnah visioned.

Pakistan should become a pure Islamic state based on the teachings of Ahlul-Hadeeth.

Chrsitians, Jews, Hundus, Budhist should pay jizya. Only a Sunni-Muslim can be in a leadership position.

Shiism should be completely banned because they insult Oum al Mumineen Aicha.

It shall only remain a dream. Pakistanis have been radicalized beyond repair. The wahhabism that flooded Pakistan during the 70s and 80s seems to be irreversible. There are people in this country who still support taliban due to their Islamic ideology. Terrorists like Mumtaz Qadri are labelled as heroes by freaking lawyers who are supposed to be educated. Meanwhile people who fought for minorities and human rights like Salman Taseer are labelled wajib-ul-qatal and immediately eliminated. You have terrorists like Aamir Liaquat coming on national tv and preaching that Ahmadis should be killed. A secular Pakistan would be desirable but its not realistic unless we can magically get someone like Ataturk to completely change the country through force.

Oke thus you want a secular-fascist Ataturk who is of a certain ethnicity and makes it mother tongue the only permisseble language in Pakistan or maes only Urdu the only permissible langugae and all other langugaes are banned.

You want a idiot who will replace the beautiful blessed (Perso)Arabic script with a cursed latin one (like atadog did).

Arabic language is forbidden and there is only secular education and woman are not allowed to wear a hijab and/or burqa.

Do you want this kind of things for your country.

Only a idiot and munafiq wants a secular state for muslims in this century.

 

[KarachiNationalist]

Oke thus you want a secular-fascist Ataturk who is of a certain ethnicity and makes it mother tongue the only permisseble language in Pakistan or maes only Urdu the only permissible langugae and all other langugaes are banned.

You want a idiot who will replace the beautiful blessed (Perso)Arabic script with a cursed latin one (like atadog did).

Urdu is already the national language, I don't care if all other languages are banned. Go to the Arab world if you love arabic that much. Ataturk gave his people an identity, an identity that would not be associated with the Wahhabi arabs.

Arabic language is forbidden and there is only secular education and woman are not allowed to wear a hijab and/or burqa.

Do you want this kind of things for your country.

Only a idiot and munafiq wants a secular state for muslims in this century.

Arabic has no place in Turkish society, they have their own beautiful culture which does not need the influence of Arabs. Hijabs are okay but burqas should be banned. I'm glad Turkey has taken such bold steps. Secularism is the way forward, Muslims will need to be enlightened and realize religion should not be mixed with politics. You are a Kurd so it's no wonder why you hate Turkey and Ataturk.

 

[I.R.A]

the process to make it an Islamic state was initiated in the form of Objectives resolution but it was then blocked by the state itself to prepare grounds for wahabis. while people in those days were not aware what is wahabiism. If All sects get recognized, then wahabi hate and terror will have no grounds.

Pakistan was a very nice and peaceful Nation till it got infested by the Saudi wahabiism. Once it cut off relations with Saudi it will become a normal and peaceful country. till then have to wait.

Being nice and peaceful is not the whole of Islam........................ And I would curse our politicians and governors more than any outsider. They were (are) the lawmakers they should have had careful watch over All these Allamas and Molvis who destroyed the brotherhood and took sectarianism to point of no return. Now the new generation believes what has been taught by those Allamas and Molvis and not what Islam has to say.

 

[B@KH]

Being nice and peaceful is not the whole of Islam........................ And I would curse our politicians and governors more than any outsider. They were (are) the lawmakers they should have had careful watch over All these Allamas and Molvis who destroyed the brotherhood and took sectarianism to point of no return. Now the new generation believes what has been taught by those Allamas and Molvis and not what Islam has to say.

It happens when currents and trends are imposed on the people due to their ignorance to make them submit and loyal by creating hundreds of Non-issues to keep them distracted. So this phenomenon not only infested Pak but many others too. it is pity that those who tried to save the Khilafat their grandsons are now the guardians and friends of the Enemies of their caliphate/khilafat and their own forefathers.

So no need to blame the allamas or molvis and to blame them is just stupidity. None of the Allama or Molvi or parliament or politician did Defence agreement with the wahabi kingdom without informing their nation.

Those who did the defence agreements with the wahabi kingdom without agreement and informing their nation and turn the entire nation to work as cheap Labour force for the sheikhdoms are the Real Culprits. Who Imposed misery on the 200 million strong nation full of resources. It is not Parliament but decisions of some individual sellouts who violated the constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan on guarantees and on behalf of wahabi+usa.

Sincere hands tried to make Pak an Islamic State and brought Objectives resolution but………. now the things are hands of wahabis and you can expect anything but Not peace and progress and prosperity for the People. They needed military that kept fine and now it has shown thumb they will decide some new things.

who made defence agreement for the whabai kingdom ? notpoliticians, notallamas,notpeople, and none of them is powered by petrodollars and hence they are bad. those who are powered by petrodollars are genius and good. This cannot continue like this now on.

 

[I.R.A]

It happens when currents and trends are imposed on the people due to their ignorance to make them submit and loyal by creating hundreds of Non-issues to keep them distracted. So this phenomenon not only infested Pak but many others too. it is pity that those who tried to save the Khilafat their grandsons are now the guardians and friends of the Enemies of their caliphate/khilafat and their own forefathers.

So no need to blame the allamas or molvis and to blame them is just stupidity. None of the Allama or Molvi or parliament or politician did Defence agreement with the wahabi kingdom without informing their nation.

Those who did the defence agreements with the wahabi kingdom without agreement and informing their nation and turn the entire nation to work as cheap Labour force for the sheikhdoms are the Real Culprits. Who Imposed misery on the 200 million strong nation full of resources. It is not Parliament but decisions of some individual sellouts who violated the constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan on guarantees and on behalf of wahabi+usa.

Sincere hands tried to make Pak an Islamic State and brought Objectives resolution but………. now the things are hands of wahabis and you can expect anything but Not peace and progress and prosperity for the People. They needed military that kept fine and now it has shown thumb they will decide some new things.

who made defence agreement for the whabai kingdom ? notpoliticians, notallamas,notpeople, and none of them is powered by petrodollars and hence they are bad. those who are powered by petrodollars are genius and good. This cannot continue like this now on.

I don't know who you are referring to in this bold sentence, but I find your defense of politicians and religious leaders (Allamas and Molvis) very thin. Most of these politicians who rule(d) Pakistan are by products of military dictators, nearly all of them are self serving thugs, and as far as Allamas and Molvis are concerned I have listened to some crazy sermons from both sides (I won't count exceptions here but still there are crazy lunatics).

And mainly its the people who are the main culprit because they themselves don't want to change things, they want to be divided on ethnic, linguistic, religious and cultural lines (NA-246 is a perfect example, not that I am fond of PTI or JI or any other party), people of Pakistan do their share of corruption and fraud to the extent they can.

Yes this cannot continue like this I agree, if we don't change ourselves than change is bound to happen its the law of nature.

 

[B@KH]

I don't know who you are referring to in this bold sentence, but I find your defense of politicians and religious leaders (Allamas and Molvis) very thin. Most of these politicians who rule(d) Pakistan are by products of military dictators, nearly all of them are self serving thugs, and as far as Allamas and Molvis are concerned I have listened to some crazy sermons from both sides (I won't count exceptions here but still there are crazy lunatics).
And mainly its the people who are the main culprit because they themselves don't want to change things, they want to be divided on ethnic, linguistic, religious and cultural lines (NA-246 is a perfect example, not that I am fond of PTI or JI or any other party), people of Pakistan do their share of corruption and fraud to the extent they can.
Yes this cannot continue like this I agree, if we don't change ourselves than change is bound to happen its the law of nature.

The defence of the wahabi kingdom is much thinner than defence of any other and those who talk about defending wahabi kingdom are criminals and need to be dealt with. Not only these politicians but many of these Allamas and Molvis are powered by petro dollars. Yeah ofcourse if people are not vigilant then others play with them and this is happening with our people. PTI even if it is sincere or JI or JUD or LT or taliban and many other too are just fraud to distract and to let the criminals keep them backward. People should think of their country and their future generations instead of defending the Wahabi Kingdom. It is people who can stop these wahabi gangs powered by petro dollars damaging all nook and corners of the country.

That is what I say what you said in bold. Change is imminent. It will come earlier if people wants otherwise it will come with Pain.

 

[wiseone2]

It shall only remain a dream. Pakistanis have been radicalized beyond repair. The wahhabism that flooded Pakistan during the 70s and 80s seems to be irreversible. There are people in this country who still support taliban due to their Islamic ideology. Terrorists like Mumtaz Qadri are labelled as heroes by freaking lawyers who are supposed to be educated. Meanwhile people who fought for minorities and human rights like Salman Taseer are labelled wajib-ul-qatal and immediately eliminated. You have terrorists like Aamir Liaquat coming on national tv and preaching that Ahmadis should be killed. A secular Pakistan would be desirable but its not realistic unless we can magically get someone like Ataturk to completely change the country through force.

I am not a Pakistani. i am surprised that the military could not wipe out the Taliban crowd